Heavenly Mother

onyx · September 24, 2007

Sincere thank you to John Doe and Old Tex.

Quoting John Doe:

“.....unless it is brought before the body of the church by the sitting prophet of the Lord and voted upon as doctrine, it would not be binding upon the church as doctrine.”

Quoting Old Tex:

"........It was written immediately following the close of the conference; on October 31, 1918, it was submitted to the counselors in the First Presidency, the Council of the Twelve, and the Patriarch, and it was unanimously accepted by them."

Your straightforward and simple responses have clearly answered my questions:

What defines doctrine?

What is it exactly that makes a teaching/concept/belief doctrine?

Is there a process or means by which something becomes or is made LDS doctrine?

Very much appreciated guys...Onyx

Quoting Gaia:

"Someone asked for references to Joseph Smith's Vision of Heavenly Mother --

Here is that informaiton:"

Hi Gaia,

I was one who asked for the references....as I was interested in reading the account.

Thanks for posting it.

An awesome vision, to be sure.

Could you please go one step further and provide the source document etc.

Thanks so much...Onyx

sorry folks...

I'm not quite sure what happened there.

They were supposed to be two different posts for the sake of simplicity.

Somehow they became merged.

Then it was just this huge repeating thing.

So, I've edited it back to what I was originally trying to do ok?

Onyx.

sixpacktr · September 24, 2007

Gaia, thanks for the quotes. I found them interesting, but noted that they are two different accounts of the same vision. In one, as you noted, it referred to Adam and Eve, and in the other as the Father, Mother, and Son.

It really doesn't prove anything to me, in that it states, from the same vision, two different things.

But I did find it interesting, and had not heard of those visions before.

a-train · September 24, 2007

We must understand that this life is but a short stage in our eternal development and only a preparation for the world to come, and that 'now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.' (1 Cor. 13:12) Certainly I believe that after a deep study of the scriptures and revelations of the prophets, we possess only a general notion of God and His Great Enterprizes. Eye hath not seen nor ear heard those things.

It is truth that we have a Heavenly Mother, but we are here in the telestial realm working out our salvation and we do not have the presence of our Heavenly Parentage with us. The worst mistake we can make is to proceed through this darkness trusting in our own wisdom rather than the revelation of God. We have NOT been commanded to pray to our Heavenly Mother. The LORD has NOT demonstrated Her as our Example. For that matter, NOT even the Father has been our Example. The LORD Jesus Christ is our Example.

As far as I am aware, we possess no record of Christ's teachings of our Heavenly Mother and the depth of our understanding there is simply that we know She exists. We need not worry about her here in this world. I assume She is indeed waiting for our return with motherly love and tenderness, but we are not granted the privilege of Her support here. We do NOT hear from Her in this life.

However, this is NOT to be understood that She is silently locked away in the Celestial Kitchen baking cookies and washing dishes for her endless posterity. I have no doubt that Her work and glory is not only wonderful beyond all we now comprehend, but we must never forget that She is ONE with the Father. To speak ill of Her or the Father, it is the same. The notion that Her relative secrecy in this world is due in part to some protective measure to keep Her name out of the muck would NOT be one for Her protection but for ours. How will we feel when we return to her and report that we spoke ill of her while we were away? This may hurt Her, but I doubt it will damage Her anywhere near what it will do to US.

Let us be happy to know what we know and make certain we follow it and if we do we will eventually know all things, including our Heavenly Mother. But while we are in this short temporal life, we must not look beyond the mark. We are here to follow the Saviour and worship Him. He has taught us to pray unto the Father in His name. We are to do all these things and have patience and faith that we will one day know more.

-a-train

sixpacktr · September 24, 2007

We must understand that this life is but a short stage in our eternal development and only a preparation for the world to come, and that 'now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.' (1 Cor. 13:12) Certainly I believe that after a deep study of the scriptures and revelations of the prophets, we possess only a general notion of God and His Great Enterprizes. Eye hath not seen nor ear heard those things.
It is truth that we have a Heavenly Mother, but we are here in the telestial realm working out our salvation and we do not have the presence of our Heavenly Parentage with us. The worst mistake we can make is to proceed through this darkness trusting in our own wisdom rather than the revelation of God. We have NOT been commanded to pray to our Heavenly Mother. The LORD has NOT demonstrated Her as our Example. For that matter, NOT even the Father has been our Example. The LORD Jesus Christ is our Example.
As far as I am aware, we possess no record of Christ's teachings of our Heavenly Mother and the depth of our understanding there is simply that we know She exists. We need not worry about her here in this world. I assume She is indeed waiting for our return with motherly love and tenderness, but we are not granted the privilege of Her support here. We do NOT hear from Her in this life.
However, this is NOT to be understood that She is silently locked away in the Celestial Kitchen baking cookies and washing dishes for her endless posterity. I have no doubt that Her work and glory is not only wonderful beyond all we now comprehend, but we must never forget that She is ONE with the Father. To speak ill of Her or the Father, it is the same. The notion that Her relative secrecy in this world is due in part to some protective measure to keep Her name out of the muck would NOT be one for Her protection but for ours. How will we feel when we return to her and report that we spoke ill of her while we were away? This may hurt Her, but I doubt it will damage Her anywhere near what it will do to US.
Let us be happy to know what we know and make certain we follow it and if we do we will eventually know all things, including our Heavenly Mother. But while we are in this short temporal life, we must not look beyond the mark. We are here to follow the Saviour and worship Him. He has taught us to pray unto the Father in His name. We are to do all these things and have patience and faith that we will one day know more.
-a-train

Beautifully put, a-train.

Let me add just one thing to that, which is the scripture you alluded to:

14 But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.

(Jacob 4:14)

We always need to be careful what we wish for...

Old Tex · September 24, 2007

We must understand that this life is but a short stage in our eternal development and only a preparation for the world to come, and that 'now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.' (1 Cor. 13:12) Certainly I believe that after a deep study of the scriptures and revelations of the prophets, we possess only a general notion of God and His Great Enterprizes. Eye hath not seen nor ear heard those things.
It is truth that we have a Heavenly Mother, but we are here in the telestial realm working out our salvation and we do not have the presence of our Heavenly Parentage with us. The worst mistake we can make is to proceed through this darkness trusting in our own wisdom rather than the revelation of God. We have NOT been commanded to pray to our Heavenly Mother. The LORD has NOT demonstrated Her as our Example. For that matter, NOT even the Father has been our Example. The LORD Jesus Christ is our Example.
As far as I am aware, we possess no record of Christ's teachings of our Heavenly Mother and the depth of our understanding there is simply that we know She exists. We need not worry about her here in this world. I assume She is indeed waiting for our return with motherly love and tenderness, but we are not granted the privilege of Her support here. We do NOT hear from Her in this life.
However, this is NOT to be understood that She is silently locked away in the Celestial Kitchen baking cookies and washing dishes for her endless posterity. I have no doubt that Her work and glory is not only wonderful beyond all we now comprehend, but we must never forget that She is ONE with the Father. To speak ill of Her or the Father, it is the same. The notion that Her relative secrecy in this world is due in part to some protective measure to keep Her name out of the muck would NOT be one for Her protection but for ours. How will we feel when we return to her and report that we spoke ill of her while we were away? This may hurt Her, but I doubt it will damage Her anywhere near what it will do to US.
Let us be happy to know what we know and make certain we follow it and if we do we will eventually know all things, including our Heavenly Mother. But while we are in this short temporal life, we must not look beyond the mark. We are here to follow the Saviour and worship Him. He has taught us to pray unto the Father in His name. We are to do all these things and have patience and faith that we will one day know more.
-a-train

You show a great deal of wisdom in your post, -a-train. Unfortunately this subject has caused some in the Church problems because they seemingly could not accept this same counsel that you propose in your message above. Folks who take certain positions and carry them to the radical extreme are many times consumed by them. I see those leanings on some of the posts here. I hope they are not carried so far that history repeats itself.

Alaskagain · September 24, 2007

Gaia,

Thank you for your thoughtful response to my earlier post. You were under no obligation to explain, but you did, and I appreciate your sharing the information. I am sorry that you live with pain, and hope that your condition is eased. I continue to participate in this thread by reading and considering the respectful posts, of which perhaps mine was not, and offer my apology in peace.

