mmm12345 Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Elphaba, I will say that I think you're being a little rough on me. History has proven that even real live scientists make and have made mistakes. Some hypotheses that have been theorized in the past have actually been proven false, so it's not a crime to speculate or even assume that this theory could also be very wrong. As far as dinos and critical thinking, I don't get the connection. What is so absurb about it? MMM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I don't like the direction this thread is going. You are right, no matter which side you take, civility is all important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Moksha - I know I was being civil (but insistant) for a change. But it is easy for me on this issue. People can believe what they want, but when it comes to this issue in the science arena, my side already won. Oh, and as far as the specifics of FSMism..... I just spent a 16 hour day getting to, coaching, and getting back from, a wrestling tournament. I am even more dingy than usual. All those questions made my brain hurt. PS - Reni is 30-2 as a Middle School/Junior High wrestler at 68 this year. She's lost twice to the same kid, but has beaten him too. Other than him she has been pretty dominant. She is on track to become the first girl to win the Middle School/Junior High State Championships in Arizona. There are two MS/JH state tournaments in this state, and the kid who beats her occasionally (an elite type club wrestler) is going to the other one (one allows the all-star club teams the other doesn't). All of the top tier kids are good friends and we'll probably spend the weekened before state wrestling with the two Tristians (both national studs), to get ready for our respective state tournaments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Best of luck to Reni. How about posting a pic of her? I bet the FSM would be quite a wrestler too. All those noodley appendages would make for formidable grappling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I'd love to see the FSM go against two WWE tag-team hard-cores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 FYI: Creationists do not deny that species adapt to their environments (sometimes called 'micro-evolution.') We do question whether species can actually evolve into completely different species (monkeys to humans, for example). IMHO, the basic question is one of origins. Are we here by chance, or did God make it happen? Just a note on a few things:1. Is it possible that man evolves from a single cell creature called a zygote? - Point: it is possible for things to evolve very rapidly with the correct “presets”. I would point out here that if it was not for the scientific advances in understanding DNA no one would know that a human zygote is different from the zygote of a monkey. This distinction is not in scripture.2. Concerning chance – I believe this is a reference to the question of random events or the possibility that something can happen that is not somehow linked to something previous – in other words: everything that exist has a cause. As far as I know it has never been scientifically proven that something can come about with a cause that enables it. The closest possibly is quantum mechanics. But even then there are linked relationships of cause and effects.3. Does G-d give commandments that cannot be ever be possibly broken? If G-d gives a commandment does that not imply that something else is possible? Please note that G-d commanded that all the living things reproduce after their own kind. Why would he give that commandment if there was no other possibility?The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 · Hidden Hidden Just a note on a few things:1. Is it possible that man evolves from a single cell creature called a zygote? - A zygote is not a single-cell creature. It is a cell that is the result of fertilization.Elphaba Link to comment
a-train Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Just a note on a few things:Please note that G-d commanded that all the living things reproduce after their own kind. Why would he give that commandment if there was no other possibility?But is that other possibility the refusal to reproduce or reproduction of a different kind? Another question is: Is there any species that can actually decide to sexually produce a different species, or would the instance occur without the foreknowledge of the organism? Of course, if it was beyond their control, it would be impossible for them to obey in the first place.-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Another question is: Is there any species that can actually decide to sexually produce a different species, or would the instance occur without the foreknowledge of the organism? -a-train I doubt the creation of a giant butterball turkey took place with the consent of the turkey progenitors. Same as with Tangelos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 But is that other possibility the refusal to reproduce or reproduction of a different kind? Another question is: Is there any species that can actually decide to sexually produce a different species, or would the instance occur without the foreknowledge of the organism? Of course, if it was beyond their control, it would be impossible for them to obey in the first place.-a-trainThank your for considering the question but let us not lose track of the main consideration. That is if there is Biblical reason to believe that living things could produce a different species. The commandment by G-d implies that living things can reproduce and can, under some circumstance, produce a different kind. Else why bother making the commandment? If there was no possible way a living thing can produce a different kind there would be no need for the commandment as given. Is it possible that G-d is telling us something very important? In the book and movie Jurassic Park there is an assumption that frogs (embryos) could be modified to reproduce dinosaurs. This is not all that far fetched. The next step beyond cloning (which can be done) is to modify an embryo to reproduce something quite different. Most likely this will happen within our lifetime. I do not think it wise to hang one’s religious validation on the notion that this cannot ever happen.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Excuse my technical mind, and forgive my slow abilities in searching the scriptures, but could you refer me to the passage wherein 'G-d commanded that all the living things reproduce after their own kind.'?Are we looking to Genesis 1:24? It says: 'And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.'I am unable to locate the actual reference wherein the LORD gave a commandment to the organisms themselves that they must reproduce after their own kind. Please help me out on that.-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I was thinking the same thing, a-train. It seems that the creation passages in scripture are showing that God was speaking His plan out loud before enacting it, not commanding cows to only give birth to cows, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 As far as man tampering with the human genetic code, I remember an article suggesting that the gene that allows sturgeon to survive at 50 degrees below zero, might be very handy spliced into the human genetic code during the next glaciation period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 As far as man tampering with the human genetic code, I remember an article suggesting that the gene that allows sturgeon to survive at 50 degrees below zero, might be very handy spliced into the human genetic code during the next glaciation periodI want one of gene's that will allow me to be comfortable when it is 120 around here in the summertime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I think the ability to breathe under water would save a lot of lives and promote water sports. -a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Excuse my technical mind, and forgive my slow abilities in searching the scriptures, but could you refer me to the passage wherein 'G-d commanded that all the living things reproduce after their own kind.'?Are we looking to Genesis 1:24? It says: 'And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.'I am unable to locate the actual reference wherein the LORD gave a commandment to the organisms themselves that they must reproduce after their own kind. Please help me out on that.-a-trainYou are Soooo right - the commandment is not Biblical - I stand corrected.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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