Another really long post from events over the summer or - The Forgotten Mormons

[JohnsonJones]

This is something I wrote in my Journal (so yes, a long thing) after a rather tough discussion with a previous member of the church and my thoughts pertaining to it.

The Forgotten Mormons – The Lord will reward them just as much if not more than the rest of us

One young man I was around this summer was incredibly bitter against the LDS church.  He had many things which he held against the LDS church, but the point he claimed was too much was the prejudice and discrimination he felt from the LDS church itself.

Now, I am not stranger to the ideas of discrimination in the LDS church with leadership and the Priesthood (and I’ve brought it up here on several occasions regarding how odd it is that we have so many minorities in our area, but the entirety of the Leadership is white, or that there seems to be a weird way the LDS church chooses leaders in that they always seem to be the richer ones of a ward or those better off rather than those who are necessarily humble or righteous…but I ALSO hold that the Lord still inspires callings and leadership).  However, I would never see it as a breaking point.

This kid brought up some interesting points, but what it boils down to is that he does not understand that the Lord is the one who chooses who gets to heaven…NOT man.  As such, it doesn’t matter WHO we on this earth choose to give accolades or honors to, in the end, it is those who serve that are least but are the greater servants and ministers.  Indeed we could say he who is LEAST will be the greatest and he who is great will be the least…aka…the first shall be last and the last shall be first even in this.

A prime point I can use is with the Lord and his apostles.  When asked who would sit on his right hand he said it was not his to give, but said instead…

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40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.

42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.

43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:

44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.

45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

In otherwords, he who is the greatest is the servant of ALL…not the one who exercises authority or is considered great among the definitions of men.

So, as not understanding this principle, the young man gave me his reasons.  He had a grandfather who was in the church all his life.  He was not a college graduate and never made a ton of money, however he was ALWAYS faithful to the church.  He paid his full tithe, he went faithfully and did not break the commandments.  This grandfather was eventually allowed to meet with the High Priests but was never made one himself.  He never became a High Priest.

Then the young man had his father.  It was basically the same story.  The Young man said he got actively angry the day when another man he KNEW was deep in sin and was made Bishop while his father was still an old man and an elder.  The Bishop was committing adultery and the Young man opposed it, but he stated he was ignored.  In addition, one of the counselors was someone who constantly cheated others in his business and was very dishonest.  Still, the young man’s father continued to be faithful and “forced” this young man to go to church when the young man visited home.

The father also never became a High Priest. 

Now, when the church moved to combine the High Priests and the Elders, the Young man felt it was still offensive.  The High Priests still acted as if they were High Priests and there was a distinct discrimination that the Young Man felt in the wards he attended when he attended.  They ensured everyone knew who was a High Priest and who was not.  The combining of the quorum just made things worse, and he felt it was done to make sure that people like his father would forever be discriminated against…NOT because they did anything wicked or wrong, but because they were not part of that good old boy club that chose who was to be a High Priest and who was not.

When his father died, the young man officially decided to leave the church.  He no longer wanted anything more to do with it.  I find this an extremely TRAGIC story.  In the past three months, due to this decision and his time away from home, he received letters that his wife was leaving him and a divorce is under way.  However, it is even more tragic than that.

I feel (though I did not know them) that his Grandfather and Father understood the thing about the church that he did not.  It does NOT matter WHAT rank you receive in the church, as long as you are faithful and keep the commandments and your covenants, you will receive as great if not greater reward in heaven for your faithfulness.  If this were not so, God would not be just, and we KNOW that God is Just.

One does not have to possess great priesthood rank to achieve being noted in the Kingdom of the Lord.  We can see this in the Old Testament.  We see many prophets that are noted, but we also see those that were nothing of importance within the church itself, but who held greatness and holiness to the Lord.  In fact, one of the greatest in the Old Testament never held the Priesthood, and if he had not sinned, would perhaps be considered one of the greatest of Israel.

This noted individual was a Shepard of no note originally.  He was a young man who had exceeding faith in the Lord, enough faith to face off with a Giant who no other trained soldier would face, but he as a young and untrained shepherd slew with faith in the Lord.

David sinned, but is still held as a Great one in the House of Israel and is constantly referred to throughout the Scriptures after his life was done.  His son Solomon also never held the Priesthood and yet is another who was held in high esteem among the Lord’s anointed while he still remained faithful (though he fell in later years).  Job we do not know, but it is implied that he may not have been a Priest either and as such, the most holy man in the Old Testament was not one who held the Priesthood.

