Book of Mormon Reading Group: 18 Sep - 24 Sep 2023 (1 Nephi 19 - 2 Nephi 9)

[zil2]

Please see the Book of Mormon Reading Group thread for details (and discussion of 1 Nephi 1 - 5).  Our goal is to read the Book of Mormon by the end of the year.  I'll make a new post before each Monday so that it's ready to go - weeks go from Monday to Sunday for our purposes.

This week's schedule:

X	Date	Read Through	Day of Week
	Sep 18	1 Nephi 20	Monday
	Sep 19	1 Nephi 22	Tuesday
	Sep 20	2 Nephi 2	Wednesday
	Sep 21	2 Nephi 3	Thursday
	Sep 22	2 Nephi 5	Friday
	Sep 23	2 Nephi 8	Saturday
	Sep 24	2 Nephi 9	Sunday

 

Last week:  Book of Mormon Reading Group: 11 Sep - 17 Sep 2023 (1 Nephi 6 - 1 Nephi 18)

Thread Index

Edited September 30, 2023 by zil2

[zil2]

1 Nephi 19

v1-2: More hints at the lost 116 pages, also, an explanation of why the story has fewer details than we might want.

v7: If a prophet of God thinks that something is of great worth and I can't see it, I should probably figure out how to see it rather than ignoring it or throwing it out.

v10: @Jamie123, Zenock, Neum, and Zenos are not Book of Mormon prophets but were prophets to Israel (or perhaps the Jews).  Presumably their prophecies were on the brass plates.  We don't know when they prophesied.  Zenos's prophecy indicates that the Lord had revealed the signs of Christ's death that would be experienced on "the isles of the sea" long enough before Lehi's time that the info was on the brass plates.  It seems sort of obvious to me why some in the old world wouldn't want to recover Zenos' prophecies.

v20: This and similar verses both about family and nation, and the depth of love and concern Nephi had for them make me think that the following scripture really is long fulfilled - modern man generally, myself included, doesn't seem to experience the depth of feeling being described:

Quote

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

v23: Reading Isaiah should convince you to believe in Christ. Finding similarities between scripture and your own life is to your benefit and (v24) should bring you hope.

Chapter 20 (Isaiah 48)

v1-2: It's not enough to claim belief, you must obey God in truth.

v3+, esp v5: God gives us good reason to believe in him.

v10 (and answering @askandanswer's comment): It's not necessarily that God chose to afflict them - see the footnotes - rather, they were in affliction (enslaved by the Egyptians) and God chose them and led them out of captivity rather than leave them there.  If you wish to remain unchosen, you will remain in captivity.  Also:

 "How Firm a Foundation"

Quote

4.When through the deep waters I call thee to go,

The rivers of sorrow shall not thee o’erflow,

For I will be with thee, thy troubles to bless,

And sanctify to thee, and sanctify to thee,

And sanctify to thee thy deepest distress.

 

5. When through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie,

My grace, all sufficient, shall be thy supply.

The flame shall not hurt thee; I only design

Thy dross to consume, thy dross to consume,

Thy dross to consume and thy gold to refine.

v11: Clear reference to Satan who wanted God's glory all to himself.

v18+: The Lord keeps his covenants and blesses his people.  But the wicked will find no peace.  (So don't be wicked. )

[zil2]

1 Nephi 21

Chapter 22 explains this one. (Though I had no trouble understanding it. If you do, Jamie, don't hesitate to ask.)

Chapter 22

I think the main take-away from this on a personal level is simply to remain faithful (which includes doing our part to spread Christ's gospel and to lift others) and trust in the Lord's power and promises.  This chapter covers an awful lot of time - essentially from before Christ's mortal ministry to the Millennium.

[Jamie123]

Thanks zil for all your work on this. I have been a bit busy but I caught up today and am at the end of 1 Nephi. I did wonder about Zenock and Zenos, but a bit of Googling told me they are OT-age prophets only ever mentioned in the BoM. 

[Carborendum]

17 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

Thanks zil for all your work on this. I have been a bit busy but I caught up today and am at the end of 1 Nephi. I did wonder about Zenock and Zenos, but a bit of Googling told me they are OT-age prophets only ever mentioned in the BoM. 

Yup.  Some sample of those lost books that the Jews never recovered when they returned from their captivity.

