The Chosen - A Review

[Vort]

On 8/9/2023 at 9:28 AM, Vort said:

Matthew seems to be trying to prove through scripture that Jesus was the very Christ. Many times, it seems he tries too hard. Many of the verses he cites to show that Jesus fulfilled this or that prophecy are unconvincing, taken out of context, or just plain wrong.

A non-definitive list of Matthew's Messianic citations include:

• Matt. 1:23 (Isaiah 7:14)
• Matt. 2:6 (Misquote of Micah 5:2)
• Matt. 2:15 (Hosea 11:1)
• Matt. 2:18 (Jeremiah 31:15)
• Matt. 2:23 (No known source; lost scripture?)
• Matt. 3:3 (Isaiah 40:3)
• Matt. 4:15-16 (Isaiah 9:1-2)
• Matt. 8:17 (Appears to refer to Isaiah 53:4)
• Matt. 12:18-21 (Isaiah 42:1-3)
• Matt. 13:35 (Psalm 78:2, maybe?)
• Matt. 21:5 (Zechariah 9:9; maybe Isaiah 62:11?)
• Matt. 26:31 (Zechariah 13:7; this is presented as Jesus' words in the KJV and other translations, but I wonder if it isn't actually a parenthetical interjection where Matthew tries to cite another fulfillment of prophecy)
• Matt. 26:54, 56 (No idea what scriptures these might refer to; more lost scripture, perhaps?)
• Matt. 27:9 (No idea what verse in Jeremiah he might be talking about, but Zechariah 11:13 seems to fit)
• Matt. 27:35 (Psalm 22:18)

Interesting. I haven't read Matthew closely and looked for this particular phenomenon in some years. On review, it doesn't look like Matthew actually messes up as many times as I remembered him doing. He has a couple of misattributions or strange interpretations, but I remembered much worse. I wonder if it was more than just the prophecies he cited. Not sure. His genealogy is obviously suspect, not agreeing with the genealogies in the books of Chronicles, and he seemed to have tailored it to try to get a nice 14-14-14 split. Maybe some Biblical scholar knows what's going on there; I surely do not.

[zil2]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

On review, it doesn't look like Matthew actually messes up as many times as I remembered him doing.

Well, after 2000 years, your memory probably isn't what it was...

[Vort]

36 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Well, after 2000 years, your memory probably isn't what it was...

You disapprove of my usage of the present tense? Reading the NT must be excruciating for you.

[zil2]

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

You disapprove of my usage of the present tense? Reading the NT must be excruciating for you.

Stop ruining my fun with your verb tenses!

[JohnsonJones]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:54 PM, Vort said:

A non-definitive list of Matthew's Messianic citations include:

• Matt. 1:23 (Isaiah 7:14)
• Matt. 2:6 (Misquote of Micah 5:2)
• Matt. 2:15 (Hosea 11:1)
• Matt. 2:18 (Jeremiah 31:15)
• Matt. 2:23 (No known source; lost scripture?)
• Matt. 3:3 (Isaiah 40:3)
• Matt. 4:15-16 (Isaiah 9:1-2)
• Matt. 8:17 (Appears to refer to Isaiah 53:4)
• Matt. 12:18-21 (Isaiah 42:1-3)
• Matt. 13:35 (Psalm 78:2, maybe?)
• Matt. 21:5 (Zechariah 9:9; maybe Isaiah 62:11?)
• Matt. 26:31 (Zechariah 13:7; this is presented as Jesus' words in the KJV and other translations, but I wonder if it isn't actually a parenthetical interjection where Matthew tries to cite another fulfillment of prophecy)
• Matt. 26:54, 56 (No idea what scriptures these might refer to; more lost scripture, perhaps?)
• Matt. 27:9 (No idea what verse in Jeremiah he might be talking about, but Zechariah 11:13 seems to fit)
• Matt. 27:35 (Psalm 22:18)

Interesting. I haven't read Matthew closely and looked for this particular phenomenon in some years. On review, it doesn't look like Matthew actually messes up as many times as I remembered him doing. He has a couple of misattributions or strange interpretations, but I remembered much worse. I wonder if it was more than just the prophecies he cited. Not sure. His genealogy is obviously suspect, not agreeing with the genealogies in the books of Chronicles, and he seemed to have tailored it to try to get a nice 14-14-14 split. Maybe some Biblical scholar knows what's going on there; I surely do not.

It may also be that there were a few variations of the scripture and how it was translated between his time and ours...