Gaia · September 24, 2007

Gaia, thanks for the quotes. I found them interesting, but noted that they are two different accounts of the same vision. In one, as you noted, it referred to Adam and Eve, and in the other as the Father, Mother, and Son.
It really doesn't prove anything to me, in that it states, from the same vision, two different things.
But I did find it interesting, and had not heard of those visions before.

GAIA:

Hi Sixpack; thanks for reading them.

There is an explanation -- I think it best to simply say here that the two different accounts of the same incident, refer to another controversial doctrine that was taught for many years from the pulpit and in official publications by most of the General Authoritie of the period, but HAS since been declared heretical by modern GA's *smile*.

However, i think the fact that Joseph SMith -- the Prophet at the time -- and his counselor -- did say that the vision was of Heavenly Mother, makes it relevant to this discussion.

Blessings --

~Gaia

Gaia · September 24, 2007

Gaia,
Thank you for your thoughtful response to my earlier post. You were under no obligation to explain, but you did, and I appreciate your sharing the information. I am sorry that you live with pain, and hope that your condition is eased. I continue to participate in this thread by reading and considering the respectful posts, of which perhaps mine was not, and offer my apology in peace.

Hello Alaskaagain --

Oh, please don't feel badly. As i've said, i realize that these are sensitive issues for many, and the sometimes initially negative response often has to do with previous negative experiences.

It's no secret that LDS often (unfairly) take "hits" on their doctrine and history, from non-LDS and those who persecute the church.... I can't tell you how many times i have incurred the frustrations and denunciations of such folks, because they THINK (from reading some of my posts) that i will agree with or support such behavior, and when they discover that i don't and furthermore, that i defend the Church and Gospel when i feel it's being unfairly or inaccurately attacked, they really get unhappy *rueful grin*.

So i understand that it takes some getting to know me to understand that i have a tremendous appreciation, even love, for the Church and the Gospel, while simultaneously sometimes taking issue with certain policies. I'd like to believe that it's quite possible to disagree with something, while respecting it and those who hold it dear. I do invite you all to let me know if you ever feel i fail to do that, and i promise to take your criticism seriously and prayerfully consider it, even if (at first) i disagree :) .....

Thanks for being open-minded enough to consider these things, and to respond so thoughtfully and kindly.

Blessings --

~Gaia

Gaia · September 24, 2007

Gaia,
Thanks so much for opening this thread on Mother-in-Heaven.
It is soo nice to hear about other women struggling with not knowing more about Her, as I have.
I don't pray to Her out of respect to what I have been told is the counsel of church leadership, with great sorrow, but I often hear Her name when I pray, and feel that She is real, alive, and very loving and concerned about me, as She would be for all Her Children. Thank you for all your references for reading about this subject.
I don't understand why it is so taboo to talk about Her and to want to understand Her better. I really related to your previous quotes about being cut off from her. I have struggled a lot with the feeling that being close to Her through the Spirit, as I want to be to HF, was witheld from me. Again, it brought sorrow to me. Of course, I am the one who had the congregation sing "Oh, My Father" on Mother's Day. By the way, I have also been taught that the hymns contain nothing but church doctrine, otherwise they wouldn't be in a church publicized book for worshipping in our sacrament meetings.
Anyway, thankyou for bringing up what I feel to be a worthwhile and important topic.~Dove

GAIA:

Hello Dove -- Thanks so much for your kind words.

I can't tell you how many times over the years i've heard the very same thing, from women just like you -- good, faithful women who want very much to do the right thing, who support the Brethren as they feel they should, but who at the same time, feel like Motherless children who deeply yearns for some sort of connection or communion with the other half of their (Heavenly) Parentage.

I must tell you that i've shared that yearning since i was a young investigator at BYU, learning the Gospel from some of the best minds / hearts /souls in the Church, all of whom were Priesthood-holdng men whom i so admired and to whom i looked as mentors. But I began to yearn for a good, righteous example of womanhood, to balance out my understanding and experience.....

I remember once saying to one of my mentors (a widely known expert in Church history and doctrine) --LONG before it became a question for the larger Church to have to address -- "Can i pray to Heavenly Mother? Sometimes i just feel like i need the Feminine perspective on things....."

He smiled indulgently, patted me on the hand (we had a kind of father-daughter relationship) and said, "Oh, just pray to Heavenly FAther; if He needs it, He'll get Her perspective from Heavenly MOther." Even then, while i loved and respected the man, i felt that the depth of my meaning had been misunderstood and somehow trivialized.....

I've come to understand a lot more about the dynamics of this problem, but that has not diminished my sense of often being misunderstood and trivialized whenever it's raised -- by me or someone else.

I'd like to address something else you said: With all due resepect, in fact the Hymns are not necessarily official doctrine. In fact, there are several hymns which have questionable doctrine, ....

I think the entire issue of what constitutes offical doctrine is an important one that deserves its own thread, so i will start one; i hope you'll check it out and contribute your thoughts there, OK?

Thanks again for your kind words --

Blessings --

~Gaia

MadHatter · September 24, 2007

ONLY Man and Woman together become Gods in the Celestial kingdom. they must be sealed for Time and all eternity to partake of the inheritance of the Kingdom of God.

Yes, we do in fact have a heavenly mother, just as we have a heavenly father.

The Simple fact is respect.

Our Heavenly Father did not mention her in scripture and we do not pray to her because of Respect. He repsects her so much he would rather see his name used in vain, then to have her name be known to all and have her name be defiled on earth.

In essence, we already to pray to our heavenly parents, through Jesus Christ to our Father directly. and because of the Patriarchial family unit, Heavenly Father is the Head of his family. He leads the family and takes the brunt of all disrepect for his wife, he will not allow anyone to defile his wife's 9our mother's) good name.

The Father of a family is the leader, he is to lead in righteousness along side his wife, theya re equal to eachother with no inferiority or defficiency. They are to work together as one unit to take care of and teach thier children in righteousness.

I'm very sure our heavenly father has counciled and continues to council with his wife before making decisions.

People take the Lord's name in vain all the time, it is commonplace in the world now. I know i want my wife to be protected completely and shielded from all form of disrepect and/or abuse, she is the most important thing to me.

Gaia · September 24, 2007

Our Heavenly Father did not mention her in scripture and we do not pray to her because of Respect. He repsects her so much he would rather see his name used in vain, then to have her name be known to all and have her name be defiled on earth.

GAIA:

Hello MadHatter --

That's an interesting and popular idea, but in fact, it is NOT doctrine, it's merely the thoughts of some folks, including some General Authorities -- but only as SPECULATION and NOT DOCTRINE.

And in fact, there are several reasons why it may be a nice, romantic, sentimental notion, but with all due respect, imo it just doesn't stand up to any logical or doctrinal scrutiny --

Please go back and (prayerfully) read post # 1 in this thread, if you haven't already.

Thanks and Blessings --

~Gaia

MadHatter · September 24, 2007

I appreciate your concern, and if it came out of the mouths of our general authorities, (and more than one) then that is all i need to pray about. And yes, I have. I appreciate your thoughts, but I say what i know because It is revealed through the mouths of true prophets and testified to me by the holy spirit of Truth.

Gaia · September 24, 2007

Hello All -- Especially MadHatter, Sixpack, etc --

I must apologise for my previous laziness in failing to look up and provide good, authoritative references on Heavenly Mother.....I thought it would be sufficient to provide the two links where some of those references are offered. However, i decided that was lazy and i did some research and found the following quotes. I'm quite sure they are only a mere smattering; but i think they do help us get a sense of who has taught this doctrine, and the confidence wit which they have taught it --

President Spencer W Kimball:

You women are daughters of God. You are precious. You are made in the image of our Heavenly Mother. (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982], 25.)

President Spencer W Kimball:

"Finally, when we sing that doctrinal hymn and anthem of affection, 'O My Father,' we get a sense of the ultimate in maternal modesty, of the restrained, queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here, do we suppose her influence on us as individuals to be less if we live so as to return there?"

(Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign, May 1978, p.6.)

President Harold B Lee:

Now, the fact that you and I are here in mortal bodies is evidence that we were among those who were in that great concourse of organized intelligences; we knew God, our Father. He was our Heavenly Father; we were sired by Him. We had a Heavenly Mother—can you think of having a father without a mother? That great hymn "O My Father" puts it correctly when Eliza R. Snow wrote, "In the heav'ns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare! Truth is reason; truth eternal tells me I've a mother there." Born of a Heavenly Mother, sired by a Heavenly Father, we knew Him, we were in His house, and we knew His illustrious Son, who was to come here and redeem mankind as a part of the plan of salvation. What did He mean, then, when He said, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent"? (John 17:3.) It is to regain that knowledge, then, and to go back where we once were that becomes the great quest of all of us.