[zil2]

2 Nephi 1

v1+: Sometimes, the Lord's blessings may look to us like hardship.  And sometimes, it's up to us whether those blessings are all they could be, or whether they remain a hardship. Perception is a powerful thing.

v7: "...for if iniquity shall abound cursed shall be the land for their sakes..." Even curses from the Lord are for our benefit - to help us turn to him.

v11: reminds me of the parable of the talent - the one who hid his talent rather than making good use of it had the talent taken away and given to another. Seems this is how the Lord works and it scales from individual or nation - do the will of God or someone else will be brought in and receive what you have been wasting.

v20: The Nephite Promise (but the promise made continually to Israel in the Old Testament).  Some seem to think this is what some these days call "the prosperity gospel", and certainly we can see that when the people were righteous they prospered in material things (as a society), but look at the wording: obey and prosper or disobey and be cut off from God's presence.  Being cut off from God's presence is the opposite of "prosper", which suggests that "prosper" really means "to enjoy God's presence".  I think any societal material prosperity is just a natural consequence of being honest, generous, compassionate, and hard working.  That is not, per se, what God is promising.  God is promising his presence, so that you can become honest, generous, compassionate, hard working, etc.

Lehi uses some good symbolism throughout this chapter.

v30: Zoram's character as described here makes it easier to understand how and why he could just leave with Nephi and the others (without going back for anything - if he had anything).  Such a person probably disliked working for a man of Laban's character, but he probably had little choice in the matter.

2 Nephi 2

v3: Jacob is redeemed not through his own righteousness (which must have been significant given what we learn later), but through the righteousness of Christ.  (As is true for all of us.)

v7: Have a broken heart and a contrite spirit!

v8: We have an obligation to share the gospel!

v11: I wonder if despite this being addressed to Jacob, it's really a secret lesson intended for Laman, et al.   (Ah, yes, v14: "And now, my sons...")

Repent!

v25: Do Adam a favor and choose joy.

v26: We are free because of Christ's Atonement - without it, we would not be free.

I think this chapter speaks of both free will (the ability to act) and agency (responsibility for our choices, choosing whether to represent our Savior or our selfish self: "29 ...the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell..." (Interesting wording here - Satan's power over us comes from our own selfishness.))

[askandanswer]

1st Nephi 22

The Gentiles will nurse and nourish Israel with the gospel in the last days

This nursing of the Gentiles only started towards the end of the 19th century after more than a thousand years of hostility and oppression. The Jews who were still in Palestine were not well nursed by the Gentiles during the Crusades.

 

 

 the wicked will burn as stubble— About 588–570 B.C.

Thu, Sep 21, 2023

Millions of Jews were burnt as stubble in the Nazi gas chambers.

 

The kingdom of the devil will be destroyed, 

Thu, Sep 21, 2023

I can't see Satan's kingdom ever coming to a complete or permanent end. I think that Satan will always have power over those who have chosen to serve him. 

 

 

I wander how common it was to be literate in those times.

1 Nephi 22:1

1  after I, Nephi, had read these things 

 

The last time Nephi's brothers asked him for an interpretation of the scriptures he replied have ye inquired of the Lord. This time he doesn't ask them that, he just gives them an answer.

1 Nephi 22:2

2  And I, Nephi, said unto them: 

 

 

If this were true - that all things are made known unto the prophets - then it must also be true that there is a lot that the prophets don't tell us. Not telling us all things would be consistent with the recorded actions of John, Nephi and Lehi who saw things but did not make them known. Additionally, Peter, James and John saw things on the Mount of Transfiguration that have not been made known. And there are many references to Joseph Smith having been taught/shown a lot that we have no record of. We have only a very vague, one or two sentence description of what Moroni showed him each year while Joseph was waiting to obtain the plates. So there seems to be some reason to conclude that the prophets, possibly because of divine injunction, do not tell us all that they know and have been shown. However, I think its still possible for non-prophets to know more than is generally known, but if that is the case, I suspect that they would also be told not to reveal what they have been shown/taught.

1 Nephi 22:2

2 And I, Nephi, said unto them: Behold they were manifest unto the prophet by the voice of the Spirit; for by the Spirit are all things made known unto the prophets, which shall come upon the children of men according to the flesh.

 

After having been led away and scattered, I wonder at what point they were no longer Jewish, or of the house of Israel, and they became Gentiles.

