Questions about Joseph Smith's

[deblldo]

well i gues my biggest question are about joseph smith. i mean i think itsperfectly understandble that would God would speak to people today, however i have read and heard that he has made many false prophecys, which (if he has ) doesnt make him aprophet at all. is this true or is it just lies made up? i also have read the prophecys he has made that have come true.

secondly is he claiming to have seen God? im not sure (thats why all the questions) but if he has then how come no one else in the bible has? and my last question ...for now.., i know that according to other people joseph smith was a fraudster (which again i dont have a problemw ith as God used many people muders and adulter's etc) but did he change his ways when he encountered God?

ok sorry if any of these questions offend they are not meant to i just want to hear it from people of this faith and not people who are dead against it.

i would be greatfull if you could help as i am thirsty to know more.

[HiJolly]

well i gues my biggest question are about joseph smith. i mean i think itsperfectly understandble that would God would speak to people today, however i have read and heard that he has made many false prophecys, which (if he has ) doesnt make him aprophet at all. is this true or is it just lies made up? i also have read the prophecys he has made that have come true.

Hi deblldo! Good questions, but I think you'd get more interaction, more views from people on your questions, if you'd open new discussion threads in the "learn about Mormonism" area. Also, we are not allowed to argue, but of course everyone can have their own opinion. So with that said...

I think we should carefully consider what a prophet is, or what a prophet is supposed to do. I think most people today have let the movies and televangelists define things to the extent that we don't understand the terms biblically anymore. For example, prophets are not perfect (take Jonah for example, or, the guy who when the children teased him for being bald cursed them and a bear came and killed them). Joseph wasn't perfect either. He said some things would happen that did not. This also happened to some biblical prophets. It's important to not build up prophets too much. They are people who hear the word of God, and are called to pronounce that word (or some task) before the world. They are as human as anyone else.

secondly is he claiming to have seen God? im not sure (thats why all the questions) but if he has then how come no one else in the bible has?

You mean Stephen didn't see God? He said he did, if I recall correctly... And Moses, too. That's one from each Testiment. I'm curious why you would say no one in the Bible has. Why would you say that?

and my last question ...for now.., i know that according to other people joseph smith was a fraudster (which again i dont have a problemw ith as God used many people muders and adulter's etc) but did he change his ways when he encountered God?

Yes, he did change his ways. After a bit. But I really don't agree that he was ever a fraudster. Where did you hear this, and what is the evidence for the idea? Have you read the latest book on Joseph's life, Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman, a history professor emeritus at Columbia University? (and LDS church member)

ok sorry if any of these questions offend they are not meant to i just want to hear it from people of this faith and not people who are dead against it.

i would be greatfull if you could help as i am thirsty to know more.

Joseph was a young man in a specific cultural setting that we do not see today. The more I learn about him, the more I respect what he did and how he did it. He was not perfect, but I don't believe he was a fraud either. I believe he really did see God, and became a true prophet. Again, please continue the dialog, but I recommend you post each question as a new thread in the "learn about Mormonism" area of this web site.

HiJolly

[MorningStar]

Hi Deb!

If you believe God answers prayers, I think the best thing you can do is read The Book of Mormon and ask Him if it is true. It testifies of our Savior Jesus Christ. If the Spirit witnesses to you that it is inspired of God, then you will know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

This is my favorite chapter in The Book of Mormon, when Jesus is ministering to the people and blesses thousands of them one by one. People today say that the Bible isn't true and that Jesus was just a regular man, but The Book of Mormon defends the Bible and testifies that He is The Christ.

:)

MorningStar

[NeuroTypical]

i have read and heard that he has made many false prophecys, which (if he has ) doesnt make him aprophet at all. is this true or is it just lies made up? i also have read the prophecys he has made that have come true.