(Harold B. Lee, The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, edited by Clyde J. Williams [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1996], 22.)

President Spencer W Kimball:

Men and women in the image of heavenly parents. God made man in his own image and certainly he made woman in the image of his wife-partner. (72-02)

Heavenly MotherDaughters of GodMan, Physical Creation ofa-Kimball, Spencer W.TPYou [women] are daughters of God. You are precious. You are made in the image of our heavenly Mother. (72-08)

(Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, edited by Edward L. Kimball [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982], 25.)

Apostle George Q Cannon:

I heard President Smith say that he attended a concert given by our Tabernacle choir at the World's fair, in Chicago; and one of the songs, "O My Father," was sung by Robert C. Easton. When it came to the part, "Truth is reason, truth eternal, Tells me I've a mother there," a man sitting by, said, "I have believed that all my life, but I daren't say so." Well, we dare say it and have said it all over the world. The sister who, by the inspiration of the Spirit of God, wrote that hymn, gave to each one of the good sisters in that Relief society meeting a blessing. Zina D. Young gave the interpretation. After this blessing had been given to each of the good sisters, Sister Snow turned to the child on the floor and gave him a blessing, and Aunt Zina interpreted it, and the blessing was a prediction that I should live to occupy the position that I am occupying here today as one of the leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am the recipient of a blessing predicted by the gift of tongues and fulfilled twenty years afterward. I could go on and relate incident after incident of a like character.

(George C. Lambert [George Q. Cannon], Gems of Reminiscence: Faith-Promoting Series, no. 17 [salt Lake City: Juvenile Instructor Office, 1915], 102.)

Apostle Milton R Hunter:

When light burst forth from heaven in revelations to the Prophet Joseph Smith, a more complete understanding of man—especially regarding his personal relationship to Deity—was received than could be found in all of the holy scriptures combined. The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, as well as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology. A complete realization that we are the offspring of Heavenly Parents—that we were begotten and born into the spirit world and grew to maturity in that realm—became an integral part of Mormon philosophy. Those verities are basic in the Gospel plan of eternal progression.

The prophets of our dispensation have clearly explained the doctrine of heavenly parenthood. In the words of President Joseph F. Smith, and his counselors, John R. Winder and Anthon H. Lund: "Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of Heavenly Parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal body to undergo an experience in mortality." fn President Brigham Young read the two verses in Genesis 1:26-27, which declared that God created man, and then he told the congregation:

I believe that the declaration made in these scriptures is literally true. God has made His children like Himself to stand erect, and has endowed them with intelligence and power and dominion over all His works, and given them the same attributes which He Himself possesses. He created men, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven or on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be. fn

(Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel through the Ages [salt Lake City: Stevens & Wallis, Inc., 1945], 98 - 99.)

Apstle Milton R Hunter:

Later Joseph explained what the revelation meant by the statement, "Which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever." He explained that the Gods were to be parents of spirit children just as our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother were the parents of the people of this earth. To quote his own words:

Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection. But those who are married by the power and authority of the Priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory. fn

Thus we see that celestial marriage is the crowning Gospel ordinance. If men and women have obeyed this holy ordinance and all the other principles of the Gospel, following the resurrection and the great judgment day, "then shall they be Gods."

(Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel through the Ages [salt Lake City: Stevens & Wallis, Inc., 1945], 120.)

Apostle Neal Maxwell - Ensign:

When we return to our real home, it will be with the "mutual approbation" of those who reign in the "royal courts on high." There we will find beauty such as mortal "eye hath not seen"; we will hear sounds of surpassing music which mortal "ear hath not heard." Could such a regal homecoming be possible without the anticipatory arrangements of a Heavenly Mother? (Ensign, May 1978, p. 11.)

(Cory H. Maxwell, ed., The Neal A. Maxwell Quote Book [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997], 238.)

Elder Eldred G Smith - BYU Speeches of the Year:

Of course I did not say someone resurrected from this earth. The only one I know of who has been resurrected and had children-that I know of-is my Father in heaven and my Mother in heaven. You could not have a Father in heaven without a Mother in heaven.

So our Father in heaven must have gone through a life of mortality and become resurrected, and we have to have a Mother in heaven, because we could not have a Father without a Mother at any time, in any life. We were their children born after their resurrection. Before we came on this earth, we were personages of spirit.

(Elder Eldred G. Smith, March 10, 1964, BYU Speeches of the Year, 1964 6.)

Apostle JOseph Fielding Smith:

A Mother in Heaven

Question: "Will you please give us the background of the 'theory' advanced of 'a Mother in Heaven'? Some feel that God is great enough to create spirits without any assistance, and if not, why then was not a Mother mentioned among the Godhead?"

Mother in Heaven/It may be true that the Bible does not speak of a mother in heaven, nor does the Doctrine and Covenants when speaking of the revelations of the Lord to the Church. Permit me to call attention to the fact that mothers and wives are seldom mentioned in the Bible, although they are on certain occasions. The fact that there is no reference to a mother in heaven either in the Bible, Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants, is not sufficient proof that no such thing as a mother did exist there. If we had a Father, which we did, for all of these records speak of him, then does not good common sense tell us that we must have had a mother there also?

Mother in Heaven/When we stop to think of it, there are passages which strongly imply that we did have a mother there. Let me call your attention to some passages of scripture. First, Paul speaking to the Greeks on Mars Hill had this to say:

Mother in Heaven/For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (Acts 17:28.)

(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 3: 144.)

JOseph Fielding McConkie and Robert Millet: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Fielding_McConkie

Eve was chosen to stand at Michael's side. She was a companion of "like stature, capacity, and intelligence," as Elder McConkie wrote.fn Through the extended schooling of eternity, Eve had proven herself worthy in every particular. Though we have not been given her premortal name, we know she was one like unto or after the pattern of the heavenly mother. We conclude, then, that Eve, by endowment and preparation, corresponded in all things to Michael. She was his completion.

(Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, eds., The Man Adam [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1990], 91.)

Apostle Jeffrey HOlland - (BYU President): - See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffery_R._Holland

I have heard it said by some that the reason women in the Church struggle somewhat to know themselves is because they don't have a divine female role model. But we do. We believe we have a mother in heaven. President Spencer W. Kimball declared in a general conference address: "When we sing that doctrinal hymn . . . 'O My Father,' we get a sense of the ultimate in maternal modesty, of the restrained, queenly elegance of our heavenly mother, and, knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here, do we suppose her influence on us as individuals to be less?" (Ensign, May 1978, p. 4.)

(Jeffrey R. Holland and Patricia T. Holland, On Earth As It Is in Heaven [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989], 91.)

Apostle Russell M Ballard -- See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Russell_Ballard

"Families on earth are an extension of the family of God. According to the LDS concept of the family, every person is a child of heavenly parents as well as mortal parents. Each individual was created spiritually and physically in the image of God and Christ (Moses 2:27; 3:5). The First Presidency has declared, 'All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity' (Messages of the First Presidency, 4:203). Everyone, before coming to this earth, lived with Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, and each was loved and taught by them as a member of their eternal family." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:486-87.)

Our Heavenly Parents' love and concern for us continues to this very moment. In our wonderful, pre-earth home we had the opportunity to learn many eternal truths. Our Heavenly Father wanted us to develop every godly quality, for He knew that although each of us is unique, we all have within us the seeds of godhood. Indeed, we yearned to be like Him. But He understood that we could only progress to a certain point without the wisdom of experience through mortality, including the trials and temptations that come to all of us as a direct result of our physical bodies. Therefore our Father's plan was created to help us reach our full potential. It would be difficult and sometimes painful—for Him, perhaps, as well as for us. But He knew it was the only way His children could grow and improve.

(M. Russell Ballard, Our Search for Happiness: An Invitation to Understand The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1993], 70.)

