Woman Shares a Powerful Testimony After Leaving Lesbian Lifestyle

[Still_Small_Voice]

God's commandments are the way of happiness. When we choose the opposite we are choosing unhappiness.

This is part of this woman's testimony after leaving an immoral lifestyle and needs to be read over and over again: "Our flesh tries numerous tactics to deceive us, promising us that if we use God’s gifts in our own ways, we’ll create a better life. It’s as old as the garden [of Eden]. But money, power, family, health, rest — every good thing God dreamed up for us — crumbles and rots when we snatch it out of His hand. A yes to temptation is a yes to disappointment [and] pain . . ."

Read her full testimony here:  https://www.westernjournal.com/woman-shares-how-she-left-same-sex-romance-for-true-love/?ff_source=Email&ff_medium=rightalerts&ff_campaign=dailyam&ff_content=ttp

[MrShorty]

I don't know. When I have seen these stories in the past, I always end up with the same conclusion. Why is it diametrically opposite for same-sex attractions than for opposite sex attractions. We talk about the sorrows from same-sex (sexual) relationships, and the joy experienced when same-sex attracted people abandon their pursuit of such relationships. Then we talk about how opposite sex (sexual) relationships (between married people) brings great joy and maybe even spiritual growth.

I had a brief conversation in another forum with a man who was in the midst of choosing to eliminate the sexual side of the relationship with his same-sex partner. He, too, talked about how he got closer to God doing this. I explained that, as a man in a sexless heterosexual relationship, I did not experience the same increase of spiritualitywhen sex left the relationship. Perhaps that is still to come, I don't know. Nobody is telling me that I have a unique opportunity to grow spiritually because of my "involuntary celibacy".

For me it boils down to this -- if celibacy is truly better for one's spirituality, then why are we not also encouraging and lauding sexless heterosexual marriages? Or is celibacy better for one's spirituality (we have a long history of downplaying the Catholic and similar's practice of "celibate orders")?

I have seen many attempts to explain this contradiction. All attempts other than "God said so (through His prophets, and we believe the prophets have correctly interpreted the mind of God)" have not sunk in for me.

Edited December 4, 2018 by MrShorty

[zil]

It's not that celibacy is better for spirituality, it is that giving up sins is better for one's spirituality.  (And we encourage anyone and everyone to not have sex except with their opposite-sex spouse - aka give up sexual sins.)

Edited June 1, 2018 by zil

[dellme]

1 hour ago, MrShorty said:

Why is it diametrically opposite for same-sex attractions than for opposite sex attractions. We talk about the sorrows from same-sex (sexual) relationships, and the joy experienced when same-sex attracted people abandon their pursuit of such relationships.

Umm, because same-sex attractions and relationships are death-literally, figuratively and spiritually. And normal attractions are life.

Edited June 1, 2018 by dellme

[Still_Small_Voice]

Mister Shorty, I posted this article for the intent of showing that following God's commandments brings happiness while disobedience brings suffering and pain.  I did not say (and if you took it this way I am sorry) that celibacy was a preferred lifestyle.  Our Father in Heaven gave us sexual relations in the marriage covenant for procreation and to help bring a man and woman happiness in their mortal lives.

[MrShorty]

It could be my own biases, but the celibacy vs. non-celibacy was probably something gleaned from her essay, as she made several statements lauding her denial (as in choosing not to act upon) those desires and choosing to be abstinent and so on. She seemed rather convinced that her choice to be celibate was the best choice for her. Naturally, when I read an essay that claims that it is good for one person to choose celibacy, naturally my thoughts trend toward why it would be good for me and others to choose celibacy. It's clearly not a thorough treatment of the contradiction, but I tend to see it deep underneath the suggestion that I should read this essay.

