Which Callings Do You Fear?

[NateHowe]

If you believe that "God's will has already been revealed," you must account for the cessation of such revelation. It did not end at the Crucifixion or the Resurrection, as the Revelation of St. John stands an example, so what was the cutting-off point when God stopped speaking to man? Why did revelation stop?

Secondly, if you believe that revelation ever did occur, in what way did it happen? Moses talked to God face to face. Can God not so talk with Joseph Smith? With Gordon B. Hinckley?

One does not have to be a bigwig of some sort to speak with and be spoken to by God. Such a stance would be elitist and unjust - not in the nature of God. So why can God not communicate with the common man? There is no evidence, Biblical or otherwise, that shuts the mouth of God. Historically, He has only failed to speak when we cease listening.

[kona0197]

I was going to ask why he hangs out here if he does not believe in modern day prophets...

[USNationalist]

If you believe that "God's will has already been revealed," you must account for the cessation of such revelation. It did not end at the Crucifixion or the Resurrection, as the Revelation of St. John stands an example, so what was the cutting-off point when God stopped speaking to man? Why did revelation stop?

Secondly, if you believe that revelation ever did occur, in what way did it happen? Moses talked to God face to face. Can God not so talk with Joseph Smith? With Gordon B. Hinckley?

One does not have to be a bigwig of some sort to speak with and be spoken to by God. Such a stance would be elitist and unjust - not in the nature of God. So why can God not communicate with the common man? There is no evidence, Biblical or otherwise, that shuts the mouth of God. Historically, He has only failed to speak when we cease listening.

First of all, in my first posts on the issue I did not exclusively deny that Gods may speak to people- I just said that I would have nothing to do with any of it because there was no accountability for any claim.

As for evidence that Gods mouth is shut- what do we need the holy spirit for if the Father is still talking to us? The only reason we have the spirit is to maintain some form of connection to him where otherwise there would be none.

I guess there could be the "Tounges" issue. But I am not familiar with any Holy "Babblings" that have included any special or significant revelation. Or any that I view as legitimate for that matter.

Lets say God does talk to people. How do you know he is talking to you, and not the Tounge speaking pentacostals? Or the Pope. Maybe God can speak to Hinckley, but how do you know Hinckley is making it up? The Catholic church went through a lot of Scandal with the Popes useing the notion that they could speak to God to their own ends.

Obviously I can not definitively prove that God does not speak, reveal, or further instruct our lives. Neither could anyone prove the opposite. And because of the complete lack of accountability for the claims people make- how can you so freely except them?

[USNationalist]

I was going to ask why he hangs out here if he does not believe in modern day prophets...

I don't hang out here. I used to, now I stop by once a year or so for maybe a week. Say hello, jump into a conversation or two, and then disappear for a bit.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Is there a way to quote portions of a text, and not the whole post? heh.

Yes. You just click 'quote' to pick up the whole post and then go into the quotation, highlight and cut the bits you don't want to quote.

On the subject of callings - you could rename them 'allocated positions within the structure of the church' if it makes you feel any better about them. Before I joined the LDS church I attended the Baptist church where I was a Sunday School teacher. I was asked to be a Sunday School teacher by the Baptist Minister because he said he had prayed about who might make a good teacher for the 3-5 year olds and he was impressed to think of me. I see callings from our Bishop in much the same way - except we have far more of them because we have a far more active church with classes for adults as well as children.

There's only one calling I dread and that's Sunday School teacher to the teenagers. Every time I have had that calling it has driven me to distraction. I just know I'll end up doing it again one day.

When I was first baptised back in 'nineteen hundred and frozen to death' as Uncle Jack says I was called to Young Women as 2nd Counselor. I had no idea what the calling involved as I hadn't been brought up in the church. The First Counselor went inactive the same week and took the manuals with her and the president was ill and bedridden for months. Talk about being thrown in at the deep end! The Bishop said, "There's a room. There are some Young Women. Teach them something!" So I did. Little did I know that he was in the next room and heard everything that went on. If I'd known that in advance I'd have been really nervous but he came in at the end of the lesson to say he needn't have worried because there were obviously two people teaching there - me and the Holy Ghost.

[kona0197]

" Yes. You just click 'quote' to pick up the whole post and then go into the quotation, highlight and cut the bits you don't want to quote."

That is a total waste of time. I am a member of other sites where you highlight the text you want to quote and push quote and it only quotes what you highlight.

[Canuck Mormon]

That is a total waste of time. I am a member of other sites where you highlight the text you want to quote and push quote and it only quotes what you highlight.

Sorry, it might take a couple of extra seconds.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I find it quite quick and painless. In fact I doubt it takes any more time than doing it the other way. Both involve highlighting text and clicking on buttons. Most forums I'm familiar with operate as this one.

[pushka]

The only problem here is that it only quotes what the other poster has said, it doesn't quote whatever that person had quoted and is replying to.

[Iggy]

The only problem here is that it only quotes what the other poster has said, it doesn't quote whatever that person had quoted and is replying to.

I do like it this way though Pushka- especially the other way, when all the other quotes of quotes of quotes, ad nausem, etc. were done it made for such a long and difficult to read post. Especially when all of the answers were less than three words and or just smilies or exclamation marks.

[WANDERER]

How do you put in the originally quoted by tag?

[WillowTheWhisp]

Do you mean how do you embed one quote within another quote?