BYU Studies:

While we come to Christ as individuals, the paradox is that women and men who have endured to the end and overcome the world must be exalted jointly as wives and husbands, following the pattern of our heavenly parents (D&C 131:2). The scriptural promise of exaltation to husbands and wives contained in D&C 132:19-20 is also a description of the current life of our heavenly parents, who are explicitly characterized as sharing "a fulness" (D&C 132:19):

Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. (D&C 132:20; italics added)

From this scripture, one may extrapolate that Heavenly Mother is a full and equal partner to Heavenly Father even though our knowledge of her is incomplete. fn Additionally, General Authorities have repeatedly spoken of the eternal relationship between husbands and wives as that of "equal partners." President Spencer W. Kimball has noted:

Marriage is a partnership. Each is given a part of the work of life to do.... When we speak of marriage as a partnership, let us speak of marriage as a full partnership. We do not want our LDS women to be silent partners or limited partners in the eternal assignment! Please be a contributing and full partner. fn

(Feminism in the Light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, BYU Studies, vol. 36 (1996-97), Number 2--1996-97 .)

(Dawn Anderson, Dlora Dalton, and Susette Green - BYU Women's Conference:

See http://mormonlit.lib.byu.edu/lit_work.php?w_id=4916

Some time in the distant past, we were born spiritually. Before that we were intelligences. As spirit children, male and female, we lived with our heavenly parents in the celestial kingdom. If we were with God and our heavenly mother in the celestial kingdom, what ever would have possessed us to leave? Isn't that what we are after—to be back in the celestial kingdom with God? So why did we have to leave? This is a very important point. Most of the Christian world's idea of heaven is to return to live with God, but we believe there is something far more significant. Not only do we want to live with God, we want to be like God. That is what eternal life, God's life, means. What was God like when we were there living with him in the celestial kingdom? Three things are significant. First, he had a glorified, immortal, physical body. We did not; we were only spirits. Second, he had a divine nature, every attribute in absolute perfection. We did not. Third, he had an eternal wife, and they were able to have eternal children. Thus we were living with God in heaven, but we certainly were not like him.

To move forward, to become like God, we had to have a body. Having a body is not just an incidental by-product of mortality. It is one of its central purposes. Until we can be connected with a physical, elemental body, we cannot have a fulness of joy (see D&C 93:33-34). In addition, to be like God, we have to acquire divine attributes. Those two objectives brought us to earth. As I understand it, to prove ourselves, we needed four things: first, an imperfect world; second, a mortal body that could endure sickness, irritation, tiredness, and other ills so that we could gain experience; third, agency, for without choice there is no morality; and fourth, opposition, as Lehi explained (see 2 Ne. 2:11), because we can't exercise agency with nothing to choose between and no conflicting enticements toward good or evil. The Fall was necessary to gain a battlefield, and thus began the plan of God. In scriptural terms life comes down to one word: warfare. Metaphors of war—from "put on the armor of righteousness" (2 Ne. 1:23) to "rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise" (Micah 7:8)—are found everywhere in scripture. The Spirit helps us in many ways—instructing, comforting, and strengthening us—but the ultimate battle is absolutely individual. It is not a team event. It is not a spectator sport.

(Dawn Anderson, Dlora Dalton, and Susette Green, eds., Every Good Thing: Talks from the 1997 BYU Women’s Conference [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1998], 274.)

Roy Doxey -- (ROY W. DOXEY (1908-1992) was widely known throughout the Church as a great teacher of latter-day scripture. Some of his other works include The Doctrine and Covenants Speaks (a two volume work), The Doctrine and Covenants and the Future, and Prophecies and Prophetic Promises from the Doctrine and Covenants. Doxey served as dean of Religious Instruction at BYU and as director of correlation for The Church. He presided over the Eastern States Mission and was a Regional Representative of the Council of the Twelve.)

"In the premortal world the plan of salvation was formed whereby the spirit sons and daughters of God could receive an earth life necessary for eternal progression. The relationship between God and his children was a parent-child relationship because his spirit children were born of a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. (Youth and the Church, pp. 126-27.) The eternal round of spirit children being born to exalted beings and the opportunity to reach the heights of exaltation by an earth life require marriage for eternity by mortals. Faithfulness to eternal marriage covenants is a means of proving oneself as a part of the eternal plan.

(Roy W. Doxey, The Doctrine and Covenants Speaks [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1964], 2: 426.)

Daniel H Ludlow: (Dean of BYU Religion Department)

According to the LDS concept of the family, every person is a child of heavenly parents as well as mortal parents. Each individual was created spiritually and physically in the image of God and Christ (Moses 2:27; 3:5). The First Presidency has declared, "All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity" (MFP 4:203). Everyone, before coming to this earth, lived with Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, and each was loved and taught by them as a member of their eternal family (see Premortal Life). Birth unites the spirit with a physical body so that together they can "receive a fulness of joy" (D&C 93:33; cf. 2 Ne. 2:25).

(Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1-4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 486.)

Improvement Era:

O MY FATHER," by Eliza R. Snow, is considered one of the greatest of all Latter-day Saint hymns, because of its unusual doctrinal content, especially that contained in the third stanza. This remarkable verse projects a new thought into religious philosophy; namely, that we have a heavenly mother in the courts on high.

The hymn was written during a period of exciting conditions that finally had their tragic ending in the death of the Prophet and Patriarch. According to Orson F. Whitney, Eliza's marriage to the Prophet took place June 29, 1842. "O My Father" was written in 1843. So the poetess wrote it while she was the Prophet's wife. She was also a governess in his family. This close companionship gave her abundant opportunity to discuss with the Prophet many great and important things "pertaining to the kingdom of God."

It was during this period that Zina D. Huntington (afterwards Zina D. Young) was grieved over an unusual circumstance. Her mother, who had died some time before, had been buried in a temporary grave and it became necessary to remove the body to a permanent resting place. When the remains were exhumed it was discovered that they were partially petrified. It seemed to Zina as if the very foundation of the doctrine of the resurrection crumbled. To the question "Shall I know my mother when I meet her in the world beyond?" the Prophet responded emphatically "Yes, you will know your mother there." A firm believer in Joseph's divine mission, Zina D. Young was comforted by the promise. From the discussions on the resurrection and the relationship of man to Deity, no doubt came the inspiration to Eliza R. Snow for the writing of "O My Father." The poem was written in the home of Stephen Markham and was penned on a wooden chest, the only table available in her meagerly furnished room.

The hymn is in four stanzas and is an epitome of the great drama of eternal life as revealed by the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

(O My Father by Eliza R. Snow, Improvement Era, 1936, Vol. Xxxix. May, 1936. No. 5. .)

LDS Women's Treasury:

What about the concept of a divine Woman, a Heavenly Mother? Joseph Smith suggested that the logic of the revealed gospel requires a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father.<#>5 It is not surprising that Mormon women cherish the concept. A divine Mother represents a final destination for daughters, someone with whom they can identify fully and without ambiguity.

But even though we have the idea of a Heavenly Mother to whom women can relate without ambiguity, we still have a problem. Our concept of the divine Woman is itself ambiguous. Our scriptural stories give no accounts of her activities, no clues to her personality. Our theology contains no doctrine about how to relate to her.

We are tempted to fill the vacuum with images of a heavenly woman drawn from the earthly condition of women. We envision, perhaps, a nurturing figure devoted to innumerable spirit children but withdrawn from the wider realm of cosmic government. I remember a Primary class, in which someone asked the teacher, "If we have a Mother in Heaven, how come we never hear about her?" The teacher's reply was that God was protecting her name from the kinds of slander that human beings direct toward the names of the Father and the Son. It was a clever reply, and, at the time, we all thought it was quite satisfying. None of us realized then that this answer described a lady not quite up to taking care of herself in a tough world, an image drawn purely from certain human conventions and not from divine reality.

(LDS Women’s Treasury: Insights and Inspiration for Today’s Woman [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1997], 55 - 56.)

Victor Ludlow: (BYU Religion Dean)

A Heavenly Mother shares parenthood with the Heavenly Father. This concept leads Latter-day Saints to believe that she is like him in glory, perfection, compassion, wisdom, and holiness." fn

Premortal Life/This understanding helps explain a puzzling passage in Genesis that describes God as creating mankind "male and female" in the image of the Divine. One modern translation of the key verse reads: "God created human beings in his own image; in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." (Gen. 1:27, Revised English Bible.) A statement of the First Presidency of the Church clarifies that each spirit personage "was begotten and born of heavenly parents" as "offspring of celestial parentage." It also teaches that "all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity." fn Thus, we are all the spirit children of God.