If Job can receive a great reward and be held as more righteous than almost all others, then what does this tell us of the regard the Lord has towards the Priesthood offices in this life?  He respects them, as he did all the prophets and apostles, but it is what we do and how we act that define what reward we get in heaven, not the Priesthood rank we are given in this life.

I acknowledge that due to the weakness of men, there IS discrimination in the church and prejudice.  I agree, that many who are not seen but are righteous are oftentimes not granted priesthood office or rank…but I will also say that this may be a blessing.

Why?

How can one say that being an Elder for life or never being called as a Bishop or other Priesthood office with Keys is a blessing?

In Matthew 7 verses 21-23 we read

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21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Some interpret this verse to mean those who are preachers of other religions, but the Lord was not referring to preachers of other religions.  The ones he spoke most of were those who held the Priesthood authority and power in his own time. 

In addition, those without this power do NOT have the ability to cast out evil, nor officially do work in his name.  ONLY THOSE WHO HOLD THE PRIESTHOOD can do this.

This verse can be seen today as relating DIRECTLY to us in the church.  Of course, this applies to any priesthood holder, but it is even harsher to those who hold the authority to judge in Israel.

There is another parable that people often use to relate to using our talents, but in all truth the story isn’t about using your talents, but about being faithful to the responsibility that we have been given in this life.

The parable actually goes on in explanation of what he is talking about, even to the end of the chapter in Matthew 25.

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For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It is very clear what it is talking about.  What we are granted is our responsibility, and HOW we act is very pertinent.  We show our ability to act in accordance with what we are given in this life by feeding those who need feeding, clothing those who need clothing, visiting the sick and those in prison.

If we refuse to do the things the Lord would have us do and bury our talents, well…we should probably try harder.  It is better that we just do the bare minimum of going to church than to stay at home and avoid helping anyone.  At least then we do something.  But to excel we need to increase the responsibility given and exercise the authority given us by it by helping those as the Lord would around us.

So, why is this even harsher on those who lead the church?  As we see with the one given one talent, if he had just exercised his ability and increased it to two…he probably would have been rewarded with greater positions and authority.

The Leaders on the other hand have a greater responsibility, and as such, a greater weight can fall on them if they do not hold up their end.  They are responsible for those in their wards, and with that greater responsibility comes a greater need to act in the right way.

I have such a thing with dread and pray that I make the right decisions.  I will not relate the exact situation but the general ideas.  A recent Sunday I had to interview someone.  I asked them the necessary questions and they answered all of them affirmatively as they should have.  However, I had something tell me that something was not quite right, and I was actually able to pinpoint the exact thing that was the problem.  In this, I then told them…as per their answers I would grant what they had come for, but I wanted to explain exactly what something may have meant.  I stated I would still grant what they came for as per their answers it was not my place to deny them it…but I felt that this may have been misunderstood by them.  They then said they wanted to make sure that they fulfilled ALL the portions of the thing correctly and would feel better if they could come later after they had ensured they had corrected what they had done.  So we agreed when they would come later and the course of action they would take.

Now…this (and other things) GNAW at me.  I look back at it and want to kick myself.  It is two sides of the coin.  I was probably right to question, but at the same time I wonder if I did the right thing.  Did I offend that individual?  Did I really need to question what they had told me?  Was this the right thing to do?  Did I really do what I should have and did I really act like the Lord would have me do or was this just me acting in the wrong manner?  Things like this plague me and I dislike it when things like this pop up.  It is truly agonizing at times wondering if I acted in the right manner or not.

Is this something I will be judged upon and will this be a bad thing that I did?  I surely hope it is NOT.

Those who make wrong decisions and hold their authority unrighteously or act unrighteously with the authority granted to them may be held accountable for it in the hereafter.  That thought should make ANY one with a leadership position quake if they are humble and really think about it.

And to top it off, the rewards which you will be granted are NOT greater than the rewards of anyone else.  Those who are faithful in their talents will be able to gain the same rewards as you do.  They only require the Melchizedek Priesthood to gain the necessary temple ordinances for salvation.  The Highest of which is actually being sealed for time and all eternity in the temple.

