Venus in Daylight

[Jamie123]

I've been told from childhood that you can see Venus in full daylight if you know exactly where to look. I even had an astronomy program once that had a "daylight" option which, when you clicked it still showed Venus.

Well I've never been able to see it despite trying many times. All that happens is that a bunch of squiggly things start dancing in my eyes.

This morning I was waiting for the bus to work. It was twilight - too bright to see any of the stars but Venus stood out amazingly bright, just to the left of the Moon. I thought "Just remember where it is relative to the Moon, and you'll easily be able to see it when it's brighter."

Well it's full daylight now and I just went outside to look for Venus. I can't see any sign of it - despite looking exactly in the spot where I know it is. It seems incredible that something that seemed so bright and clear has just faded in the daylight. (I feel there ought to be a spiritual lesson there.)

The squiggly things were back in force though, taunting me as usual.

Just for interest sake, has anyone else had any success seeing Venus in daytime?

[jerome1232]

1 hour ago, Jamie123 said:

I've been told from childhood that you can see Venus in full daylight if you know exactly where to look. I even had an astronomy program once that had a "daylight" option which, when you clicked it still showed Venus.

Well I've never been able to see it despite trying many times. All that happens is that a bunch of squiggly things start dancing in my eyes.

This morning I was waiting for the bus to work. It was twilight - too bright to see any of the stars but Venus stood out amazingly bright, just to the left of the Moon. I thought "Just remember where it is relative to the Moon, and you'll easily be able to see it when it's brighter."

Well it's full daylight now and I just went outside to look for Venus. I can't see any sign of it - despite looking exactly in the spot where I know it is. It seems incredible that something that seemed so bright and clear has just faded in the daylight. (I feel there ought to be a spiritual lesson there.)

The squiggly things were back in force though, taunting me as usual.

Just for interest sake, has anyone else had any success seeing Venus in daytime?

I think Venus, and all planets "wander". (isn't the origin of the word planet "wandering star"?) Anyways I'm fairly certain that where you spot Venus at night, isn't where it will be during the day. Maybe viewing it a few times before day break to get an idea of its path might help.

edit: I also think it doesn't stray too far from the sun.

Edited November 30, 2018 by jerome1232

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

I've been told from childhood that you can see Venus in full daylight if you know exactly where to look. I even had an astronomy program once that had a "daylight" option which, when you clicked it still showed Venus.

Well I've never been able to see it despite trying many times. All that happens is that a bunch of squiggly things start dancing in my eyes.

This morning I was waiting for the bus to work. It was twilight - too bright to see any of the stars but Venus stood out amazingly bright, just to the left of the Moon. I thought "Just remember where it is relative to the Moon, and you'll easily be able to see it when it's brighter."

Well it's full daylight now and I just went outside to look for Venus. I can't see any sign of it - despite looking exactly in the spot where I know it is. It seems incredible that something that seemed so bright and clear has just faded in the daylight. (I feel there ought to be a spiritual lesson there.)

The squiggly things were back in force though, taunting me as usual.

Just for interest sake, has anyone else had any success seeing Venus in daytime?

Jaime,

Jerome is correct.  Both the moon and Venus move in relation to the sun, the earth, and each other.

The idea that it is visible "in broad daylight" is misleading.  Remember that it is only visible when it is able to reflect the light from the sun.  That would mean that it needs to be in or near the opposite end of the sky as the sun.  So, that would mean it is only visible around dawn and dusk.  Much more light than that and you will have a hard time actually seeing it.  Close to noon, it will be either completely or nearly impossible to see with the unaided eye.

Gospel message?  Well, Christ is referred to as the "Morning Star".  Don't confuse that with Lucifer being "Son of the Morning".

[mikbone]

I am an amature astronomist.  Link to my scope. http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/telescopes/18UC/index.php

I got a great deal on a used one because the guy who bought it realized that it was too big and unwieldy 😀

Venus is an amazing object to view and Probably one of the best planets to observe and follow over a period of time to understand the night sky.  And you dont need anything but your eyes to appreciate it.  Although a nice set of binoculars can really make it a gem.

Anyway...  you can see it during the day (just like sometimes you can see the moon during the day).  But it can be challenging...  

Venus is currently the “morning star” i.e. Lucifer.  And it is in gibbous phase.  I have observed it over the past 6 months just like Galileo did and watched it go from a full night star through gibbous phase into crescent phase and then transition to a morning star.  Of note is that Galileo first recognized that Venus goes theough phases just like the moon which proved that the geocentric model was incorrect and that Copernicus’ Geocentric model was actually correct.

Thanks Venus!

And curiously, Venus is brighest when it is at 27% crescent phase.

The above pic is a diagram of the solar system today.  You can see that Venus is on our side of the Sun which allows us to appreciate its phases.  