1 Nephi 22:4

4 And behold, there are many who are already lost from the knowledge of those who are at Jerusalem. Yea, the more part of all the tribes have been led away; and they are scattered to and fro upon the isles of the sea; 

 

 

I wonder if this is a deliberate choice of words. There is a big difference between having been led away and driven out. But maybe not. The saints were driven out of Nauvoo but they were led by the Lord to the Great Salt Lake.

1 Nephi 22:4

4  save that we know that they have been led away.

 

Perhaps it was a deliberate choice of words. If they were led away it might be that they were led by prophets in the same way as the Lehites were. And possibly they kept records. Second Nephi 29 talks of this.

1 Nephi 22:5

5 And since they have been led away, 

 

 

I can understand the scattering as a punishment/consequence of disobedience to God's laws. It was made clear to Moses and Joshua and their followers that occupation of the promised land was conditional upon obedience and that disobedience would lead to a loss of the land. I don't understand why they should also be hated of all men. This seems like a double punishment. I've never understood anti-semitism.

1 Nephi 22:5

Book of Mormon

 wherefore, they shall be scattered among all nations and shall be hated of all men.

 

 

[zil2]

16 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I've never understood anti-semitism.

At first, I believe, it was because "the Jews" crucified Christ.  Whether any given person still uses that as a reason I couldn't begin to guess.

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

This seems like a double punishment. I've never understood anti-semitism.

There were some generations where it was all the fault of the other parties.  Other generations where the Jews were doing the persecuting (usually in very subtle ways).  Then there were other generations where there was some rivalry between nations & societies that went both directions.

But the common narrative has been that whenever there's something negative with Jews, it must always be anti-semitism.  Well, by the strict definition of the term, yes. 

Consider this:

When the Saints finally settled in Missouri, it was a common attitude that we were going to take over.  Yeah, other people may have the governmental power now.  But it's all going to be ours.  I guess we'll let you stay here for a while until that happens.

Couple that with an attitude of exclusion that the early settlers had (strange for a missionary minded faith).  Couple that with how their industry and unity ended up creating wealth for them, while a lot of Missouri... well, let's just say that they had a lot to be jealous about.

Just something to consider.

[zil2]

2 Nephi 3

@Jamie123, we believe that the writings mentioned in v12 and the "sticks" mentioned in the linked Ezekiel 37:15-20, represent the Bible (stick of Judah) and Book of Mormon (stick of Joseph).  (And yes, also, the gathering of Israel back into one as mentioned in subsequent verses in Ezekiel 37.)  When I was a teenager, it was common for some, especially missionaries, to refer to their scriptures as "sticks".

Thoughts... Learning your family history can bring greater meaning into your life. v23: we are blessed through covenants others made. v25: learn from those with more experience.

v20 and 21 "...the simpleness of their words." and "...and the weakness of their words will I make strong in their faith..."  remind me of this exchange in Ether 12:

Quote

23 And I said unto him: Lord, the Gentiles will mock at these things, because of our weakness in writing; for Lord thou hast made us mighty in word by faith, but thou hast not made us mighty in writing; ...

26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: ... my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;

The meek won't go looking for things to mock (take advantage of another's weakness) in the Book of Mormon, especially in the way the authors worded things.  We generally interpret this portion of Ether 12 as saying that the Lord can take my weakness and make it my strength, but I think this exchange and Moroni's concern show that it also means that the Lord can take something one person did in their weakness and make it a strength for another person who is acting with faith in Christ.

Edited September 21, 2023 by zil2

[Jamie123]

17 hours ago, zil2 said:

At first, I believe, it was because "the Jews" crucified Christ.  Whether any given person still uses that as a reason I couldn't begin to guess.

I think it was always an excuse rather than a reason. The Jews have always had a tenacious spirit, and a habit of using thir resources wisely - leading of course to the stereotype of them being mean. (Even when I was a kid you'd likely be called "you ******* Jew" if you showed any reluctance to spend your cash.) They therefore tend to be successful, and hence the envy of the less successful. "They killed Jesus" was a God sent excuse for anyone who wanted to steal their property and drive them off their land. The English were as bad as any: Edward I expelled all Jews from England (mostly because he'd borrowed a whole bunch of money from them and didn't want to pay any of it back). They were not allowed back until the time of Oliver Cromwell.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jamie123

[Jamie123]

I get most of 2 Nephi 3 (I think). I was aware that the JST adds (or maybe I should say "restores") an extra bit to the end of Genesis in which Joseph prophesies the coming of Joseph Smith ("a choice seer"), and Lehi is presumably quoting this. Thus the chapter is a wee bit confusing: you have three different Josephs: Joseph of Egypt, Joseph Lehi's son, and Joseph Smith.