Take a look through the links on this page. It's from FAIR, and discusses all the specific claims critics have made about the issue.

and my last question ...for now.., i know that according to other people joseph smith was a fraudster (which again i dont have a problemw ith as God used many people muders and adulter's etc) but did he change his ways when he encountered God?

Joseph Smith was undoubetdly a unique character who has been seen differently by plenty of different people. Here is a list of articles written about his character.

ok sorry if any of these questions offend they are not meant to i just want to hear it from people of this faith and not people who are dead against it.

That is so cool to hear! I think you've come to the right place.

LM

[deblldo]

well thankyou for all your help. i have to admit that my knowledge comes mainly from what i have been taught in church or what i have read on the internet.

im still not sure about the prophet thing as i always thought the way to tell if a prophet from God was to see if what he prophesied came true, if it didnt then he wasnt from God because God wouldnt lie or be mistaken. but i would like to hear more about this especially the bald guy hee hee.

a little bit of research found me lots and lots of verse's in the bible where people have seen God however i am more familar with verse's such as exodus 33:20, jn 1:18, jn6:46,1tim1:17, 1tim 6:16 etc etc. so now i dont know what to think.

i know that people used of God were not perfect at the beginning but changed there ways afterwards.

its really hard when all of my friends family and church are telling me to have nothing to do with these people but i am beginning to realise that with God anything is possible and that it wont just be baptist's in heaven

if i am annoying with all the questions plz let me know but just a few more.

is it true you guys dont drink tea or coffee? can you tell me more about the place or planet kolob? and what is the pearl of great price and where can i get a copy?

ok well thanks again for your help.

[Daniel]

if i am annoying with all the questions plz let me know but just a few more.

is it true you guys dont drink tea or coffee? can you tell me more about the place or planet kolob? and what is the pearl of great price and where can i get a copy?

Good questions. We can seperate those questions to two different topics. The Word of Wisdom which would answer your first question and Kolob and Pearl of Great Price can be a second topic. If you want to start them that would be great. Perhaps you have specifics or want some misconceptions cleared up?

[HiJolly]

well thankyou for all your help. i have to admit that my knowledge comes mainly from what i have been taught in church or what i have read on the internet.

Reminds me of the NT scripture ...and who can believe, except they be taught? And who can teach, except they be sent? (paraphrase)

IOW, to some extent the practice of faith requires hearing something to have faith in. Christ taught us how to know what we hear is true (or false)--- by trying it through our actions. If we believe it is good, then as we live it personally, the Spirit can lead us on, or turn us back. Practical religion at its best!

im still not sure about the prophet thing as i always thought the way to tell if a prophet from God was to see if what he prophesied came true, if it didnt then he wasnt from God because God wouldnt lie or be mistaken. but i would like to hear more about this especially the bald guy hee hee.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_kgs/2/23#23 you can read about Elisha's action there. Make you wonder, doesn't it?

I recommend you follow the links Loudmouth posted on Joseph from FAIR. Good stuff.

a little bit of research found me lots and lots of verse's in the bible where people have seen God however i am more familar with verse's such as exodus 33:20, jn 1:18, jn6:46,1tim1:17, 1tim 6:16 etc etc. so now i dont know what to think.

I find it fascinating to look at apparent contradictions, and attempt to reconcile the same. It stretches me, teaches me, helps me grow. Joseph once said "By proving contraries, truth is made manifest."

It is interesting to note in your first scripture (Exodus) Moses can't see his face, but he can see God's backside. Symbolic? I think probably so. Joseph said he was amazed that the trees around him didn't burst into flame, when he saw God. I have an ancestor that saw the Savior (not the Father), and he said he felt as though the flesh would melt from his bones. I think it has to do with the Glory of God.

Here's a scripture from the Pearl of Great Price:

Moses 1: 11.