We do believe that the Bible is word of God as long as it is translated correctly.  There are places where it probably has not been translated correctly, or this has been inferred and impressed upon me as long as I've been a member (starting with the Missionaries decades ago...which is why they brought up the Book of Mormon as being so important as it had not had the chance to be messed up with like the Bible had been).

[Carborendum]

On 2/4/2023 at 3:20 PM, Vort said:

There is a common idea, both inside and outside of Christianity, that Jesus was born in poverty to a single mother, reared in utter obscurity...

I noted recently that The Chosen had a scene where Joseph (Mary's husband) was speaking to Jesus (as a child) about being a carpenter.  He mentioned that "being a carpenter in a land with such little wood" was a stupid career choice.

I found this logic to be wrong on two counts:

• If wood is so scarce, that would make it a rare commodity.  Thus it would be more expensive, and one who was a craftsman of rare commodities would make a carpenter/craftsman even more valuable.
• The Savior was raised in Nazareth.  This is maybe a day or two from the Sea of Galilee (on foot or camel).  It's a fresh water lake.  Lands around there is abundant with wood.  Even today, just outside of the limits of urban sprawl, there are many areas around Nazareth that are full of trees. The cedars of Lebanon extended down to Northern Israel.  And if one were a skilled craftsman, he could do quite well by importing and working with such wood.  So, to be in Northern Israel (where there is much more wood) and have customers in Southern Israel (where there is little wood) means that he would have been perfectly placed to have chosen a fairly lucrative profession.

Of course, this is all speculative.  We have no idea if he was rich, middle class, or poor.  Just indications here and there.

[Carborendum]

For those who have not been keeping up on gossip...

The production of The Chosen has been interrupted because many fans didn't like the line:

Quote

I am the Law of Moses.

 -- Jesus, The Chosen

Apparently, the evangelicals decided that because it sounded so much like a verse in the BoM, this was clear evidence that those darn Mormons are running this operation.  And they ain't gonna ruin our Jesus.

Here's the verse they are referring to.

Quote

Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.

 -- 3 Ne 15:9

To me, this is clear evidence that most of our critics don't really read too well.  They just want that sound bite that can condemn.  Don't worry about the overall message.  Heck, here, they've even failed to understand the single phrase correctly.

Nowhere in the Book of Mormon does it say that "Jesus is the Law of Moses."  Instead, we read:

Quote

4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.

5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end.

 -- 3 Ne 15:4-5

It clearly states that He fulfilled the law.  He is here to replace the law with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  We no longer look to all the legalistic observances of the Law of Moses.  We look to Jesus Christ, our savior.

But somehow that has been overlooked.  They've decided that this was the influence for the statement in the show (which clearly is at odds with the BoM).

All because sectarians couldn't keep their Mormon Phobia (TM) sufficiently in check to allow us to facilitate the production of a story about Jesus, this may mean the end of the show.  They've even come so far as to "accuse" Dallas Jenkins of converting to Mormonism.

The offiicial story is that Angel Studios and The Chosen had a disagreement about the commercial end of things: how are we going to make enough money to keep producing the show and still turn a reasonable profit?  So, a breach of contract was cited as the reason to end things.

However, it seems awfully suspicious to many people that this comes at a time that coincides with this dust up over the single line.  The same practices have been happening for the past four seasons.  And no one brought it up before?

Unfortunately, that means that the series may not become completed.  The Chosen, LLC is parting ways with Angel Studios.  Without Angel, The Chosen will have trouble with production, promotion, and distribution.

I wish no ill will here.  I hope they can find a reasonable replacement for all that Angel Studios had to offer.  Maybe it will be better, who knows?  I'd hate to see this series die because of such a completely unfounded over-reaction.

Edited October 9, 2024 by Carborendum

[Carborendum]

On 8/13/2023 at 9:54 PM, Vort said:

...

I haven't read Matthew closely and looked for this particular phenomenon in some years. On review, it doesn't look like Matthew actually messes up as many times as I remembered him doing. He has a couple of misattributions or strange interpretations, but I remembered much worse. I wonder if it was more than just the prophecies he cited. Not sure. His genealogy is obviously suspect, not agreeing with the genealogies in the books of Chronicles, and he seemed to have tailored it to try to get a nice 14-14-14 split. Maybe some Biblical scholar knows what's going on there; I surely do not.

The gematria for "David" =14.  Matthew was trying to emphasize Jesus' Davidic lineage as a message that He qualified to be the Messiah.

Edited October 9, 2024 by Carborendum