(Victor L. Ludlow, Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1992], 145.)

Robert J Matthews: - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._Matthews

1. Men and women are the actual spirit children of heavenly parents. We have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother who are the parents of our spirits; thus all mankind are brothers and sisters.

(Robert J. Matthews, Selected Writings of Robert J. Matthews: Gospel Scholars Series [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1999], 494.)

Hugh NIbley:

In the Acts of Thomas: "To the wedding feast I have been invited, and I have put on white garments. May I be worthy of them. May I remember to keep my light bright that I may keep its oil," etc. fn Another very important writing is the so-called Gospel of Truth, discovered in Egypt, one of the Nag Hammadi papyri: "The word of the Father clothes everyone from top to bottom, purifies, and makes them fit to come back into the presence of their Father and their heavenly mother." fn And there are many other examples.

(Hugh Nibley, Temple and Cosmos: Beyond This Ignorant Present, edited by Don E. Norton [salt Lake City and Provo: Deseret Book Co., Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1992], 122.)

Chieko Okazaki (1st Counselor in RS Presidency) - See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chieko_N._Okazaki

Answers to such questions in the gospel make it easier to accept and live through our painful moments. Every human being who was ever born on the earth—you, me, all of our parents, all of our children, everyone—assembled in a great council in heaven before the creation of this earth to discuss the next step. We believe that a central core of personality, identity, and self-awareness is eternal and has always existed, but already we had experienced one major change. We had received spirit bodies by being born into the eternal family of our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother as their spirit children; their firstborn in the spirit was Jesus Christ. We know that we understood more during the council in heaven than we do now. We know that we saw differently, saw with clarity how the trials of mortality were linked to a love of the Savior and of our Heavenly Father.

(Chieko Okazaki, Sanctuary [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1997], 153.)

Dawn Hall Anderson and Marie Cornwall:

What about the concept of a divine Woman, a Heavenly Mother? Joseph Smith suggested that the logic of the revealed gospel requires a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father. fn It is not surprising that Mormon women cherish the concept. A divine Mother represents a final destination for daughters, someone with whom they can identify fully and without ambiguity.

But even though we have the idea of a Heavenly Mother to whom women can relate without ambiguity, we still have a problem. Our concept of the divine Woman is itself ambiguous. Our scriptural stories give no accounts of her activities, no clues to her personality. Our theology contains no doctrine about how to relate to her.

We are tempted to fill the vacuum with images of a heavenly woman drawn from the earthly condition of women. We envision, perhaps, a nurturing figure devoted to innumerable spirit children but withdrawn from the wider realm of cosmic government. I remember a Primary class, in which someone asked the teacher, "If we have a Mother in Heaven, how come we never hear about her?" The teacher's reply was that God was protecting her name from the kinds of slander that human beings direct toward the names of the Father and the Son. It was a clever reply, and, at the time, we all thought it was quite satisfying. None of us realized then that this answer described a lady not quite up to taking care of herself in a tough world, an image drawn purely from certain human conventions and not from divine reality.

(Dawn Hall Anderson and Marie Cornwall, eds., Women Steadfast in Christ: Talks Selected from the 1991 Women's Conference Co-Sponsored by Brigha m Young University and the Relief Society [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1992], 95.)

BYU Women's Conference:

We are taught in the gospel of Jesus Christ that to achieve godhood and become like our Father and Mother in Heaven means to grow in righteousness to the point that our desires and actions have become aligned with Theirs, that we do what we do, not because we have to or because we are commanded to, but because we want to, because that is our choice! That ideal state cannot be reached without our exercising agency.

(As Women of Faith: Talks Selected from the BYU Women's Conferences [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989], 214.)

Truman Madsen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_G._Madsen

We have (and this is only a footnote) spoken, oh so cautiously, of a heavenly mother. Traditional Christianity, following the Romans, has placed a mother in heaven. She has been, says the dogma, assumed bodily into heaven. fn (And I said humorously to my friend, the Jesuit, "That's exactly what she was--assumed into heaven.") They have said that Mary, the mother of Christ, was in some ways co-redemptress with Christ and is the intimate Channel for out communion with the divine. fn We do not want to follow that form. But we have from the beginning said there are two, there is God and Goddess, in the ultimate scheme of things.

(Are Christians Mormon? Fn by Truman G. Madsen Fn, BYU Studies, vol. 15 (1974-1975), Number 1 - Autumn 1974 89.)

sixpacktr · September 25, 2007

Okay Gaia,

I read thru most of the notes. It confirmed what I already have stated: that I believe this.

My contention this morning was that 2 people wrote two different accounts of the same vision: one stating it was Eve, the other HM. I find that dubious at best. Not that the vision happened. Not that it was even HM or Eve. But that people, remembering something that had happened 50 years before, we interpreting the same vision differently. Kind of like the story about Onandega, the skeleton that was found in Illinois. There are several different accounts of the same occasion, so none of them are trustworthy as doctrine. I tried to find the account of these visions today in the JS History of the Church, and they weren't there. It would have been nice for JS to have recorded these as well, but...

I guess my question is this: in light of all of this, what is your concern? That we don't pray to HM? That we don't have talks about her? What exactly is it you are looking for?

Thanks.

