What the Holy Bible Teaches

[SilentOne]

4 hours ago, zil said:

4 hours ago, person0 said:

[blah blah blah]

[blah blah blah]

 

Um, dude, you can't be posting pictures of cookies like that without also posting pictures of a glass of milk!  [smh]

Here, I'll fix that for you.

[anatess2]

8 hours ago, person0 said:

I think I may have failed to adequately communicate my issue.  Or else it is intertwined enough to the issue you just mentioned that most people are incapable or unwilling to distinguish.  I was going to stop, because you may have perfectly understood, but now just for fun I want to use an analogy because I just got really excited about this analogy!

Observe the cookies.  The white cookies are vanilla, the brown cookies are chocolate.  In between the cookies is creme filling.  Lets assume you prefer the chocolate cookies.  What makes that cookie better than the vanilla cookie?  If you answer that the creme filling is what makes it better, you would be similar to some other people I know, but because they both have the same creme filling, it can't possibly be the creme filling that makes it better, so you would be wrong.  What makes the chocolate cookie better is that it is chocolate, and you like chocolate more than vanilla.  Now let's pretend that almost everyone in the world likes the chocolate cookies better, and only a few people like the vanilla cookies more.  Now what makes the chocolate cookie better?  Is it reasonable now to say that it is the creme filling?  No, because it is still the same creme filling.  But it makes complete sense to say that the chocolate is what makes it better.

(Creme filling is the Bible, all other tenets of [x] religion/denomination is the cookie itself)

I apologize person0, I don’t get the analogy.

I guess I’m thrown off by the “liking”.  It doesn’t fit in the analogy.  I think it fits better that you ask a person - Is the white cookie chocolate?  The answer would be No, of course not, it’s not chocolate but vanilla regardless of the exact same creme filling.

[warnerfranklin]

6 hours ago, Traveler said:

Generally speaking I have a low opinion of traditional Christians.  To be honest – my opinion of traditional Christians is lower than Pagans – right there with infidels and Pharisees.  I am both grateful and thankful that we LDS are excluded and not considered part of the Great Apostasy.  Isaiah described such “Christians” as drawing near with their mouths and with their lips honoring G-d but with hearts far from G-d.  Jesus spoke of such “Christians” that claim believe and to do things in his name – but Jesus said that when these kinds of Christians stand before him he will say, “I never knew you”.

 

For every troll out there you will find 10 Mother Theresa's.  For every person who cannot look past doctrinal differences you will find many who will admire and envy your walk with Christ.  While other churches dry up because they cannot seem to put into practice what they preach you will hear many of the lost cry, "I knew the Mormons would come!"  

I became a Mormon, despite being one of those "traditional Christians", because I had friends and neighbors who looked past our differences and took it upon themselves to help me be the best Christian I could be - despite ill advised things I probably said, despite the fact that I most likely would not join the church.  They did so because they knew I was operating on incomplete information.  They did so because they were obeying Christ's admonition to bless those who curse you.  For which I cannot begin to express how grateful I am.

Today, I got to deal with some trolls who, because of the need for doctrinal purity on their part, could not even see they were being self righteous, condescending, and hateful. It was unfortunate, because I had, up until today, been somewhat successful at bridging the gap between evangelicals and Mormons.

But, I guess, occasionally we run into situations were we have to agree to disagree and in other cases not bother casting our pearls before swine. 

Paul faced this kind of blow back in his day.  So did the savior.  So will anyone who tries to live a Godly life.  Take joy in the fact that we have been deemed worthy to endure ridicule and hatred because of our love for Christ!

I do take solace that as time goes by this in-fighting between churches will hopefully diminish.  I take encouragement because of the fact that here in Salt Lake City our Church and the Roman Catholic Church seem to have a good working relationship.  I'm encouraged because when I volunteered at the homeless shelter you had a ministry ran by the catholic church and while I was there we had a number of Mormon missionaries, a couple of baptist sisters, and some other gentlemen from various denominations, but we had all come there to bring the gospel of Christ to those in our community who needed it the most.

Do not give up on people who are working with incomplete information.  If they won't listen to your words then let your life be your testimony, because it will be the one thing they will never be able to ignore.  They may hate us for it, they may curse us and call down Hell upon our heads, but they will not be able to shut down the burning coals our examples will place upon their heads.

 

 

[person0]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

I apologize person0, I don’t get the analogy.

Assume religion A is the chocolate cookie, and religion B is the vanilla cookie, and the cream filling is the Bible.  If both religions believe the Bible is the word of God, then the basis for following or believing in one religion over the other is the personal preference for, or belief in, the doctrines and teachings and biblical interpretation of that religion.  The biblical text remains the same across both religions, but the interpretation differs.

I was never trying to raise the issue of why mainstream Christians do not consider Mormons to be Christian.  I am well aware of their reasons.  I was attempting to raise the issue that they are terrible at accurately communicating their reasons.  When they say things like, "I dont consider anyone who has a doctrine other than what the Holy Bible teaches as Christian", what they actually mean is, "I don't believe that anyone who disagrees with [x] interpretation of what the Holy Bible teaches about [a/b/c] is Christian".  The problem is that they don't understand the difference between what they are saying and what they are meaning, even when you point it out to them.  It is reasonable to say that they believe a certain religion is not Christian in comparison to what they think Christian beliefs should be, but that is not what was being said by the individual who inspired this thread.  What they were saying was that their definition of Christianity is based on what the Bible itself teaches, when in fact the Bible 'teaches' something different to each person who interprets it different than the next.  Saying that the cream filling is the reason one of the cookies is better than the other is an example of the type of illogical thing that was being communicated, when what someone would actually mean is that the chocolate or vanilla flavor is what made it more preferable.

Compliance with the biblical text itself is ambiguous and relative.  Compliance with certain established doctrines and principles is, for the most part, fixed.  Either you believe in the trinity or you don't, however, to say that the Bible teaches the trinity is relative to interpretation.  Once again, the whole thread was initiated by my annoyance at the lack of logical communication skills shown by those who seek to claim the falsehood of Mormonism, not the actual claim itself.

Edited March 13, 2018 by person0

[showustheking]

On 3/12/2018 at 12:08 PM, anatess2 said:

These denominations are all considered heretics.  

but aren't you a sort of denomination...? 

[anatess2]

5 hours ago, showustheking said:

but aren't you a sort of denomination...? 

I don't think you followed the conversation.

Here, let me outline it for you:

 

On 3/12/2018 at 2:07 PM, person0 said:

Yes, but there are many denominations that teach that God is not triune, that have nothing to do with Mormonism, or Joseph Smith, or claimed revelation. 

 

On 3/12/2018 at 2:08 PM, anatess2 said:

These denominations are all considered heretics.  

Person0 and I were talking from the perspective of the Trinitarian Churches.