11 But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.

The book of Moses was revealed to Joseph by prophecy, FYI.

its really hard when all of my friends family and church are telling me to have nothing to do with these people but i am beginning to realise that with God anything is possible and that it wont just be baptist's in heaven

Watch out, you're starting to sound kinda heretical! It's like most things. What we don't understand, we fear. Did you know that according to the dictionary, ANY church or religion is a "cult"? Click here for an example Uh oh.

if i am annoying with all the questions plz let me know but just a few more.

is it true you guys dont drink tea or coffee? can you tell me more about the place or planet kolob? and what is the pearl of great price and where can i get a copy?

Some Mormons do, but not if they are observant in the religion (unless medical need necessitates it). You cannot attend the temple if you don't live the Word of Wisdom, which prohibits coffee, tea, tobacco and alcohol (and habit-forming substances). The temple is not where we go to church on Sunday, it is a place where we are taught the "higher law".

Kolob is the name given a star, close to the seat of God in the heavens. I don't know what to think about it. Maybe its symbolic? People said a lot of stuff about a lot of things, but you can't understand everthing, just like you can't see God except as He wills it.

The Pearl of Great Price is online here . (did you know to click on the word 'here'?). There's gotta be a 1800 number you can order it on, but I don't know the number.

It takes a lot of guts (and faith) to look into things that people around you fear. good on you. Here's another of my fav. quotes:

"To go against the dominant thinking of your friends, of most of the people you see every day, is perhaps the most difficult act of heroism you can have." --Theodore H. White, American political writer 1915 - 1986

HiJolly

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

well thankyou for all your help. i have to admit that my knowledge comes mainly from what i have been taught in church or what i have read on the internet.

im still not sure about the prophet thing as i always thought the way to tell if a prophet from God was to see if what he prophesied came true, if it didnt then he wasnt from God because God wouldnt lie or be mistaken. but i would like to hear more about this especially the bald guy hee hee.

Best thing to help you out is, What prophecies do you feel didnt come true? Were they even prophecies to begin with? Please dont feel like your annoying us. I love the discussion. IT good to see what is going on.

[deblldo]

ok thanks again i will have a lot of studying to do on all these things you have given me to read and i aprreciate you helping me. my friends are coming to visit me today so i guess i will have more questions then lol.

can i ask how you all came to be members of this church ? i mean i know some of you were there at an early age because your parents were there, but it would be interesting to hear your stories.

ok i got some reading to do

[HiJolly]

can i ask how you all came to be members of this church ? i mean i know some of you were there at an early age because your parents were there, but it would be interesting to hear your stories.

I was born to Mormon (LDS) parents, and was taught to believe in Joseph Smith as a prophet, Jesus Christ as THE Savior, Heavenly Father as the source of all my blessings and the only One to pray to. Also was taught the Church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) was the only true Church on earth, and that I should pay tithing to the Church and that I should obey the commandments, including going to Church every Sunday.

I did that. And Heavenly Father (HF) started to let me know he was out there. He has answered my prayers in dreams, in the Still Small Voice (Holy Ghost), in 'coincidences' that were too amazing to just be chance, by pure intelligence, by profound feelings. He has also preserved my life in a substantial, impossible to ignore way.

I love the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the LDS church, as it includes all truth and makes me very, very happy. Some members (as in all churches, I suppose) are a bit narrow-minded and provincial, but I don't let them ruin my love affair with the Spirit. I am a kind of mystical Mormon, which is a bit of a contradiction, as Mormonism focuses primarily on all things in Manifestation; focuses on practical Christianity.

Let me know if you have more questions.