onyx · September 25, 2007

Hello All -- Especially MadHatter, Sixpack, etc --
I must apologise for my previous laziness in failing to look up and provide good, authoritative references on Heavenly Mother.....I thought it would be sufficient to provide the two links where some of those references are offered. However, i decided that was lazy and i did some research and found the following quotes. I'm quite sure they are only a mere smattering; but i think they do help us get a sense of who has taught this doctrine, and the confidence wit which they have taught it --
President Spencer W Kimball:
You women are daughters of God. You are precious. You are made in the image of our Heavenly Mother. (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982], 25.)
President Spencer W Kimball:
"Finally, when we sing that doctrinal hymn and anthem of affection, 'O My Father,' we get a sense of the ultimate in maternal modesty, of the restrained, queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here, do we suppose her influence on us as individuals to be less if we live so as to return there?"
(Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign, May 1978, p.6.)
President Harold B Lee:
Now, the fact that you and I are here in mortal bodies is evidence that we were among those who were in that great concourse of organized intelligences; we knew God, our Father. He was our Heavenly Father; we were sired by Him. We had a Heavenly Mother—can you think of having a father without a mother? That great hymn "O My Father" puts it correctly when Eliza R. Snow wrote, "In the heav'ns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare! Truth is reason; truth eternal tells me I've a mother there." Born of a Heavenly Mother, sired by a Heavenly Father, we knew Him, we were in His house, and we knew His illustrious Son, who was to come here and redeem mankind as a part of the plan of salvation. What did He mean, then, when He said, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent"? (John 17:3.) It is to regain that knowledge, then, and to go back where we once were that becomes the great quest of all of us.
(Harold B. Lee, The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, edited by Clyde J. Williams [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1996], 22.)
President Spencer W Kimball:
Men and women in the image of heavenly parents. God made man in his own image and certainly he made woman in the image of his wife-partner. (72-02)
Heavenly MotherDaughters of GodMan, Physical Creation ofa-Kimball, Spencer W.TPYou [women] are daughters of God. You are precious. You are made in the image of our heavenly Mother. (72-08)
(Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, edited by Edward L. Kimball [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982], 25.)
Apostle George Q Cannon:
I heard President Smith say that he attended a concert given by our Tabernacle choir at the World's fair, in Chicago; and one of the songs, "O My Father," was sung by Robert C. Easton. When it came to the part, "Truth is reason, truth eternal, Tells me I've a mother there," a man sitting by, said, "I have believed that all my life, but I daren't say so." Well, we dare say it and have said it all over the world. The sister who, by the inspiration of the Spirit of God, wrote that hymn, gave to each one of the good sisters in that Relief society meeting a blessing. Zina D. Young gave the interpretation. After this blessing had been given to each of the good sisters, Sister Snow turned to the child on the floor and gave him a blessing, and Aunt Zina interpreted it, and the blessing was a prediction that I should live to occupy the position that I am occupying here today as one of the leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am the recipient of a blessing predicted by the gift of tongues and fulfilled twenty years afterward. I could go on and relate incident after incident of a like character.
(George C. Lambert [George Q. Cannon], Gems of Reminiscence: Faith-Promoting Series, no. 17 [salt Lake City: Juvenile Instructor Office, 1915], 102.)
Apostle Milton R Hunter:
When light burst forth from heaven in revelations to the Prophet Joseph Smith, a more complete understanding of man—especially regarding his personal relationship to Deity—was received than could be found in all of the holy scriptures combined. The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, as well as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology. A complete realization that we are the offspring of Heavenly Parents—that we were begotten and born into the spirit world and grew to maturity in that realm—became an integral part of Mormon philosophy. Those verities are basic in the Gospel plan of eternal progression.
The prophets of our dispensation have clearly explained the doctrine of heavenly parenthood. In the words of President Joseph F. Smith, and his counselors, John R. Winder and Anthon H. Lund: "Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of Heavenly Parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal body to undergo an experience in mortality." fn President Brigham Young read the two verses in Genesis 1:26-27, which declared that God created man, and then he told the congregation:
I believe that the declaration made in these scriptures is literally true. God has made His children like Himself to stand erect, and has endowed them with intelligence and power and dominion over all His works, and given them the same attributes which He Himself possesses. He created men, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven or on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be. fn
(Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel through the Ages [salt Lake City: Stevens & Wallis, Inc., 1945], 98 - 99.)
Apstle Milton R Hunter:
Later Joseph explained what the revelation meant by the statement, "Which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever." He explained that the Gods were to be parents of spirit children just as our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother were the parents of the people of this earth. To quote his own words:
Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection. But those who are married by the power and authority of the Priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory. fn
Thus we see that celestial marriage is the crowning Gospel ordinance. If men and women have obeyed this holy ordinance and all the other principles of the Gospel, following the resurrection and the great judgment day, "then shall they be Gods."
(Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel through the Ages [salt Lake City: Stevens & Wallis, Inc., 1945], 120.)
Apostle Neal Maxwell - Ensign:
When we return to our real home, it will be with the "mutual approbation" of those who reign in the "royal courts on high." There we will find beauty such as mortal "eye hath not seen"; we will hear sounds of surpassing music which mortal "ear hath not heard." Could such a regal homecoming be possible without the anticipatory arrangements of a Heavenly Mother? (Ensign, May 1978, p. 11.)
(Cory H. Maxwell, ed., The Neal A. Maxwell Quote Book [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997], 238.)
Elder Eldred G Smith - BYU Speeches of the Year:
Of course I did not say someone resurrected from this earth. The only one I know of who has been resurrected and had children-that I know of-is my Father in heaven and my Mother in heaven. You could not have a Father in heaven without a Mother in heaven.
So our Father in heaven must have gone through a life of mortality and become resurrected, and we have to have a Mother in heaven, because we could not have a Father without a Mother at any time, in any life. We were their children born after their resurrection. Before we came on this earth, we were personages of spirit.
(Elder Eldred G. Smith, March 10, 1964, BYU Speeches of the Year, 1964 6.)
Apostle JOseph Fielding Smith:
A Mother in Heaven
Question: "Will you please give us the background of the 'theory' advanced of 'a Mother in Heaven'? Some feel that God is great enough to create spirits without any assistance, and if not, why then was not a Mother mentioned among the Godhead?"
Mother in Heaven/It may be true that the Bible does not speak of a mother in heaven, nor does the Doctrine and Covenants when speaking of the revelations of the Lord to the Church. Permit me to call attention to the fact that mothers and wives are seldom mentioned in the Bible, although they are on certain occasions. The fact that there is no reference to a mother in heaven either in the Bible, Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants, is not sufficient proof that no such thing as a mother did exist there. If we had a Father, which we did, for all of these records speak of him, then does not good common sense tell us that we must have had a mother there also?
Mother in Heaven/When we stop to think of it, there are passages which strongly imply that we did have a mother there. Let me call your attention to some passages of scripture. First, Paul speaking to the Greeks on Mars Hill had this to say:
Mother in Heaven/For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (Acts 17:28.)
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 3: 144.)
JOseph Fielding McConkie and Robert Millet: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Fielding_McConkie
Eve was chosen to stand at Michael's side. She was a companion of "like stature, capacity, and intelligence," as Elder McConkie wrote.fn Through the extended schooling of eternity, Eve had proven herself worthy in every particular. Though we have not been given her premortal name, we know she was one like unto or after the pattern of the heavenly mother. We conclude, then, that Eve, by endowment and preparation, corresponded in all things to Michael. She was his completion.
(Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, eds., The Man Adam [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1990], 91.)
Apostle Jeffrey HOlland - (BYU President): - See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffery_R._Holland
I have heard it said by some that the reason women in the Church struggle somewhat to know themselves is because they don't have a divine female role model. But we do. We believe we have a mother in heaven. President Spencer W. Kimball declared in a general conference address: "When we sing that doctrinal hymn . . . 'O My Father,' we get a sense of the ultimate in maternal modesty, of the restrained, queenly elegance of our heavenly mother, and, knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here, do we suppose her influence on us as individuals to be less?" (Ensign, May 1978, p. 4.)
(Jeffrey R. Holland and Patricia T. Holland, On Earth As It Is in Heaven [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989], 91.)
Apostle Russell M Ballard -- See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Russell_Ballard
"Families on earth are an extension of the family of God. According to the LDS concept of the family, every person is a child of heavenly parents as well as mortal parents. Each individual was created spiritually and physically in the image of God and Christ (Moses 2:27; 3:5). The First Presidency has declared, 'All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity' (Messages of the First Presidency, 4:203). Everyone, before coming to this earth, lived with Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, and each was loved and taught by them as a member of their eternal family." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:486-87.)
Our Heavenly Parents' love and concern for us continues to this very moment. In our wonderful, pre-earth home we had the opportunity to learn many eternal truths. Our Heavenly Father wanted us to develop every godly quality, for He knew that although each of us is unique, we all have within us the seeds of godhood. Indeed, we yearned to be like Him. But He understood that we could only progress to a certain point without the wisdom of experience through mortality, including the trials and temptations that come to all of us as a direct result of our physical bodies. Therefore our Father's plan was created to help us reach our full potential. It would be difficult and sometimes painful—for Him, perhaps, as well as for us. But He knew it was the only way His children could grow and improve.
(M. Russell Ballard, Our Search for Happiness: An Invitation to Understand The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1993], 70.)
BYU Studies:
While we come to Christ as individuals, the paradox is that women and men who have endured to the end and overcome the world must be exalted jointly as wives and husbands, following the pattern of our heavenly parents (D&C 131:2). The scriptural promise of exaltation to husbands and wives contained in D&C 132:19-20 is also a description of the current life of our heavenly parents, who are explicitly characterized as sharing "a fulness" (D&C 132:19):
Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. (D&C 132:20; italics added)
From this scripture, one may extrapolate that Heavenly Mother is a full and equal partner to Heavenly Father even though our knowledge of her is incomplete. fn Additionally, General Authorities have repeatedly spoken of the eternal relationship between husbands and wives as that of "equal partners." President Spencer W. Kimball has noted:
Marriage is a partnership. Each is given a part of the work of life to do.... When we speak of marriage as a partnership, let us speak of marriage as a full partnership. We do not want our LDS women to be silent partners or limited partners in the eternal assignment! Please be a contributing and full partner. fn
(Feminism in the Light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, BYU Studies, vol. 36 (1996-97), Number 2--1996-97 .)
(Dawn Anderson, Dlora Dalton, and Susette Green - BYU Women's Conference:
See http://mormonlit.lib.byu.edu/lit_work.php?w_id=4916
