Personal Revelation

[Traveler]

17 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

I think that is a very faithful way to look at that. Taking the prophets as our guide and praying for understanding and help in applying their words to make sure we understand.  I understand that now. Thank you. If I got what you were saying!

Isaiah is one of my favorite books of scripture.  Isaiah tells us that we learn line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept.  I believe he is talking about personal revelation and that we can only receive personal revelation as long as we are personally prepared to receive.   Thus, I believe that personal revelation is not so much to figure out what applies to others as it is to know what applies to us.

But I would point to another favorite scripture - It is Moroni Chapter 10.  I know it is popular to look at this scripture to consider prayer concerning the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon - but reading beyond the initial verses of this chapter - Moroni speaks to spiritual gifts.  It is interesting that Moroni indicates that spiritual gifts are not just for the individual but for the "edification" of all.   Part of our personal revelation is recognizing other's spiritual gifts.

 

The Traveler

[Rchrdnlsn]

On 12/19/2019 at 2:47 PM, Vort said:

I think this is wise. I agree with you that you should measure all things by the standards we have been given.

The idea that God told your friend to enter into a same-sex relationship doesn't pass the sniff test. While LiterateParakeet is right in that your friend's supposed "revelation" isn't your concern, you can still safely assume that no such "revelation" took place, or if it did, it was not a revelation from God.

What is the SNIFF test? 

[Vort]

4 minutes ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

What is the SNIFF test? 

Stands for "Seems Naturally, Intuitively Factual at Face (value)". The last word is left out of the acronym because "the SNIFFV test" sounds stupid, and also sounds like it might be the fifth iteration of some test, which would just confuse everyone. Remember Malcolm the Tenth!

[Rchrdnlsn]

Wow...I feel like I used to be able to detect the Spirit and be able to discern. but now I am just struggling.  I don't think God has reveled to me different things than what the prophet has said.  But I have feelings that I don't like about it.  

I took great comfort in this scripture

 No one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., for he receiveth them even as Moses. And thou shalt be obedient unto the things which I shall give unto him, even as Aaron, to declare faithfully the commandments and the revelations, with power and authority unto the church. And if thou art led at any time by the Comforter to speak or teach, or at all times by the way of commandment unto the church, thou mayest do it. But thou shalt not write by way of commandment, but by wisdom. (D&C 28:2-5)

I am greatful God has provided a way for us to not be deceived.  Also this dispensation is different than all other in the ways that God has set things up through commands in D&C.  I read some church history about some other guys who thought they received revelation from God about certain things that went against what the scriptures and prophets teach.  That was helpful to know that others make mistakes it what is revealed to them.  Just some of my thoughts as I have thought more about revelation.  Thanks everyone.  I would still love to know thoughts, suggestions and what ever else you could give me.  Thanks 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Rchrdnlsn

[Rchrdnlsn]

On 12/20/2019 at 12:04 PM, Traveler said:

I will try to make this as straight forward and simple as possible with a reference to Isaiah.  Isaiah is talking to King Ahaz and the king just is not getting it - so Isaiah says something along the line - "The reason you are having a problem with this is because you are not loyal."  Granted, I have taken the liberty to change the wording slightly to make the point more clear.  To understand lets take a second and look into the problem king Ahaz was having.  The king was doing some good things but his heart was not in it.  He was king and was all about his own agenda.  He wanted what he wanted and that was where his heart was.  Isaiah was calling him out because of his doubt in following G-d over his confusion with his personal agenda.

I will use a modern example of a young man (returned missionary) was having hearing the spirit.  His temple marriage was falling apart and ending and he did not understand why.  He had daily prayer, daily scripture study, fasted often and attended the temple at least once a week.  At the time he indicated to me that the spirit told him how to save his marriage.  I attempted to add a little sense but he was so sure he should listen to the spirit over me (and I would add just about everybody else).  He would argue that he was doing everything that G-d asked him to do.

Fast forward to today and this young man's marriage was not saved but worse this guy no longer attend church, has moved in with girlfriend (broken the law of Chasity), and now claims the spirit speaks more clearly to him now than at anytime of his life.  The spirit converted him to the church, sent him on a mission and told him the lady to marry and now it is telling him to turn away for all these things.  I could drill down deeper - but that is not the point.  How, not to be loyal is not the question - being loyal is the solution.  The best example in scripture is the epoch of Job.  With Job it would seem that his loyalty was the engine of his loses and struggle - perhaps I should say Trial.  Because he was loyal to G-d (rather than his own personal agenda) through his trial - he was blessed many fold.

Being loyal in not keeping the commandments through happy sunny days - being loyal means being loyal through great trial.  Being loyal does not being loyal and long and one's personal agenda is being satisfied - it is being loyal when your personal agenda is being shattered.  So how do you know when the spirit is guiding?  You will know when things get difficult and seem to go wrong - and the spirit continues to inspire the same things it always has.  And when someone hears when the spirit speaks - there is no doubt the spirit is speaking.

 

The Traveler

So traveler, thank you.  If I feel like God is telling me to do something that goes against everything I believe in then that would be a good way to judge that its not from God.  It is not what the Spirit has told me my whole life.  It doesn't feel like it should.  I just want to find peace.  Anyways.  Just thinking about more of what you said.  Thanks, 

[Traveler]

19 hours ago, Rchrdnlsn said:

So traveler, thank you.  If I feel like God is telling me to do something that goes against everything I believe in then that would be a good way to judge that its not from God.  It is not what the Spirit has told me my whole life.  It doesn't feel like it should.  I just want to find peace.  Anyways.  Just thinking about more of what you said.  Thanks, 

I thought to share something from my life.  I served in the army during Vietnam - I also served a mission.  When I returned home I was having difficulty dating - it seemed to me that the ladies I dated were immature and disconnected from reality.  From my reading of ancient scripture I noticed that often marriages were "arranged" by divine direction.  Through fasting and prayer - I concluded that G-d ought to arrange a marriage for me and I "told" G-d how he ought to do it (provide me with a sign) so he and I could be on the same page.

Within a few months all the sign elements were given - but the problem was that I did not like the particular lady all that much and likewise she somewhat resented me.  I attempted to discuss the matter with her - but she would have none of it.  Truth be - I was quite relieved but also much spiritually confused.  Eventually I determined to listen more (interesting this came through a friend that was a Buddhist priest).

There were many ladies that seemed right but I just could not get spiritual confirmation.  In essence I would ask if this was the one I should marry.  I met a particular young lady that according to all my logic seemed right - but still I could not get spiritual confirmation.  Without the spiritual confirmation we (mostly me) decided to break it off.  By the next day things did not seem right but I could not get spiritual confirmation to continue with the  break up or to try to reconnect.  After much prayer and mediation a very strong thought came - in essence that thought was that G-d would not tell me what to do - I had to decide and be responsible for my choice - if my marriage failed it would be my fault and not G-d's.  I contacted a lady I had asked out during all this and told her I would not be taking her out.  I then call the young lady I had broken off.  We got together and I told her of my difficulties and that I had decided to ask her to be my wife. 

She accepted and we married - It has been over 45 years and I can clearly say that this strange epoch in logic and spirituality has been the single greatest accomplishment (spiritually and logically) of my life.  I could not have chosen better - My greatest goal is to complete her and love her as she has me.   I thought to also add that in looking back - I do not think I could have been prepared better.  Marriage has been quite difficult - and had I not been so prepared and committed - I do not think I would been the husband and father that I must.  It is not really about making decisions you think you want to make; as it is making the decisions you realize you should.

 

The Traveler

Edited December 24, 2019 by Traveler