HiJolly

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

ok thanks again i will have a lot of studying to do on all these things you have given me to read and i aprreciate you helping me. my friends are coming to visit me today so i guess i will have more questions then lol.

can I ask how you all came to be members of this church ? i mean i know some of you were there at an early age because your parents were there, but it would be interesting to hear your stories.

ok i got some reading to do

I was born in the church. However in my teenage years I feel away and didnt care one witt for church or any thing religous. However when I turned 18, I started to think about a mission more and more. I couldnt stop, so I prepared to go and I went. When I was in the MTC I figured it was time to really see if this was a punch of hocus pocus or if it really was true. So I took the test. I read and studie the BoM and prayed. Pretty much every day to know it was true. I figured I'm not going to go teach people what I believe if I dont really belive it myself and know it is true. Lo and behold I got may answer about 1 week before departure to the mision field. I know that the BoM is what it claims to be. I know Joseph Smith was called of God. Jesus is the Savior and he did restore his preisthood to the earth once again. I cant deny it. You must also ask God if these things are true. You must ask it as if you were and are going to change your whole life when the answer comes. It is by this faith that one can know these things are true.

[charity]

ok thanks again i will have a lot of studying to do on all these things you have given me to read and i aprreciate you helping me. my friends are coming to visit me today so i guess i will have more questions then lol.

can i ask how you all came to be members of this church ? i mean i know some of you were there at an early age because your parents were there, but it would be interesting to hear your stories.

ok i got some reading to do

I was 19 years old and a sophomore in college. I had heard of Brigham Young, but not Joseph Smith. I was led to the Church and knew the minute I walked in the doors that was where God wanted me to be. I took the missionary discussions and was baptized a month later. And that is 46 years ago. (I'm old.) I have been a devout member ever since.

[deblldo]

wow thats great, thanks for sharing your stories with me. is there any one that has changed relgions? like myself i have been in a baptist church for 14 years and its kinda hard to make the switch even when you feel like its the right descion.

anyway the sisters hat visit me have invited me again to their church so maybe this time i will go

[HiJolly]

wow thats great, thanks for sharing your stories with me. is there any one that has changed relgions? like myself i have been in a baptist church for 14 years and its kinda hard to make the switch even when you feel like its the right descion.

anyway the sisters hat visit me have invited me again to their church so maybe this time i will go

Yes, there are several, including Yediyd, who was a baptist (her dad was a minister).

HiJolly

[selek]

Yes, there are several, including Yediyd, who was a baptist (her dad was a minister).

HiJolly

I'm a convert from the Baptist Church. The more I explored Mormon doctrine, the more questions I found answered. So long as you are not expecting to be taught all the world's wisdom in the next five minutes, while standing on one foot, you will do well. Don't expect an unreasonable perfection- you will be disappointed.

Be patienty, be humble, be teachable, and most important- be faithful, and the mysteries and order of the kingdom will be revealed to you.

Heavenly Father has left nothing to chance or to fate. He has crafted this universe to our needs, and our mortal probations are custom-made for our growth (however hard they are in the moment).

[mnn727]

I was raised Pentacostal, got married in the Catholic Church and went to many 'flavors' of Church in my adult life trying to find one. Finally in my mid 30's I was introduced to the LDS Church, suddenly I was "home". Its the only Church that the doctrines made sense to me and follows what I had read for myself in the Bible (as compared to what ministers and Priests tried telling me the Bible "really meant")

[Maya]

I have been a very good and active Lutheran for 30 years. But I had some questions I never could get an answer to. No one knew. MOre I studied the BM more I understood. Ofcourse there still are things I do nto understand and things that anties or such pinpoint to people all too early, before they get to the level whjere it is possible to understand wyh this or why that... If I get a problem I go back to the basics... Was JS a profet, do I believe it? Is the BM alike the bible the word of God?? And if I beløieve this I have to just admit... I do not know... so I have to study more if I want to understand a prinbciple that is a bit making me wonder. One small principle can not tear down a whole building if the basic is good.

Then I put this principle on a shelf to wait for an answere and understanding .... some people tend to go looking for these things they can put on the shelf and the shef gets too heavy and breaks. It is more improtant to study from that level one is up, than to find out what one dont understand and gather them and find no answers...

I think this is a big exciting trip the whole thing... think what exciting things there are waiting for us...