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Jamie123 said:

I was aware that the JST adds (or maybe I should say "restores") 

A couple of interesting notes on that sentiment:

• Nephi says that the Lord told him that the information on the Brass Plates would "no more be dimmed with time."  This means that even the writings on the Brass Plates had already been subject to "dimming with time."  So, not all of that was accurate either.
• When Joseph Smith went through the Bible to add his commentary, most saints will believe that those were all "corrections."  Not so.  A lot of it was commentary and clarification.  Much of what we had in the KJV was translated perfectly accurately.  But Joseph still changed some words to mean what our current understanding would bring us to believe.  And he also didn't change some words that were actually translated poorly because it didn't seem to change anything doctrinally. 
• NOTE:  Yes there were also corrections and "restorations" in the JST.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Carborendum

[zil2]

4 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Thus the chapter is a wee bit confusing: you have three different Josephs: Joseph of Egypt, Joseph Lehi's son, and Joseph Smith.

Sort of like Who's on first?

ETA: And there are four Josephs - it said Joseph Smith would be named after his father.

Edited September 21, 2023 by zil2

[askandanswer]

I wonder if he knew who or what he was seeing.

2 Nephi 3

Joseph in Egypt saw the Nephites in vision

 

 It seems as though Lehi did not enjoy his time in the wilderness. I wonder if the reasons for his delays in the wilderness were similar to the reasons for the delays in the wilderness of the Israelites after leaving Egypt.

2 Nephi 3:1

1 And now I speak unto you, Joseph, my last-born. Thou wast born in the wilderness of mine afflictions; yea, in the days of my greatest sorrow did thy mother bear thee.

The north and south American continents are not small. How far did that consecration extend and did Joseph and his brothers and their descentants stay within that part of the land which had been consecrated to them? First Nephi seperated himselves from his brothers not all that long after his arrival.

2 Nephi 3:2

2 And may the Lord consecrate also unto thee this land

 

This consecration of the land forever occurs well after the land had been consecrated to the Jaredites for the same reason, while their were still Jaredites living on the land, and maybe 10 years after Lehi and his group had been led out of the land which had been consecrated forever to their ancestors, prior to it being taken over by people who were not their ancestors.

2 Nephi 3:2

2 And may the Lord consecrate also unto thee this land, which is a most precious land, for thine inheritance and the inheritance of thy seed with thy brethren, for thy security forever,

 

Mixed, yes, destroyed, no. Depending on the degree of mixing, the end result might not be too different from destruction.

2 Nephi 3:3

3 And now, Joseph, my last-born, whom I have brought out of the wilderness of mine afflictions, may the Lord bless thee forever, for thy seed shall not utterly be destroyed.

 

Another example of a prophet being shown something and keeping it to himself, or there being no record of it.

2 Nephi 3:5

5 Wherefore, Joseph truly saw our day. 

 

 

I guess this refers to the preaching of the gospel to the descendants of Lehi in the latter days.

2 Nephi 3:5

5  that the Messiah should be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the spirit of power, unto the bringing of them out of darkness unto light

 

I'm uncertain as to the purpose of this vision or what value God saw in telling Joseph the future of one tiny sliver of his posterity so far off in the future. I don't imagine I would feel a lot of interest in, or connection with, the fate of a group of people who were descended from one of my descendants who would not be born for another thousand years or so.

2 Nephi 3:11

11 But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins

 

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, zil2 said:

Sort of like Who's on first?

ETA: And there are four Josephs - it said Joseph Smith would be named after his father.

No, it was more like 

Quote

And manning all the bases are Nephi, Nephi, and Nephi.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Carborendum

[zil2]

2 Nephi 4

v2: While we may wish we had these prophecies from the brass plates, it seems clear to me that the Lord gives to each dispensation and generation the prophecies which they most need.  Lehi's descendants needed to know what Joseph prophesied regarding them.  We don't need that (apparently).  Similarly, there are things we have that they apparently didn't need.

v15-16: Can we say we feel the same way Nephi did about the scriptures?  Do we do as he did?

v19+: Trust God, remember his blessings to you, continually plead for his help, learn from him.  Let God's goodness motivate you to make better choices.  Repent.

v33: "Wilt thou make my path straight before me!"  This is the only time I remember this phrase being used this way.  Usually, it's "...Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."  (The original, in Isaiah, makes more sense to me: "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." and Alma's: "Repent ye, and prepare the way of the Lord, and walk in his paths, which are straight")

v35: Don't ask "amiss".