All those who are righteous in this day and time may be granted this blessing.  This is what makes this young man’s story so tragic.  His ancestors understood this and were faithful.  I’m sure they would want him to also be faithful and have a desire for him to join them together in the eternities hereafter as an equal to them in glory and standing.  Instead, because of perceiving the church leadership as we see world leadership he discarded these blessing and as a result has tossed of the church and it’s blessings, lost his eternal companion and celestial blessings of the temple, and all other things in that arena.

Now I may not be the best scriptural authority, and certainly he and others who were anti-Mormon that I spent time with this summer probably could tear into my discussion above…however, all that I see and read indicate that it does not matter WHAT position you hold in the church, what matters is HOW you act and think.  It is your ACTIONS and thoughts that dictate your reward in heaven, NOT your position in this life, whether among men or in the church.  Indeed, I think we may be surprised in the life here after on who is actually the greatest among us and those who are the least.  I imagine that many that we hold up in great honor in this life will not be such in the next, and many of those we despise in this life will be seen to be the greatest among us in the next.

That said, I DO sympathize with those in the church that are…as I would put in my title…

“The Forgotten Mormons”

There are MANY that we forget about in our own wards that are highly faithful and extremely righteous.  In many instances many don’t even notice them and when they are sick no one goes to visit them, or when they have difficulties they bear it with no complaint and there is no one to help them from the church.  It is true that many of those held in high esteem and given position in the church are those who are seen in the church and in the world rather than those who are not.  However, that does not mean that those who I term as the Forgotten Mormons are any less righteous or faithful.  I hope that we can remember those Forgotten Mormons (perhaps it’s the widow who no one really remembers, or the disabled individual who faithfully goes to church every Sunday despite it being a huge struggle and sits silently at the back of the chapel, or many others) and that they are just as much children of the Lord as anyone else.

I think the young man was WRONG in his decision and that he is currently paying for it in real life (with his divorce in the very least) and made it due to his own misunderstandings of how salvation and exaltation work.  However, I do see from it that there are those I need to pay more attention to and helped me to understand that many of those who are the greatest among us may be those that no one recognizes or even notices in the church and the world around us.

And yes, this is another really long post.  It was a long summer which I had to think on these things and deal with these individuals, so getting my thoughts down probably devolves into long posts.

[JohnsonJones]

Now in relation to this

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Now, when the church moved to combine the High Priests and the Elders, the Young man felt it was still offensive.  The High Priests still acted as if they were High Priests and there was a distinct discrimination that the Young Man felt in the wards he attended when he attended.  They ensured everyone knew who was a High Priest and who was not.  The combining of the quorum just made things worse, and he felt it was done to make sure that people like his father would forever be discriminated against…NOT because they did anything wicked or wrong, but because they were not part of that good old boy club that chose who was to be a High Priest and who was not.

I am NOT unsympathetic to this young man.  I can understand this, and though it is NOT the Norm I have observed (and it may be due to me being in one group and not the other and so being oblivious, I can admit it may simply be ignorance on my part) I HAVE seen this on a few occasions.

Due to this, if it were something we could do about (which it isn't) I would advocate that we put it where anyone of a certain age (let's say 45 or 50) that have been faithful (tithepaying, etc) for the past decade is made a High Priest.

This would do several things.

1. Currently many young people are leaving the LDS church.  This has always been so, but it seems to me to be moreso in recent years.  I think part of this is what motivates young people.  After they receive the priesthood rank of Elder and/or are married in the Temple, what other goal do they have.  Especially among young men we see that many seem to leave the church.  This would give them some hope or motivation while in their young foolish age (just a term for lack of better terminology) to keep working for.  It wouldn't keep everyone, but for some it would work as a stopgap to keep them working to "progress" even while they work through their doubts.

2. There IS a good old boy network in some locations where the handsome and charismatic, the powerful, and rich, get rewarded while the poor, humble, or meek do NOT get any leadership positions.  This would at least do away with them all becoming High Priests while other faithful members become what I have termed above..."the Forgotten Mormons."

3.  In the same light as #2, it would NOT do away with it, but much like joining Elder's quorum and High Priests quorum a few months ago helped to hopefully alleviate some of the groupings and discrimination among various groups (rich and poor, racial, etc) experience in a few of our wards (and that is a few in my opinion, among thousands that do not).

