Random Hypotheticals - Clo(w)ning Around

[Ironhold]

Just some random hypotheticals to get a discussion going. 

1. You have a member of the church. They've been baptized and had their ordinances. They get cloned. Would the clone get covered under their ordinances, or would they need to be baptized and receive their ordinances themselves? 

2. Someone falls in love with their opposite-gendered clone. Are they essentially in love with themselves? 

3. Would someone be assigned to HT / VT their own clones if they live within the same ward? 

 

(Yes, I have *plenty* of time for my mind to wander when I'm at work...)

[Guest]

1. Does only one person in a set of identical twins need their ordinances done?

2. A clone cannot and would not be opposite-gendered. 

3. I don't see why not. I wonder if it would feel weird.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Eowyn

[MrShorty]

1. I think Eowyn's insight is good on this one -- just because two individuals share the same genetic profile does not make them one individual. Each individual needs their own ordinance work. Having just finished Dune Messiah, though, how would this question extend to gholas?

2. Again, I must agree with Eowyn, a clone with all the same genes (including, XX or XY chromosomes) would be the same gender as the original -- unless we want to hypothesize something happening during development that causes gender phenotype to not match gender karyotype. I would think that the impact of whatever happens to switch gender is enough to make the "clone" sufficiently different from the original that it would not be like being in love with oneself.

3. I cannot think of any reason for a rule or policy against HT/VT one's clone, or twin, or sibling. In some sense, it seems to defeat part of the purpose of the HT/VT system if families -- who should be relating and visiting each other as family -- HT/VT each other.

Where/when in this discussion do we bring in Weird Al?

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

Where/when in this discussion do we bring in Weird Al?

Would you settle for Ray Stevens?

 

 

[Guest]

@Ironhold,

You're making an assumption that the spirit and the genetics of a body are inseparably linked.  There is no reason to believe another body with identical genetics has the same spirit any more than twins (as @Eowyn said) would share the same spirit.

[MrShorty]

10 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Would you settle for Ray Stevens?

Ray Stevens is good, though there is a difference, I think, between the convolution of geneology that could cause one to be his own grandpa and what life might be like if there were "always two of [you] just a hanging arou-ound."

[bytebear]

A clone still begins as a tiny life, and grows, independent of the other. It's just like creating an identical twin but at a different time.  Identical twins do not share ordinances or lives.

[Ironhold]

The original idea I had was for a science fiction comedy series. 

There's an organization that sends people into the past to obtain records of historical events, particularly in areas where the historical record is sparse. Some people are merely sent back to record individual incidents, while others may be given long-running missions where they're sent back in time to record everything broadcast by a particular television station or all episodes of a "historically and culturally significant" television show*. The former are brought back to the present day once their job is done, while the latter are essentially deep-cover operatives who live as a regular member of society by day. 

Well, a guy who has the ability to clone himself at his leisure is tapped for the program, as his clones present a ready source of archivists who can be sent back in time. Since they're clones, the powers-that-be believe them to be more expendable than regular individuals. 

Thing is, the guy's a member of the church, and so his clones gravitate towards membership in the church if that's an option where the are. 

...Which is making a hash out of the membership records, as for every clone that joins the church *after* being sent back, that bumps the membership numbers up by one, subtly changing history. 

 

 

*In reality, much of the footage from the early days of television is permanently gone. Many events were broadcast live and so were simply never recorded, while many taped shows were destroyed in an effort to either recycle the metal content of the tape or obtain insurance money from their destruction; other taped shows, meanwhile, were simply taped over to save on costs. There are entire early television series where all that's left are individual episodes. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

The original idea I had was for a science fiction comedy series.

There was an episode of Star Trek: DS9 where Narys went to the darker parallel dimension and met herself (who happened to be a somewhat psychotic tyrant who ran the station with an iron fist.  This doppelganger ended up falling in love with herself (yes, homosexually so).  Interesting episode.

[Blackmarch]

On 2/25/2017 at 5:18 PM, Ironhold said:

Just some random hypotheticals to get a discussion going. 

1. You have a member of the church. They've been baptized and had their ordinances. They get cloned. Would the clone get covered under their ordinances, or would they need to be baptized and receive their ordinances themselves? 

2. Someone falls in love with their opposite-gendered clone. Are they essentially in love with themselves? 

3. Would someone be assigned to HT / VT their own clones if they live within the same ward? 

 

(Yes, I have *plenty* of time for my mind to wander when I'm at work...)

1. they'd have to get their own.
2. no.
3. yes

[Vort]

On 2/25/2017 at 4:18 PM, Ironhold said:

2. Someone falls in love with their opposite-gendered clone. Are they essentially in love with themselves? 

I can think of a possible way this could happen: Suppose a man had a 23rd (sex) chromosome that had no deleterious genetic sequences. Suppose that two clones were made of this man: One with his existing genome as is, and one with the existing genome, but with the Y chromosome replaced by a copy of the 23rd X chromosome. The result would be a female clone of the man, in the sense that her genome comes directly and completely from the host.

Of course, it would be a poor idea for the two clones to attempt to reproduce, since any existing deleterious genes would stand a much greater chance of pairing up. But honestly, the danger of "incestuous" genetic problems has been vastly overstated for most modern people. If you lived in an ancient village (or a royal family) where cousins have been marrying for generations in your ancestry, then yes, you should probably stay away from very close relatives, such as siblings and clones. In our modern age, though it's still a pretty poor idea, it's not nearly the danger that it has been in many past situations.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Vort

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Vort said:

I can think of a possible way this could happen: Suppose a man had a 23rd (sex) chromosome that had no deleterious genetic sequences. Suppose that two clones were made of this man: One with his existing genome as is, and one with the existing genome, but with the Y chromosome replaced by a copy of the 23rd X chromosome. The result would be a female clone of the man, in the sense that her genome comes directly and completely from the host.

Of course, it would be a poor idea for the two clones to attempt to reproduce, since any existing deleterious genes would stand a much greater chance of pairing up. But honestly, the danger of "incestuous" genetic problems has been vastly overstated for most modern people. If you lived in an ancient village (or a royal family) where cousins have been marrying for generations in your ancestry, then yes, you should probably stay away from very close relatives, such as siblings and clones. In our modern age, though it's still a pretty poor idea, it's not nearly the danger that it has been in many past situations.

 

 

[Vort]

29 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

To be fair, the OP was questions about clones and cloning, so my response was appropriate to that line of thought.

[Guest]

Your answer made me feel dumb is all, so I took the bully route.