2 Nephi 5

When the parents are gone, the children get up to no good...

v6: What sisters?  This is the first (and only?) mention of Nephi having sisters.  Are these the wives of his brothers or did Lehi have daughters that everyone forgot to mention until now?  (We have no idea whether Sariah is alive or dead at this point.)

v11+: The Lord blesses your efforts, not so much your procrastination or intent to do it tomorrow...

v25: Perhaps our first reaction to "scourges" should be to remember God and repent...

v27: The "manner of happiness" is hard work and obeying God (per previous verses).

v30: When the Lord asks you to do something that seems redundant, do it anyway! v34: Even if it takes 10 years to complete...

[Carborendum]

54 minutes ago, zil2 said:

v6: What sisters?  This is the first (and only?) mention of Nephi having sisters.  Are these the wives of his brothers or did Lehi have daughters that everyone forgot to mention until now?  (We have no idea whether Sariah is alive or dead at this point.)

Lehi and Sariah definitely had daughters because the sons of Ishmael married them.

[zil2]

49 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Lehi and Sariah definitely had daughters because the sons of Ishmael married them.

Where does it say that?  For all we know, they were already married when they joined Lehi's group.  In fact, in 1 Nephi 7:6, it says: "...and the two sons of Ishmael and their families..." - the sons were already married.

[Carborendum]

3 hours ago, zil2 said:

Where does it say that?  For all we know, they were already married when they joined Lehi's group.  In fact, in 1 Nephi 7:6, it says: "...and the two sons of Ishmael and their families..." - the sons were already married.

Hmm... (scratches head).  I never noticed that before.  I had assumed.  

But the fact that he mentions them as he mentions his younger brothers, Jacob and Joseph, and the fact that he doesn't say "and their families" would lead us to believe that they were also born in the wilderness, therefore very young and unmarried.

Cool.

[zil2]

I just created next week's thread for 2 Nephi 10 - 2 Nephi 28:

 

[zil2]

2 Nephi 6

v2: "...I have spoken unto you exceedingly many things."  In our day, Jacob would have been a High Counselor or maybe a Stake President. (Historically, Stake High Counselors get teased a lot for giving long, boring talks that put people to sleep.  Obviously, whether this is true will depend on the individuals.)

v3: Before you can teach, you have to learn, so study the word of God so that He can make use of you.

Be on the Lord's side - however bad things get, life is better there.

2 Nephi 7

Don't know what to add.

2 Nephi 8

v7+: The Lord's law should be in your heart and you should not fear men - the Lord is more powerful and true.  Remember him and his blessings.

Repent. Be humble.  Don't afflict others, cuz it's not gonna be pleasant for those who do...

[Jamie123]

2 hours ago, zil2 said:

2 Nephi 7

Don't know what to add.

We're really reading Isaiah now. This is the third of the four "Servant Songs".

Something odd I've just discovered comparing translations: the King James, NIV and NRSV (as well as the BoM) all have the imagery of fire in verse 11. There is no mention of it in the Good News Bible, which merely says that those who plot to destroy others will be destroyed by their own plots. How mundane! I much prefer the image of the flying sparks. It makes me think of Bonfire Night.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Jamie123

[askandanswer]

I didn't make it past the chapter introduction today.

The beginning of the fulfillment of this prophecy is plain to see. The phrase "all their lands of promise" suggests that there are several lands of promise, and not just one or two. This raises the idea that specific lands belong to specific people although there are many examples of how people who were promised a land then lose that land because of failing to adhere to the conditions on which it was given. 

2 Nephi 9

Jacob explains that the Jews will be gathered in all their lands of promise

 

Possibly it was God who determined what the consequences of sin would be. So perhaps it can be argued that the atonement ransoms man from a situation that God is responsible for creating. Rather than creating a difficult situation and then coming up with a difficult means of escaping that situation, it might make more sense not to create the difficult situation. There must be more to this than meets the eye. Its a bit curious that we are given such a limited knowledge of the key component of the whole plan of salvation. I guess one outcome of this limited knowledge is that it helps, or it means we are required, in the absence of an adequate explanation, to build faith in the atonement. And yet, as latter-day saints, with additional scripture, we still have more knowledge and light regarding the atonement and its purpose than other denominations.

