JohnsonJones

We didn’t leave Boy Scouts, they left us, says Latter-day Saint apostle

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On 11/15/2019 at 8:55 PM, Vort said:

Reaction #3: They can rejoice all they want. In twenty years, BSA will exist as a pale shadow of its former self, if it exists at all.

I think that it is possible that in 20 years the BSA may become much more powerful in affecting the lives many more of American Youth - and that is why the Church has decided to take a different direction.

 

The Traveler

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On 11/18/2019 at 11:48 AM, Traveler said:

I think that it is possible that in 20 years the BSA may become much more powerful in affecting the lives many more of American Youth

What evidence do you have supporting this claim? Given that the Boy Scouts are in rapid decline, I find this hard to believe. It's like saying Sears will be a retail powerhouse in twenty years. 

Edited by MormonGator

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4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

What evidence do you have supporting this claim? Given that the Boy Scouts are in rapid decline, I find this hard to believe. It's like saying Sears will be a retail powerhouse in twenty years. 

Just a guess of sorts based in the displacement of boys in society and the propensity in a growing number in our changing society that would exploit such a change.   I did not intend to infer that the changes in the youth being affected would be what Latter-day Saints would categorize as beneficial.  

 

The Traveler

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On 11/15/2019 at 4:38 PM, JohnsonJones said:

Interesting comments on the Church's decision to leave the Boy Scouts...

We Didn't leave the Boy Scouts, they left us

So, what is going on here?

I'm hoping the decision was still as they originally stated, in that it was the need for a world-wide program for all the members of the church.  The program they have I feel IS inspired, or at least I felt it was inspired when learning about the basics of it (more this Sunday I believe for everyone out there), so I could readily accept that reason as the WHY they did it.

This article leave me more wondering about it though.  Not sure what I think about the article after reading it.

I am not sure how these quotes and the other statements made by the Church conflict. Local wards have been given stewardship to call who they feel will be able to serve in a calling. The Church headquarters may or may not agree, but they can't go around to every ward and monitor every calling provided to every individual and give their command. They give principles. If a local stake president or bishop abuses their authority we are fully aware of who they are accountable before for those decisions.

The decision of leaving BSA wouldn't have come down to one decision and one decision solely. The public relations can be correct as well as the quotes, and I would say they are.

I wouldn't put much weight in the article that appears to be twisting/wresting words for a personal agenda.

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So, the BSA has mortgaged Philmont.  Philmont was donated to BSA in the 1930s by Waite Phillips, whose family is apparently saying that the mortgage is a breach of the donor agreement.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2019/11/22/boy-scouts-mortgage-vast/

 

To Hades with ‘em.  All of them.  

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

So, the BSA has mortgaged Philmont.  Philmont was donated to BSA in the 1930s by Waite Phillips, whose family is apparently saying that the mortgage is a breach of the donor agreement.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2019/11/22/boy-scouts-mortgage-vast/

 

To Hades with ‘em.  All of them.  

That's a pretty big shock there.  Never got to Philmont but I've heard a lot about it.

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6 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Local wards have been given stewardship to call who they feel will be able to serve in a calling.

That's what I meant earlier by stating my opinion that in some ways, the Church seemed (to me) to be (unintentionally) ruining scouts and using it as their own organization.

While I think it was good that there were LDS scout leaders and a lot of LDS people made great scout leaders, the problem with making it a church calling was that a lot of people who were called really didn't know what they were doing.   There is a reason why LDS scout troops often had a bad repuation among National Forest Rangers, Park Rangers, and Search and Rescue groups.   The reputation wasn't all unwarranted.

Scout leaders were supposed to be experienced outdoors men and the original intent for scouts was to learn life skills through outdoor activities.   Many scout leaders called in wards were great outdoorsmen and experienced.   Others were not and quite frankly, didn't have a clue of what they were doing.   This isn't meant to be a critisism against them though as us as members feel obligated to accept Church callings.   That's why there were so many LDS troops that have a bad reputation (and most scouts killed have been LDS as well).

Now before anyone tells me that all of our callings come from God and that I don't know what I am talking about, I was called twice to scout positions when I shouldn't have been (because of my age-it was against Church policy).   So, not all callings necessarily come directly from God.   We just have to do the best we can with accepting the callings we have, but if we really aren't ready for certain callings, we should say so.

As long as Scout Leader was considered to be a Church calling, I don't know for how much longer the relationship between the BSA and our Church could have lasted without increasing problems.   It was causing a lot of problems.   Perhaps that is part of the reason we are leaving; now we can do our own thing, but I don't know.  I obviously have no say in the decision. 

There is also the problem of non-LDS scouts feeling excluded from scouts when they try to join and LDS troop.   In theory all boys are supposed to be allowed (and aren't intentionally excluded) into the troop regardless of what religion they belong to, but when I was a scout and scout leader, all of us were always LDS (though we would have welcomed non-members if given the chance).   Only when I worked at the scout camp did I spend time with non-member scouts.   

Although scout membership is going to drop, this might be a good thing for both our church and the BSA, at least if the BSA can survive the sharp drop in membership.   

 

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Moonbeast32     0

Moonbeast32

The difference between us and BSA is that to us, people are people, and "gay" isn't an identity. It therefore doesn't matter what position they serve in our church so long as the walk uprightly the path of discipleship.

 

As soon as you incorporate LGBT terms as part of a person's identity, you are coming dangerously close to justifying sin because of some false notion of respect and tolerance. We know that before anyone was gay, they were individual sons and daughters of God.

Copies from above.

************************************************

You are right   And that is why the BSA left us.  We are of this world but this BSA worldly changes are not what we of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can or will tolerate. Our Youth do have joint activities but they are carefully monitored. Four deep leadership.  And Yes we have LGBTQ members but they must live up lives and have only one same partner all the time and never encourage anyone else to live their lifestyle.   And yes many Eagles are sad to see this happening. OUr youth can join a scout troop on their own to get Eagle but not within our church as there will be no units in our church.  Now in certain areas one can be a lone Scout to gain Eagle. 

We are NOT going to run our own BSA or Scouting. We have a very different program with no merit badges or anything like it and no Eagle Scouts either. 

Edited by snbcooke
adding

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