Some time in the distant past, we were born spiritually. Before that we were intelligences. As spirit children, male and female, we lived with our heavenly parents in the celestial kingdom. If we were with God and our heavenly mother in the celestial kingdom, what ever would have possessed us to leave? Isn't that what we are after—to be back in the celestial kingdom with God? So why did we have to leave? This is a very important point. Most of the Christian world's idea of heaven is to return to live with God, but we believe there is something far more significant. Not only do we want to live with God, we want to be like God. That is what eternal life, God's life, means. What was God like when we were there living with him in the celestial kingdom? Three things are significant. First, he had a glorified, immortal, physical body. We did not; we were only spirits. Second, he had a divine nature, every attribute in absolute perfection. We did not. Third, he had an eternal wife, and they were able to have eternal children. Thus we were living with God in heaven, but we certainly were not like him.
To move forward, to become like God, we had to have a body. Having a body is not just an incidental by-product of mortality. It is one of its central purposes. Until we can be connected with a physical, elemental body, we cannot have a fulness of joy (see D&C 93:33-34). In addition, to be like God, we have to acquire divine attributes. Those two objectives brought us to earth. As I understand it, to prove ourselves, we needed four things: first, an imperfect world; second, a mortal body that could endure sickness, irritation, tiredness, and other ills so that we could gain experience; third, agency, for without choice there is no morality; and fourth, opposition, as Lehi explained (see 2 Ne. 2:11), because we can't exercise agency with nothing to choose between and no conflicting enticements toward good or evil. The Fall was necessary to gain a battlefield, and thus began the plan of God. In scriptural terms life comes down to one word: warfare. Metaphors of war—from "put on the armor of righteousness" (2 Ne. 1:23) to "rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise" (Micah 7:8)—are found everywhere in scripture. The Spirit helps us in many ways—instructing, comforting, and strengthening us—but the ultimate battle is absolutely individual. It is not a team event. It is not a spectator sport.
(Dawn Anderson, Dlora Dalton, and Susette Green, eds., Every Good Thing: Talks from the 1997 BYU Women’s Conference [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1998], 274.)
Roy Doxey -- (ROY W. DOXEY (1908-1992) was widely known throughout the Church as a great teacher of latter-day scripture. Some of his other works include The Doctrine and Covenants Speaks (a two volume work), The Doctrine and Covenants and the Future, and Prophecies and Prophetic Promises from the Doctrine and Covenants. Doxey served as dean of Religious Instruction at BYU and as director of correlation for The Church. He presided over the Eastern States Mission and was a Regional Representative of the Council of the Twelve.)
"In the premortal world the plan of salvation was formed whereby the spirit sons and daughters of God could receive an earth life necessary for eternal progression. The relationship between God and his children was a parent-child relationship because his spirit children were born of a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. (Youth and the Church, pp. 126-27.) The eternal round of spirit children being born to exalted beings and the opportunity to reach the heights of exaltation by an earth life require marriage for eternity by mortals. Faithfulness to eternal marriage covenants is a means of proving oneself as a part of the eternal plan.
(Roy W. Doxey, The Doctrine and Covenants Speaks [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1964], 2: 426.)
Daniel H Ludlow: (Dean of BYU Religion Department)
According to the LDS concept of the family, every person is a child of heavenly parents as well as mortal parents. Each individual was created spiritually and physically in the image of God and Christ (Moses 2:27; 3:5). The First Presidency has declared, "All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity" (MFP 4:203). Everyone, before coming to this earth, lived with Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, and each was loved and taught by them as a member of their eternal family (see Premortal Life). Birth unites the spirit with a physical body so that together they can "receive a fulness of joy" (D&C 93:33; cf. 2 Ne. 2:25).
(Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1-4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 486.)
Improvement Era:
O MY FATHER," by Eliza R. Snow, is considered one of the greatest of all Latter-day Saint hymns, because of its unusual doctrinal content, especially that contained in the third stanza. This remarkable verse projects a new thought into religious philosophy; namely, that we have a heavenly mother in the courts on high.
The hymn was written during a period of exciting conditions that finally had their tragic ending in the death of the Prophet and Patriarch. According to Orson F. Whitney, Eliza's marriage to the Prophet took place June 29, 1842. "O My Father" was written in 1843. So the poetess wrote it while she was the Prophet's wife. She was also a governess in his family. This close companionship gave her abundant opportunity to discuss with the Prophet many great and important things "pertaining to the kingdom of God."
It was during this period that Zina D. Huntington (afterwards Zina D. Young) was grieved over an unusual circumstance. Her mother, who had died some time before, had been buried in a temporary grave and it became necessary to remove the body to a permanent resting place. When the remains were exhumed it was discovered that they were partially petrified. It seemed to Zina as if the very foundation of the doctrine of the resurrection crumbled. To the question "Shall I know my mother when I meet her in the world beyond?" the Prophet responded emphatically "Yes, you will know your mother there." A firm believer in Joseph's divine mission, Zina D. Young was comforted by the promise. From the discussions on the resurrection and the relationship of man to Deity, no doubt came the inspiration to Eliza R. Snow for the writing of "O My Father." The poem was written in the home of Stephen Markham and was penned on a wooden chest, the only table available in her meagerly furnished room.
The hymn is in four stanzas and is an epitome of the great drama of eternal life as revealed by the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.
(O My Father by Eliza R. Snow, Improvement Era, 1936, Vol. Xxxix. May, 1936. No. 5. .)
LDS Women's Treasury:
What about the concept of a divine Woman, a Heavenly Mother? Joseph Smith suggested that the logic of the revealed gospel requires a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father.<#>5 It is not surprising that Mormon women cherish the concept. A divine Mother represents a final destination for daughters, someone with whom they can identify fully and without ambiguity.
But even though we have the idea of a Heavenly Mother to whom women can relate without ambiguity, we still have a problem. Our concept of the divine Woman is itself ambiguous. Our scriptural stories give no accounts of her activities, no clues to her personality. Our theology contains no doctrine about how to relate to her.
We are tempted to fill the vacuum with images of a heavenly woman drawn from the earthly condition of women. We envision, perhaps, a nurturing figure devoted to innumerable spirit children but withdrawn from the wider realm of cosmic government. I remember a Primary class, in which someone asked the teacher, "If we have a Mother in Heaven, how come we never hear about her?" The teacher's reply was that God was protecting her name from the kinds of slander that human beings direct toward the names of the Father and the Son. It was a clever reply, and, at the time, we all thought it was quite satisfying. None of us realized then that this answer described a lady not quite up to taking care of herself in a tough world, an image drawn purely from certain human conventions and not from divine reality.
(LDS Women’s Treasury: Insights and Inspiration for Today’s Woman [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1997], 55 - 56.)
Victor Ludlow: (BYU Religion Dean)
A Heavenly Mother shares parenthood with the Heavenly Father. This concept leads Latter-day Saints to believe that she is like him in glory, perfection, compassion, wisdom, and holiness." fn
Premortal Life/This understanding helps explain a puzzling passage in Genesis that describes God as creating mankind "male and female" in the image of the Divine. One modern translation of the key verse reads: "God created human beings in his own image; in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." (Gen. 1:27, Revised English Bible.) A statement of the First Presidency of the Church clarifies that each spirit personage "was begotten and born of heavenly parents" as "offspring of celestial parentage." It also teaches that "all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity." fn Thus, we are all the spirit children of God.
(Victor L. Ludlow, Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1992], 145.)
Robert J Matthews: - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._Matthews
1. Men and women are the actual spirit children of heavenly parents. We have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother who are the parents of our spirits; thus all mankind are brothers and sisters.
(Robert J. Matthews, Selected Writings of Robert J. Matthews: Gospel Scholars Series [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1999], 494.)
Hugh NIbley:
In the Acts of Thomas: "To the wedding feast I have been invited, and I have put on white garments. May I be worthy of them. May I remember to keep my light bright that I may keep its oil," etc. fn Another very important writing is the so-called Gospel of Truth, discovered in Egypt, one of the Nag Hammadi papyri: "The word of the Father clothes everyone from top to bottom, purifies, and makes them fit to come back into the presence of their Father and their heavenly mother." fn And there are many other examples.
(Hugh Nibley, Temple and Cosmos: Beyond This Ignorant Present, edited by Don E. Norton [salt Lake City and Provo: Deseret Book Co., Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1992], 122.)
Chieko Okazaki (1st Counselor in RS Presidency) - See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chieko_N._Okazaki
Answers to such questions in the gospel make it easier to accept and live through our painful moments. Every human being who was ever born on the earth—you, me, all of our parents, all of our children, everyone—assembled in a great council in heaven before the creation of this earth to discuss the next step. We believe that a central core of personality, identity, and self-awareness is eternal and has always existed, but already we had experienced one major change. We had received spirit bodies by being born into the eternal family of our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother as their spirit children; their firstborn in the spirit was Jesus Christ. We know that we understood more during the council in heaven than we do now. We know that we saw differently, saw with clarity how the trials of mortality were linked to a love of the Savior and of our Heavenly Father.
(Chieko Okazaki, Sanctuary [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1997], 153.)
Dawn Hall Anderson and Marie Cornwall:
What about the concept of a divine Woman, a Heavenly Mother? Joseph Smith suggested that the logic of the revealed gospel requires a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father. fn It is not surprising that Mormon women cherish the concept. A divine Mother represents a final destination for daughters, someone with whom they can identify fully and without ambiguity.
But even though we have the idea of a Heavenly Mother to whom women can relate without ambiguity, we still have a problem. Our concept of the divine Woman is itself ambiguous. Our scriptural stories give no accounts of her activities, no clues to her personality. Our theology contains no doctrine about how to relate to her.
We are tempted to fill the vacuum with images of a heavenly woman drawn from the earthly condition of women. We envision, perhaps, a nurturing figure devoted to innumerable spirit children but withdrawn from the wider realm of cosmic government. I remember a Primary class, in which someone asked the teacher, "If we have a Mother in Heaven, how come we never hear about her?" The teacher's reply was that God was protecting her name from the kinds of slander that human beings direct toward the names of the Father and the Son. It was a clever reply, and, at the time, we all thought it was quite satisfying. None of us realized then that this answer described a lady not quite up to taking care of herself in a tough world, an image drawn purely from certain human conventions and not from divine reality.
(Dawn Hall Anderson and Marie Cornwall, eds., Women Steadfast in Christ: Talks Selected from the 1991 Women's Conference Co-Sponsored by Brigha m Young University and the Relief Society [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1992], 95.)
BYU Women's Conference:
We are taught in the gospel of Jesus Christ that to achieve godhood and become like our Father and Mother in Heaven means to grow in righteousness to the point that our desires and actions have become aligned with Theirs, that we do what we do, not because we have to or because we are commanded to, but because we want to, because that is our choice! That ideal state cannot be reached without our exercising agency.
(As Women of Faith: Talks Selected from the BYU Women's Conferences [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989], 214.)
Truman Madsen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_G._Madsen
We have (and this is only a footnote) spoken, oh so cautiously, of a heavenly mother. Traditional Christianity, following the Romans, has placed a mother in heaven. She has been, says the dogma, assumed bodily into heaven. fn (And I said humorously to my friend, the Jesuit, "That's exactly what she was--assumed into heaven.") They have said that Mary, the mother of Christ, was in some ways co-redemptress with Christ and is the intimate Channel for out communion with the divine. fn We do not want to follow that form. But we have from the beginning said there are two, there is God and Goddess, in the ultimate scheme of things.
(Are Christians Mormon? Fn by Truman G. Madsen Fn, BYU Studies, vol. 15 (1974-1975), Number 1 - Autumn 1974 89.)