There are many more interesting facts about Venus.  But Ill stop there.

[Jamie123]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Jaime,

Jerome is correct.  Both the moon and Venus move in relation to the sun, the earth, and each other.

The idea that it is visible "in broad daylight" is misleading.  Remember that it is only visible when it is able to reflect the light from the sun.  That would mean that it needs to be in or near the opposite end of the sky as the sun.  So, that would mean it is only visible around dawn and dusk.  Much more light than that and you will have a hard time actually seeing it.  Close to noon, it will be either completely or nearly impossible to see with the unaided eye.

Gospel message?  Well, Christ is referred to as the "Morning Star".  Don't confuse that with Lucifer being "Son of the Morning".

You're right - the planets do wander (that is actually what the Greek πλανήτης (planetes) means), as does the Moon. But Venus - nor even the Moon - would not have moved much in the hour-or-so between me seeing them at the bus stop and looking for them in daylight from the car park here at my work. The relative positions of the Earth, Moon, Sun and Venus would not have changed appreciably in that period - what would have changed is the Earth had rotated so as to make the sun visible.

Now that I know roughly where Venus is relative to the Moon (which should hold true for a few days at least) maybe I'll try getting the telescope out and looking for it.

Oddly enough, "Lucifer" is Latin for "light bearer" and does not appear in the Hebrew scriptures at all. It was the common name for Venus at the time St. Jerome translated the Bible into Latin, and it's been passed on into the KJV and certain other English versions. Construing "Light Bringer Son of the Morning" (in Hebrew) from Isiah 14 as an allusion to the morning star, Jerome substituted the term most familiar to him. There's even debate about whether this is even a reference to Satan at all.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

But Venus - nor even the Moon - would not have moved much in the hour-or-so between me seeing them at the bus stop and looking for them in daylight from the car park here at my work. The relative positions of the Earth, Moon, Sun and Venus would not have changed appreciably in that period - what would have changed is the Earth had rotated so as to make the sun visible.

Sorry.  I did not catch that the time frame in question was just a couple of hours.

But the rest of my post would then apply.  The only reason stars (or highly reflective planets) would show up in the sky is because everything else is dark enough to allow it to shine. 

When the sun rises, the sky turns blue.  There is a lot of wave science that goes into explaining why the sky is blue.  But just accept for now that, because the sky is blue, it requires a much shinier or larger shiny object to show through the blue.  The brighter the day, the less visible Venus will be.

[zil]

If you really want to know about Venus, you need to read Perelandra (by C. S. Lewis - but it's book 2 in a series, so you might first want to read about Mars in book 1, Out of the Silent Planet).  Don't give away book 3, That Hideous Strength, I haven't started it yet!

[Jamie123]

1 minute ago, zil said:

If you really want to know about Venus, you need to read Perelandra (by C. S. Lewis - but it's book 2 in a series, so you might first want to read about Mars in book 1, Out of the Silent Planet).  Don't give away book 3, That Hideous Strength, I haven't started it yet!

I love those books - "That Hideous Strength" gets panned a lot (including by Lewis fans) but I love it. It's one of those books ("Lord of the Rings" is another) I can just pick up, open at random and disappear into. 

[MrShorty]

I have successfully observed Venus in daylight on 2 occasions:

1) When I was a teen, randomly lying on the grass in the backyard staring at the sky, and my eyes managed to focus on a small distant dot that never moved against the backdrop of the sky. Years later, comparing to my 2nd observation, I determined that this was Venus and not some weather balloon.

2) A couple of years ago, on a day when the moon was expected to occult Venus during the day, I was hoping to catch the event before the clouds rolled in. Like you, I noted the position of the moon and Venus before the sun rose so I would know where to look for Venus. Even knowing where it should be, it was difficult to see (and I had decent seeing, it sounds like your atmosphere was really turbulent that day). It was like I needed to stare at the correct spot and wait for my eyes/mind to "focus" on Venus. With practice it got easier.

So, it can be done. It is not easy. Part of it is knowing exactly where to look (the moon can help when it is close to Venus), and part of it is getting your eyes to "focus" on the little, faint, whitish-grayish spot against the bright blue background.

[mikbone]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.space.com/15036-venus-daylight-skywatching-tips.html

 

From Wikipedia

Naked eye observations of Venus during daylight hours exist in several anecdotes and records. Astronomer Edmund Halley calculated its maximum naked eye brightness in 1716, when many Londoners were alarmed by its appearance in the daytime. French emperor Napoleon Bonaparte once witnessed a daytime apparition of the planet while at a reception in Luxembourg.^[124] Another historical daytime observation of the planet took place during the inauguration of the American president Abraham Lincoln in Washington, D.C., on 4 March 1865.^[125] Although naked eye visibility of Venus's phases is disputed, records exist of observations of its crescent.^[126]