D&C 138:59

[laronius]

23 hours ago, romans8 said:

Does "a lesser degree of exaltation" = "without exaltation"?

Exaltation is defined as a fullness of salvation. So "without exaltation" would be "a lesser degree of salvation".

[laronius]

23 hours ago, romans8 said:

What about those who reject the gospel like the Plan of Salvation says of the terrestrial inhabitants?

Everyone inherits a degree of glory contingent on the law they are willing to live. The covenants made in the temple make up the Celestial law a person must obey to inherit that kingdom. Those unwilling/unable to live that higher law will simply not "accept" those ordinances performed on their behalf.

Though, I'm not sure if there are covenants designated for the lesser kingdoms, perhaps in the next life. I guess you could argue that baptism is the covenant of the Terrestrial Kingdom. That might make for an interesting discussion.

[romans8]

On 4/23/2023 at 9:49 AM, laronius said:

I guess you could argue that baptism is the covenant of the Terrestrial Kingdom. That might make for an interesting discussion.

How can baptism be a covenant for them when they rejected the gospel?

[laronius]

30 minutes ago, romans8 said:

How can baptism be a covenant for them when they rejected the gospel?

When it comes to the degrees of glory it isn't an all or nothing, heaven or hell situation. As the word degrees implies there are levels of faithfulness. While not as faithful as those in the Celestial Kingdom, people in the Terrestrial Kingdom do live parts of the gospel, they are in fact described as honorable. Whether that degree of faithfulness is representative of the covenant of baptism was just a thought starter I was throwing out there. The main point was that the covenant of baptism, while essential, is not sufficient for exaltation.

[Jersey Boy]

On 4/29/2023 at 9:23 AM, romans8 said:

How can baptism be a covenant for them when they rejected the gospel?

Why don’t you spend some quality time in a sincere attempt to learn what the Latter-Day Saints actually believe instead of asking silly, ill informed questions that make it obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about? Rather than spoon feed you the correct information, I suggest you read, study and deeply ponder Doctrine and Covenants 138 and you’ll get the information you need to be set straight as to whether or not the inheritors of the lower kingdoms of heavenly glory will have a covenantal relationship with Christ. But I’ll cut you some slack because, in all honesty, most Latter-Day Saints are clueless when it comes to what Doctrine and Covenants 76 and 138 actually teach.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Jersey Boy

[romans8]

On 5/3/2023 at 3:30 PM, Jersey Boy said:

Doctrine and Covenants 138 and you’ll get the information you need to be set straight as to whether or not the inheritors of the lower kingdoms of heavenly glory will have a covenantal relationship with Christ.

D&C 138:20-21 mentions this.

"But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled
themselves while in the flesh, his voice was not raised; Neither did the rebellious who rejected the
testimonies and the warnings of the ancient prophets behold his presence, nor look upon his face".

After reading Mosiah 2:38-39, Alma 40:11-14,26, and Alma 41:2-4,10, it is hard to see those in
darkness (from D&C 138) coming forth to inherit happiness instead of misery.

Edited May 6, 2023 by romans8

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, romans8 said:

D&C 138:20-21 mentions this.

"But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled
themselves while in the flesh, his voice was not raised; Neither did the rebellious who rejected the
testimonies and the warnings of the ancient prophets behold his presence, nor look upon his face".

After reading Mosiah 2:38-39, Alma 40:11-14,26, and Alma 41:2-4,10, it is hard to see those in
darkness (from D&C 138) coming forth to inherit happiness instead of misery.

Dude I am so lost with your posts. What are you trying to say here? Explain it nice and easy so I can understand it. 

[laronius]

23 hours ago, romans8 said:

D&C 138:20-21 mentions this.

"But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled
themselves while in the flesh, his voice was not raised; Neither did the rebellious who rejected the
testimonies and the warnings of the ancient prophets behold his presence, nor look upon his face".

After reading Mosiah 2:38-39, Alma 40:11-14,26, and Alma 41:2-4,10, it is hard to see those in
darkness (from D&C 138) coming forth to inherit happiness instead of misery.

These individuals are going to experience a complicated mix of misery and a degree of happiness. The happiness will come as a result of being released from hell and receiving a degree of glory. But it will still pale in comparison to what they might have had and that knowledge also brings misery.

It is helpful to remember that even those who are nasty, evil people in this life had chosen the right side in the war in heaven. That's not to say they super valiant in that cause but they at least made the right decision then and God will reward them for that.

[romans8]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:13 AM, laronius said:

These individuals are going to experience a complicated mix of misery and a degree of happiness. The happiness will come as a result of being released from hell and receiving a degree of glory.

How do you understand these teachings from Joseph Smith?  Maybe the misery will overpower
the happiness.

“God has decreed that all who will not obey His voice shall not escape the damnation of hell.
What is the damnation of hell? To go with that society who have not obeyed His commands. . . .
I know that all men will be damned if they do not come in the way which He hath opened, and
this is the way marked out by the word of the Lord.”

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to
know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed
themselves, and they are their own accusers.”

“There is no pain so awful as that of suspense. This is the punishment of the wicked; their
doubt, anxiety and suspense cause weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.”  

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into
the lake that burns with fire and brimstone [see Revelation 21:8]. The torment of disappointment
in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the
torment of man. . . .

“. . . Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings,
and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as
the lake of fire and brimstone.”

[laronius]

36 minutes ago, romans8 said:

How do you understand these teachings from Joseph Smith?  Maybe the misery will overpower
the happiness.

“God has decreed that all who will not obey His voice shall not escape the damnation of hell.
What is the damnation of hell? To go with that society who have not obeyed His commands. . . .
I know that all men will be damned if they do not come in the way which He hath opened, and
this is the way marked out by the word of the Lord.”

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to
know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed
themselves, and they are their own accusers.”

“There is no pain so awful as that of suspense. This is the punishment of the wicked; their
doubt, anxiety and suspense cause weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.”  

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into
the lake that burns with fire and brimstone [see Revelation 21:8]. The torment of disappointment
in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the
torment of man. . . .

“. . . Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings,
and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as
the lake of fire and brimstone.”

What Joseph Smith is mostly referring to here is what we refer to as spirit prison or hell. This is the state of the wicked prior to judgement. Here they suffer for their sins in order to humble them and prepare them to receive a degree of glory. At some point when they are willing to acknowledge Christ as their Savior they will be released, judged, and receive a lesser degree of glory. The misery of knowing what they missed out on will still exist but they will also be happy to be released from hell. Hell therefore is a preparatory state for these individuals, to learn those lessons they refused to learn in mortality. God does not delight in punishing His children but if they are to receive a kingdom of glory they must be willing to abide the laws of that kingdom and hell prepares them to do that. Even in hell we see God's mercy at work.