[Guest Iggy]

<<snip>>

Then I put this principle on a shelf to wait for an answere and understanding .... some people tend to go looking for these things they can put on the shelf and the Sheff gets too heavy and breaks. It is more important to study from that level one is up, than to find out what one don't understand and gather them and find no answers...

I think this is a big exciting trip the whole thing... think what exciting things there are waiting for us...

Maya, this is exactly what my husband and I do - only instead of putting it on a shelf -- a shelf is in a closet and more often than not that closet door gets shut and then the 'principle' gets forgotten -- so we now put it on the altar. Symbolically, the altar is in the middle of the room, not easy to forget or to ignore. Symbolically it is easy to see all the time.

This works great for us, as symbolically we pray at the altar twice a day in family prayer. Thus the principle gets prayed over and about twice a day.

[Dale]

The law and it's rule's have been abolished. Unless it's reaffimed in the New Testament I don't follow it's test of prophet's. Deut. 18:21,22 I am just not sure if a prophet still delivers one false prophecy they arn't a prophet anymore. I have read Evangelicals argue we don't have to keep a Saturday Sabbath. But they won't budge on OT tests of prophet's.

The common example's of Joseph Smith's false prophecies have been answered. Other than one on the list I don't consider them false prophecies.

[deblldo]

well after about 6 weeks today is the day i will visit my local church of jesus christ! not sure what to expect but i am looking forward to it

[Dale]

At one point somebody who has volunteered with FAIR was doing a book answering Joseph Smith's so-called false prophecies. I am not sure it's a project that will ever be in print though. If such a book ever get's published I will buy a copy. I keep an eye out for new LDS apologetic's book's. FAIR's bookstore has many good book's defending the LDS faith.

[Doctor Steuss]

A nifty resource showing some “false” prophecies in the Bible: The Nature of Prophets and Prophecy. From the article:

Important Points to Remember in Evaluating

So-Called "False Prophecies" of Joseph Smith

• Is the source authentic or is it hearsay?
• Is the statement accurately quoted?
• Does the statement claim to be a direct revelation from God?
• Does the quote claim to be a prophecy, or is it a statement of commandment, instruction, etc.?
• Is it clearly intended to be literal (not poetic, a figure of speech, etc.)?
• Is there a definite time limit set for its fulfillment, not simply "shortly," "nigh," "soon," etc.?
• Are there any stated conditions to the prophecy?
• Are there any possible unstated conditions to the prophecy?
• Is there only one possible interpretation?
• Can it be shown beyond dispute that the time of fulfillment is past?

[Dale]

One statement told David Patten to settle up his business, so he could go on a mission. (D.&C.114) But he died before going on the mission when he went into battle. I am not sure he settled up all his earthly business. I think him choosing to get involved in man's battles was attaching himself up to business he should have been done with. While critic's consider such a statement a false prophecy I do not.

[snipe123]

The law and it's rule's have been abolished. Unless it's reaffimed in the New Testament I don't follow it's test of prophet's. Deut. 18:21,22 I am just not sure if a prophet still delivers one false prophecy they arn't a prophet anymore. I have read Evangelicals argue we don't have to keep a Saturday Sabbath. But they won't budge on OT tests of prophet's.

The common example's of Joseph Smith's false prophecies have been answered. Other than one on the list I don't consider them false prophecies.

I love how Evangelicals leave out Deut 18:20

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

So according to anti-mormons we believe in a different Jesus and Brigham Young spoke in his name for decades and did not kick the bucket...hmmm, guess he wasn't a false prophet speaking in the name of some other false God then...

I am with you on this...there are a number of prophets in the Bible whose prophecies never came true and yet we do not call them false prophets...Jonah prophesied the destruction of Ninevah and when it did not happen he even got angry with God...yet we do not deride him as false, just human...

[Dale]

I am actually a Reorganized Latter Day Saint. But our Anti-Community of Christ literature we get contain's the same list of reputed false prophecies.