[WANDERER]

Yes, but I think I should have posted that on a separate thread. Oops. Just found user CP, working it out...slowly.

[WillowTheWhisp]

It can be done if you play around a bit with the html. It's a bit messy but if you feel you really need to do it for the sake of clarity then the easiest way I have found to do it is to click the quote button in the second post which will bring that up surrounded by the quote tags.

Highlight and copy all of that. Then go back into the thread and go to the original post which that poster quoted and click on 'quote' in that, which will then bring that up in your reply box.

Now paste the quoted thing which you've copied after this first quote. At this stage you will have one quote followed by another.

Now highlight and cut the opening tag of the second quote and paste it before the opening tag of the first post.

This will then give you the quote within the quote. It sounds a lot more complicated than it actually is.

[NateHowe]

First of all, in my first posts on the issue I did not exclusively deny that Gods may speak to people- I just said that I would have nothing to do with any of it because there was no accountability for any claim.

The beauty of the entire arrangement is that we don't have to take anybody's word for it, because when we are taught ANYTHING that claims to be from God, we must pray and receive confirmation through the Holy Spirit that it is true. If it is not true, the Spirit will not confirm it.

As for evidence that Gods mouth is shut- what do we need the holy spirit for if the Father is still talking to us? The only reason we have the spirit is to maintain some form of connection to him where otherwise there would be none.

Does not Christ say that the Spirit will teach us all things and bring all things to our remembrance? The role of the Spirit is to REVEAL. The Holy Ghost is the Lord's most common method of revelation.

Lets say God does talk to people. How do you know he is talking to you, and not the Tounge speaking pentacostals? Or the Pope. Maybe God can speak to Hinckley, but how do you know Hinckley is making it up? The Catholic church went through a lot of Scandal with the Popes useing the notion that they could speak to God to their own ends.

I believe that many people of many religions receive knowledge from God. The Church does not have a monopoly on Godly ideas or good people. We simply have a fullness.

And because of the complete lack of accountability for the claims people make- how can you so freely except them?

I am accepting revelation - you are excepting it.

Again, any claim that God has spoken is subject to the litmus test of individual confirmation through the Holy Ghost. It is available to all people, but not all are willing to accept or recognize it.

Again, the basis of religion is faith, so nothing can be empirically proven. That is the plan - we must search, study, obey, pray, listen, receive, believe, and act. Often in that order. There is no other way to know certainly.

[WANDERER]

fullness

n

Definition: abundance, breadth

Antonyms: emptiness, incompleteness, need, void, want

Fair enough.

[USNationalist]

Nate- What about lying spirits? Or the fact that people confuse their own spirit for Gods. How do you explain the lack of the burning in the bosom some people experience when first looking into the Mormon church?

Seriously, there has to be a way to discern the validity of "religious experiences". Praying for guidance in practice is a joke. People want something, they pray about it, their spirit moves them, they think it is God- they do what they want and slap his name on it. The human heart is as great a deceiver as the devil himself.

How does the Mormon church protect itself from the chances of the president committing the same sort of actions that have riddled the history of the Popes and Catholic Church?

I get what you are saying- you believe in new revelation, therefor God has to use his magic to send it to us. But you are ignoring some huge holes that the devil hides in. Why aren't Christians of all flavors more worried about that, and interested in seeking some kind of answer? Especially since God does not have a good record of having mercy on people who are tricked.

[kona0197]

I see someone has no faith...

[MorningStar]

I do not believe in callings. I believe each individual is called to do as much as they will in what ever fashion they choose. And it is up to each of us to take that as far as we desire.

So then you would fear any calling because you don't believe in them?

[USNationalist]

So then you would fear any calling because you don't believe in them?

I admit it would be awkward to receive something I do not believe in. Kind of like if something fell up... would make me scratch my head a bit at the least.

Kona- Thats a stupid statement. Faith in What? The Devils ability to deceive people (earning him the title "The Great Deceiver")? Or Faith in the weakness of man?

[kona0197]

Having faith means believing that God speaks to modern day prophets. If you question LDS teachings that means you have little or no faith.

[WANDERER]

If you question LDS teachings that means you have little or no faith.

Why does this bother me?

[kona0197]

I was told that as a Mormon your not supposed to question your leaderts nor the Mormon teachings or Doctrine.

If someone can't accept the Mormon teachings then they lack faith. It's simple really. You must have faith to believe God talks to modern day prophets.

[USNationalist]

Kona- So then you are instructed to do absolutely nothing to protect yourself from the deception of the devil? And you are instructed that the prophets are perfect in that none of them will ever let their humanity get the best of them and use their position for personal gain by tricking people? Do you simply take some white-out to the scripture when it talks about lying spirits so that they are easier to ignore? You may as well throw out a welcome mat.

That is ridiculous.

The question is no longer does god still reveal things- I have changed it to what protections do you take not to be deceived. So far your answer so far is none- which does very little to help the credibility of any divine revelation.

[john doe]

I was told that as a Mormon your not supposed to question your leaderts nor the Mormon teachings or Doctrine.

If someone can't accept the Mormon teachings then they lack faith. It's simple really. You must have faith to believe God talks to modern day prophets.

You were told wrong. There is no 'don't ask questions, just do it' doctrine in the LDS church. LDS are encouraged to search the scriptures, pray often, ponder situations, educate ourselves about things. That way if a leader says something that doesn't sound quite right, you will know it.