1 Nephi 14

[CourtneyP]

After reading 1 Nephi 14 yesterday, I was trying to figure something out and I am hoping that someone can either confirm my thoughts or point me in the right direction if I am off. :)

1 Nephi 14 talks about there being two churches. One is the church of Jesus and the other is referred to as "the great and abominable church" in this chapter. After reading it, my brain is leading me to think they are referring to the Catholic church as that great and abominable church.

How did I reach this conclusion? Well, in verse 11 it mentions the church (compared to a whore) having "dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people." The Catholic church did work hard to spread their teaching far and wide, over all people they came across. Also in verse 13, I think there is a reference to the Crusades there. "And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God." The Catholic church did persecute many who opposed it.

Am I correct or way off base?

[jwhitlock]

It's not referring to the Catholic church.

The Catholic church has never had dominion over all the earth at any time, and as far as I understand it, verse 13 is not a specific reference to the Crusades. In addition, the church referred to in ch. 14 fights against the Church of the Lamb, which can be a specific organization or true believers in Christ. The specific organization has never been actively fought against by the Catholics (though they disagree with us), and there have been true believers who have been members of the Catholic church, as well as they were able, through the centuries when the Church of the Lamb did not exist.

Elder Bruce McConkie speculated that it might have been the Catholic church, but later retracted that by instruction of the First Presidency.

Nephi's reference is to the competing organization of Lucifer, which is not contained in a specific organization, but is rather made up of organizations and individuals influenced by him. This could include terrorist organizations, crime syndicates, certain churches (Westboro Baptist comes to mind), most American corporations , certain governments, and various other organizations that seek to enslave and control people, and fight against the spread of the restored gospel.

Hope this helps a little.

[ztodd]

Here's a real thorough article identifying the great and abominable church through scripture and historical study-

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoi..._&hideNav=1

Basically, it has 2 meanings: one is that there was an unidentified evil organization in the first and second centuries A.D. that was the great and abominanble church, which is not known to be the same as or the forerunner of any present day church, religion, or organization. The other meaning is along the lines of what jwhitlock said- it is anyone in any organization that fights against Zion.

[jwhitlock]

Here's a real thorough article identifying the great and abominable church through scripture and historical study-

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoi..._&hideNav=1

Basically, it has 2 meanings: one is that there was an unidentified evil organization in the first and second centuries A.D. that was the great and abominanble church, which is not known to be the same as or the forerunner of any present day church, religion, or organization. The other meaning is along the lines of what jwhitlock said- it is anyone in any organization that fights against Zion.

I remember reading that article when it came out. Good explanation.

[the_jason]

I don't believe either that the Catholic Church is the great and abominable church. Verse 10 says the two churches are The Church of the Lamb, or Jesus Christ, and the church of the devil. I don't think the church of the devil is any one church in particular, but rather any church that teaches contrary to the Church of the Lamb.

During the Apostasy, The Church of the Lamb was not present on the earth, leaving the church of the devil to have "dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people."

[NeuroTypical]

You will occasionally encounter Mormons who believe the verse is referring to the Catholic church. Although, as others have already mentioned, this is not an official teaching by any means.

The nicest little old lady I've ever met anywhere on the entire face of planet earth, just happens to be Catholic. One would think that the devil would have kicked this sweet lady out of his church years ago.

LM

[MorningStar]

I also don't believe the Catholic Church is the great and abominable.

[Daniel]

I also agree that the Catholic Church is not the great and abominable church. Although the first version of Mormon Doctrine did hint of it, if I remember correctly. However it was corrected in the 2nd version. It is possible that is where some members could have gotten the idea about the Catholic Church being it.

[Moksha]

Elder Bruce McConkie speculated that it might have been the Catholic church, but later retracted that by instruction of the First Presidency.

Good thing too. Catholics are our allies in Christ.

[DrewM]

I'm finishing "A New Witness for the Articles of Faith" (1984) and Bruce R. McConkie hints in it that the Catholic Church is the great and abominable. I guess his views didn't change much even until he died. However, I don't think the scripture has reference to any specific sect.

[Abraham]

I'm finishing "A New Witness for the Articles of Faith" (1984) and Bruce R. McConkie hints in it that the Catholic Church is the great and abominable. I guess his views didn't change much even until he died. However, I don't think the scripture has reference to any specific sect.

It is well documented that the specific verse specifically refers to any systems religious, political, econominc, social, etc that detracts men and women from Christ, in this sense they all are anti-christ (not necessarily THE anti-Christ). Be careful not to put too much private intepretation on which church Nephi is referring to. There are too many worth-while pursuits that will promote light, truth, and the kingdom. Remember, it is not our mission to destroy but to build. Also, BRM had to print a retraction when he published his opinion on which church Nephi was referring to. it is not that simple.

Abraham of the Chaldeas on my way to Canaan

[bert10]

After reading 1 Nephi 14 yesterday, I was trying to figure something out and I am hoping that someone can either confirm my thoughts or point me in the right direction if I am off. :)

1 Nephi 14 talks about there being two churches. One is the church of Jesus and the other is referred to as "the great and abominable church" in this chapter. After reading it, my brain is leading me to think they are referring to the Catholic church as that great and abominable church.

How did I reach this conclusion? Well, in verse 11 it mentions the church (compared to a whore) having "dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people." The Catholic church did work hard to spread their teaching far and wide, over all people they came across. Also in verse 13, I think there is a reference to the Crusades there. "And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God." The Catholic church did persecute many who opposed it.

Am I correct or way off base?

Both the Catholics and the protestants have killed the Saints persecuted each other and started wars in the name of their God. A Church is more than just an organization it is the people.

It can also be a political organization whom the people believe in. Already the present financial system of Babylon rules the world. In the Early 1900...Europe and America ruled and controlled over 93% of the world resources and controlled every gate of every nation. A lot has changed since. England who could boast that the Sun never set on its Empire is a shadow of its former self and the USA Economic and military powers are waning. At this time Russia or China cannot fill the void.

The greatest enemies of the people of light is the darkness which now expresses itself in the political and financial systems around the world.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[CourtneyP]

I had asked the missionaries about this when they came to visit last Friday. They told me that "the great and abominable church" refers to anyone who is not of Jesus's church.

[ztodd]

Not exactly. It's anyone who fights against Jesus' church. There's a difference. There are good people not in the church yet who should not be categorized as being in the great and abominable church.

[HiJolly]

Not exactly. It's anyone who fights against Jesus' church. There's a difference. There are good people not in the church yet who should not be categorized as being in the great and abominable church.

I agree. We should not think so ill of so many good people.

HiJolly

[palabras_ardientes]

Check out this scripture right under our noses.

2 Nephi 10:16

• The great and abominable church, the whore of all the earth are all churches, all people’s institutions, organizations etc. that fight against Zion. This is the church of the devil.