Second note: I suspect that what the atonement doesn't save men from is the extinction of identity and consciousness, which I believe never happens. Death changes part of the form in which that identity and consciousness is housed, from a body with a spirit to a spirit without a body, but the life itself continues.

2 Nephi 9

The Atonement ransoms man from the Fall

 

As nice as paradise is, it is just a holding place while awaiting judgement. Its not clear how well the conditions of paradise compare to the number of possible post paradisiacal conditions one might next experience. Is paradise a better or worse place than the telestial kingdom?

2 Nephi 9

 and from paradise

 

I'm unsure of how well this phrase is written.

As mentioned above, I believe that identity and consciousness continue after the death of the body, and that no atonement is needed to "save" these.

The atonement does not prevent the  spirit from entering the conditions of hell but it does provide a means for the spirit to leave those conditions at the time of judgement, although again, it is not clear why an atonment is needed for this when it is likely that God could simply abolish hell, or call forth its inhabitants at any time, with or without an atonement.

I believe that individuals, through their persistently right choices are the ones who save themselves from the devil. The devil will continue to exist but we save ourselves from him.

Those who meet the entry requirements for endless torment will not be saved by the atonement. They have placed themselves in a position where they are beyond saving.

I guess there are some, maybe even all, who, without an atonement, were headed for endless torment but for whom the atonement makes it possible to avoid that outcome. That raises the question of by whom, and why were things set up in such a way that a person who had lived a righteous, but not 100% sin-free life should end up in a condition of endless torment.

 

2 Nephi 9

—The Atonement saves from death, hell, the devil, and endless torment

 

 

I think there are some who were righteous who will still end up in the telestial kingdom. They were righteous, but perhaps not sufficiently so, and they were other things besides being righteous. If this is true, then it could be implied from this statement that each of the three kingdoms are kingdoms of God, although that would be inconsistent with the usual meaning that is attached to that phrase.

2 Nephi 9

The righteous are to be saved in the kingdom of God

 

In most, maybe all, countries in the temporal world, the penalties for breaking the law are updated from time to time, or adjusted to stay in line with changing social expectations. In God's world, those penalties vary according to culpability, as determined by one's degree of knowledge

The Holy One of Israel is the keeper of the gate

 

 

The Holy One of Israel is the keeper of the gate. About 559–545 B.C.

Sun, 24 Sept 2023

Being the one who undertook the atonement, which made entry through the gate possible, its appropriate that Christ is its keeper.

 

 

[zil2]

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

...I guess one outcome of this limited knowledge is that it helps, or it means we are required, in the absence of an adequate explanation, to build faith in the atonement....

Note that what you quoted is older wording and the Church leadership wouldn't phrase it that way these days.  The Atonement is not a sentient entity or a process or anything else capable of doing something.  Jesus Christ does it all - he atoned for us - the Atonement is what he did, what he went through.  Jesus Christ saves.  We build faith in Christ, that Christ, because of his atonement, has the power and right to save us.

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

 

I believe that individuals, through their persistently right choices are the ones who save themselves from the devil. The devil will continue to exist but we save ourselves from him.

This is flat-out false.  Scriptures clearly teach that without Christ, we would be subject to the devil forever.  He redeems us.  We cannot save ourselves.

As for how one sin can condemn a person to eternal torment - it's a flaw.  An un-repaired flaw (and we can't repair our own flaws) will get worse, guaranteed - if you don't believe it, just sit outside your house for a century without repairing anything and see what happens.  In the words of Nibley (Approaching Zion, Chapter 2 "What is Zion? A Distant View"):

Quote

But a moment's reflection will show that Zion cannot possibly be other than wholly pure. For Zion is the eternal order; it has existed elsewhere from the eternities and will someday be permanently established on this earth. Even the smallest impurity or flaw in anything designed to continue forever would, in the course of an infinite stretching of time, become a thing of infinite mischief. The most perfect structures men have been able to erect have been short-lived because of tiny, all-but-imperceptible flaws. Hence, any flaw, no matter how small, must be removed from a system designed to be timeless; otherwise, there will be no end of trouble. The only kind of life that can be endured forever is one completely devoid of sin, for we are told that the most calamitous thing that could befall man at present would be for him to reach forth his hand and partake of the tree of life and live forever in his sins.

Not gonna comment on the rest, but everywhere you write about "the Atonement" doing something, replace "the Atonement" with "Jesus Christ" and you'll have a clearer view.