Just some thoughts to show I am not ENTIRELY callous to what the Young man experienced nor his thoughts.  However, the IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE, is even with the above situations, rewards in heaven are NOT based upon Position given to men on earth, but upon what the LORD judges.  HE is the final judge and to him, it seems apparent in the scriptures, FAR more important is HOW we conduct ourselves.

In that same light, IF there is a "Forgotten Mormon" in a ward who experiences this type of discrimination or prejudice or whatever one wants to call it, but remains faithful, I HOPE, if there is JUSTICE in heaven, that such an individual who has dealt with FAR more trials in staying faithful in the gospel than those who did not have this struggle, will be rewarded that much more in the Life to come.  If nothing else to show those that could not bear such trials that bearing such and enduring to the end truly IS justified when even those in the church itself (though NOT the gospel, hopefully we all are brothers in the gospel) is against the member to some degree.

In my foolish and ridiculous opinion (perhaps, in this arena).

Edited September 3, 2018 by JohnsonJones
clarifying

[Traveler]

While I was on my mission - I served a lot with students at universities in the North Western USA.  My first area was Moscow Idaho and Pullman Washington (both college towns) which had not just strong local wards but also strong university wards for students.  I encountered a young man that was a member but not coming to church.  He was not what I would call an apostate - but there were a lot of thing he did not like about the church.  When I discovered he was a member - I accused him of being a "lost sheep" and myself a shepherd specifically sent to find "lost sheep".   He looked at me - and I will never forget - he said, "I am not lost - I am hiding." 

Since this encounter I have discovered that most lost sheep are not really lost - But they are either themselves hiding or hiding something.  Sometimes what they are hiding they are trying to hide from themselves - and so their reason for hiding is a lie.  A lie they may tell themselves or that they hear from somewhere else and believe.  There is no principle taught in the church that white men are in charge.  Those that think it so - make up this principle to themselves.  

As a side note - the linage of Ephraim has a unique calling in the Church in the last days - and yes some would define such a calling to a unique ethnicity as a racial bias.

 

The Traveler

[Sunday21]

My bishop is a black refugee from Africa. On the bishopric we have an immigrant from the Philippines  and one white guy. We have a university and a college in my ward so we have lots of educated people. We are between 1/3 to 1/2 Caucasian depending on the year. 

Not happy with the composition of your ward? Why not attend another ward from time to time. Spanish ward maybe? You can always visit other wards.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Sunday21

[Overwatch]

52 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

My bishop is a black refugee from Africa. On the bishopric we have an immigrant from the Filipinos and one white guy. We have a university and a colleague in my ward so we have lots of educated people. We are between 1/3 to 1/2 Caucasian depending on the year. 

Not happy with the composition of your ward? Why not attend another ward from time to time. Spanish ward maybe? You can always visit other wards.

Auto-correct is a monster sometimes

[Overwatch]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

As a side note - the linage of Ephraim has a unique calling in the Church in the last days - and yes some would define such a calling to a unique ethnicity as a racial bias

I have not considered this at all since all of us baptized are blood born Israelite or adopted into the House of Israel.

[Overwatch]

@JohnsonJonesI really like this post.

 

It kind of reminds me of The Book of Mormon Prophet Samuel The Lamanite. I make sure to call him The Prophet Samuel on purpose if ever he comes up in conversation. They even make his toy at the lds book stores with dark brown skin. I think sometimes people forget The Book of Mormon people were a mix of Ephraim (Ishmael) , Manasseh (Lehi), Juda (Mulek) and possibly Jaredite (Coriantumr)

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Great read, thanks JohnsonJones!

[anatess2]

22 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

My bishop is a black refugee from Africa. On the bishopric we have an immigrant from the Philippines  and one white guy. We have a university and a college in my ward so we have lots of educated people. We are between 1/3 to 1/2 Caucasian depending on the year. 

Not happy with the composition of your ward? Why not attend another ward from time to time. Spanish ward maybe? You can always visit other wards.

I feel bad for this ward in the Philippines... the entire bishopric is brown-skinned Filipino, the auxiliary presidencies are all brown-skinned Filipino, the entire Stake presidency and high council are also brown-skinned Filipinos... well, at least they got this one 6'3", 220 lb white missionary companion to a 5'4", 100lb brown-skinned Filipino.  Then we're not all just brown-skinned Filipinos.