The "law of harvest" angle is also interesting, and seems to be fraught with contradictions as well. There are many anecdotes like this one. "I am homosexual, chose abstinence/celibacy and found joy, happiness, and God." It certainly seems that there are many on the pro-homosexual lifestyle side of the debate that dislike and try to downplay these anecdotes ("Their joy and happiness must be fake somehow"). There are also many other anecdotes like "I am homosexual, abandoned my conservative congregation in favor of a liberal, LGBT affirming congregation (and maybe a same sex spouse), and found joy, happiness, and God."  Of course, we on the conservative side like to downplay these anecdotes ("their joy and happiness must be fake somehow").

We have a good history of resisting "prosperity gospel" everyone who keeps commandent(s) ____ will without fail find joy, happiness, and God" type teachings. As the Ecclesiast says "There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: the righteous who get what the wicked deserve, and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless." (Eccl 8:14 NIV) I guess in the end, I find it useful to remember that these kinds of anecdotes exist, and that people who choose a life of celibacy counter to their natural inclinations can find joy, happiness, and God. I find myself unconvinced by these anecdotes that, because these homosexual people found joy, happiness, and God in celibacy, that all homosexual people will find joy, happiness, and God in celibacy, or that the LDS and conservative Christian stances on homosexuality are "true".

[Just_A_Guy]

30 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

It could be my own biases, but the celibacy vs. non-celibacy was probably something gleaned from her essay, as she made several statements lauding her denial (as in choosing not to act upon) those desires and choosing to be abstinent and so on. She seemed rather convinced that her choice to be celibate was the best choice for her. Naturally, when I read an essay that claims that it is good for one person to choose celibacy, naturally my thoughts trend toward why it would be good for me and others to choose celibacy. It's clearly not a thorough treatment of the contradiction, but I tend to see it deep underneath the suggestion that I should read this essay.

The "law of harvest" angle is also interesting, and seems to be fraught with contradictions as well. There are many anecdotes like this one. "I am homosexual, chose abstinence/celibacy and found joy, happiness, and God." It certainly seems that there are many on the pro-homosexual lifestyle side of the debate that dislike and try to downplay these anecdotes ("Their joy and happiness must be fake somehow"). There are also many other anecdotes like "I am homosexual, abandoned my conservative congregation in favor of a liberal, LGBT affirming congregation (and maybe a same sex spouse), and found joy, happiness, and God."  Of course, we on the conservative side like to downplay these anecdotes ("their joy and happiness must be fake somehow").

We have a good history of resisting "prosperity gospel" everyone who keeps commandent(s) ____ will without fail find joy, happiness, and God" type teachings. As the Ecclesiast says "There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: the righteous who get what the wicked deserve, and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless." (Eccl 8:14 NIV) I guess in the end, I find it useful to remember that these kinds of anecdotes exist, and that people who choose a life of celibacy counter to their natural inclinations can find joy, happiness, and God. I find myself unconvinced by these anecdotes that, because these homosexual people found joy, happiness, and God in celibacy, that all homosexual people will find joy, happiness, and God in celibacy, or that the LDS and conservative Christian stances on homosexuality are "true".

I’m not sure whether you’re also suggesting the converse to be true (that gays can find joy, happiness and God outside of the Church and in a homosexual relationship); but if so, I would note that the catch to that is that there are folks who reject various aspects of LDS teaching and consider themselves “happier” for doing so.  I’ve spoken to several ExMos who claim to feel the Spirit far more deeply and frequently in their new lives as Evangelicals than they did as Mormons.

Either we’re missing something about the true nature of happiness, or (as I think you’re saying with your quote from Ecclesiastes) we need to come to grips with the fact that “happiness” (whatever that means) and “truth” are not synonymous and that “truth” must prevail over “happiness”.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[MrShorty]

@Just_A_Guy: Yes, ultimately that is the end truth -- finding truth is not synonymous with finding happiness, and that truth ultimately should prevail. It sometimes seems that a major difficulty and purpose to life is discerning true truth (from the department of redundancy department) from the many stand-ins for truth (same for happiness).