My goodness Gaia!

That is a very thorough list of references.

Thanks for taking the time.

Onyx

Gaia · September 25, 2007

Okay Gaia,
I read thru most of the notes. It confirmed what I already have stated: that I believe this.
My contention this morning was that 2 people wrote two different accounts of the same vision: one stating it was Eve, the other HM. I find that dubious at best. Not that the vision happened. Not that it was even HM or Eve. But that people, remembering something that had happened 50 years before, we interpreting the same vision differently. Kind of like the story about Onandega, the skeleton that was found in Illinois. There are several different accounts of the same occasion, so none of them are trustworthy as doctrine. I tried to find the account of these visions today in the JS History of the Church, and they weren't there. It would have been nice for JS to have recorded these as well, but...
I guess my question is this: in light of all of this, what is your concern? That we don't pray to HM? That we don't have talks about her? What exactly is it you are looking for?
Thanks.

GAIA:

Hi Sixpack --

I'm afraid you misunderstood me, or perhaps i didn't make myself clear.

I'm not "looking for" much of anything.

In a discussion, i raised the idea / topic of Heavenly Mother; you and a few others questioned the legitimacy of the topic as a "doctrine" of the Church, and asked me to provide some references on that.

I did so.

If i have any "goal" in presenting these quotes, it would probably be to have there be more understanding, patience and respect for those who do consider Her a topic worth raising and discussing, and for those who do admit to feeling a yearning for their Divine Mother.

However, as i said before, i wouldn't ask anybody else to do anything against their own personal values or beliefs.

Blessings --

~Gaia

a-train · September 25, 2007

what is your concern? That we don't pray to HM? That we don't have talks about her? What exactly is it you are looking for?

This is what I have been wondering throughout this thread. Therefore, what? LDS people are certainly of the opinion and agree that we have a Heavenly Mother, are we to understand that the LORD wants us to know something more about Her, but we have not been willing to receive it? What are we getting to here?

-a-train

sixpacktr · September 25, 2007

Hi Gaia,

I'm still not finding where it is considered doctrine, however. I was reading about the 'concept', 'belief', etc., but nothing stating the 'doctrine' of HM.

Anyway, thanks for all of the quotes.

Traveler · September 25, 2007

I read through some post but not all or even most. I believe that it is LDS doctrine that there is a heavenly mother. I also believe that it is LDS doctrine that through temple covenants women of the covenants will be G-ds in heaven and mother in eternity.

But there is a problem. Man has fallen and is not able to have anything to do with anything of heaven except through the mediator, Jesus Christ.

There are no scripture references directly giving us understanding of our Mother(s) in heaven. For example we do not know if we all have the same mother. And Gaia – how would it make our mother feel if we prayed to another? But before anyone gets their brains mixed up with marbles – there are no scripture references directly giving us understand of our Father either. The best we have it the “likeness” that exist between Jesus and his Father. There may be likenesses to our mother in heaven but that has not been divinely appointed – leaving nothing but speculation. And speculation is a most dangerous engine for doctrine.

The Traveler

a-train · September 25, 2007

Exactly Traveler. Hallelujah! Amen and Amen!

Our Exemplar is Jesus of Nazareth. I can say that the more I come to know Christ, the more I am truly amazed by Him. He is certainly the Great Messiah, the Eternal God!

We must understand that we cannot receive anything from our Heavenly Parents without it coming through the Saviour, our LORD, Jesus. This is certainly demonstrated in the temple and the scriptures. This is exactly what I was getting at earlier. We can only learn of Jesus here in the telestial realm and until we can abide Him, we cannot abide the Celestial realm nor our Celestial Parents there.

-a-train

Gaia · September 25, 2007

We can only learn of Jesus here in the telestial realm and until we can abide Him, we cannot abide the Celestial realm nor our Celestial Parents there.
-a-train

GAIA:

Well, That's the entire reason for the Gospel -- to prepare and teach us how to access the things of Eternity, directly, with no middle person at all -- That is essentially the meaning of receiving the SEcond Comforter -

a-train · September 25, 2007

And even then, once we have attained the presence of the Saviour as the Second Comforter, our work is not through. We must continue onward until we can go from the Terrestrial to the Celestial and obtain the presence of the Father.

-a-train

Snow · September 25, 2007

I wanted to continue the discussion on Heavenly Mother, thus this thread.
The existence of Heavenly Mother is an accepted doctrine of the LDS Church -- (see for example:
a) http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/g...nly_mother.html
B) http://www.greaterthings.com/MormonGoddess/

Well - no. None of your sources was officially doctrinal in nature. In fact the one that is quasi-doctrinal, the Encylopedia of Mormonism summed it up correctly: "Latter-day Saints infer from authoritative sources of scripture and modern prophecy that there is a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father."

... that is WE INFER. Official doctrinal sources do not make it explicit. We only interpret or infer what the doctrine implies.

Do you have any official sources I could turn to for doctrinal reference?

tiancum · September 25, 2007

Gaia,

Just curious, are you LDS?

I thought I remembered by your name before it said LDS.

You know A LOT about us, I am impressed.

Who says we don't pray to her. Many just don't realize it.

If they are one, then when we talk to one, we talk to the other. When we pray, we are singling out the male part of God, we are simply honoring the priesthood that they...(AND I MEAN BOTH OF THEM) established.

I won't ever "pray to her". I pray to them, every time I pray. When i say, "heavenly Father", i know they ALL hear me. They all answer. They are one. It is silly to separate them, when they work so hard to be ONE.

If people are exed, it is not because they have talked about a Heavenly Mother. You don't get exed for such a thing. Most often, you get exed for your attitude. (something that people who have been exed, more often than not, don't even realize they have)

shanstress70 · September 25, 2007

i know they ALL hear me.

By this, are you implying more than two?

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