Book of Mormon Reading Group?

[Jamie123]

Is anyone else reading The Book of Mormon at the moment? A couple of days back I thought I'd give it another go. And then I thought it would be nice to start a reading group to go through the entire book in stages and exchange thoughts.

On one occasion some missionaries on comeuntichrist.com threw me out of the chat (with the usual "we respect your thoughts but... blah blah... we have a testimony..." etc.) because I dared to suggest that the BoM was written in King James English rather than the language of ancient America.

It would be nice to have a free and open dialogue without fear of that sort of thing. Would anyone be up for it?

P.S. I have only barely started - I am on 1 Nephi 18 so it's no trouble for me to start over.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Jamie123

[zil2]

I just finished my reading and was starting over today.  I was planning to study a specific topic, instead of starting over from the beginning, but I can change that.  I tend to read slowly, since I'm studying, not reading.  If you need someone who understands history and, say, Jewish culture in 600 BC, archeological evidence, linguistics, comparative religion, or other such knowledge, well, you're looking for someone other than me.  But if you want to talk about what the book says and what the Church teaches, I'm game.

[Jamie123]

20 minutes ago, zil2 said:

I just finished my reading and was starting over today.  I was planning to study a specific topic, instead of starting over from the beginning, but I can change that.  I tend to read slowly, since I'm studying, not reading.  If you need someone who understands history and, say, Jewish culture in 600 BC, archeological evidence, linguistics, comparative religion, or other such knowledge, well, you're looking for someone other than me.  But if you want to talk about what the book says and what the Church teaches, I'm game.

That sounds excellent - thank you We can perhaps fill the gaps in each other's knowledge where necessary!

P.S. We'll wait a bit in case anyone else wants to join. If it's going to be just the two of us, perhaps you could lead it and set the pace? (Since you know it far better than me.)

Edited September 7, 2023 by Jamie123

[Vort]

I would love to participate in such a thing. My personal study at the moment is actually currently in the Bible, but I'm always happy to read the Book of Mormon.

[Jamie123]

OK so three of us so far! I suggest we start, and maybe others will join in as we go.

I think one of you should lead the group, since you have both read the entire book before. (I have only read about a third of it, and a long time ago.)

Maybe we could work on a week-by-week basis, with a set number of chapters each week (set by the leader). At the end of each week, we share what we thought of what we have read, and share anything we think might be helpful to the others. Or it either of you have a better idea we could go with that!

(I think Vort and Zil know me well enough, but others may be looking at me suspiciously: you are correct, I am not an LDS Church member, and have no plans of becoming one. I may possibly change my mind some day ("never say never!") but at the moment that is my position. However, I am not interested in talking anyone else out of their beliefs. For the purpose of this exercise I am going "inside" the world of the BoM, and trying to understand what it means to those who believe in it.)  

Edited September 8, 2023 by Jamie123

[laronius]

I'm in. I usually like to study by topic but as long as we aren't covering a lot of material each week it should be no problem adding this to my study schedule. But don't base the schedule on me. I can jump ahead if needed. Maybe you should give everyone an idea of what you are comfortable with @Jamie123 since this will be your first time going all the way through. How long did it take you to go through the first 18 chapters?

[askandanswer]

I'm interested. I've never participated in a book club of any sort before and from a selfish point of view, I can certainly see some benefits for me in participating in a club which includes @Vortand @zil2as members. 

 

[Jamie123]

15 minutes ago, laronius said:

How long did it take you to go through the first 18 chapters?

I started reading on Tuesday this week, and I've now nearly finished 1 Nephi. I think this may be a bit fast though to do it very thoroughly. Maybe perhaps we could try to average 10 chapters a week?

However some parts will inevitably be denser than others, so it will need someone with a good working knowledge allocate material for each week.

[zil2]

23 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I'm interested. I've never participated in a book club of any sort before and from a selfish point of view, I can certainly see some benefits for me in participating in a club which includes @Vortand @zil2as members.

I forgot to mention, we will require all posts to be photographs or scans of handwritten notes made using a fountain pen.

[LDSGator]

4 minutes ago, zil2 said:

I forgot to mention, we will require all posts to be photographs or scans of handwritten notes made using a fountain pen.

I use colored coded tabs for mine but eventually I forgot what color meant what so I just began to use all sorts of colors for whatever reason I wanted. 

[zil2]

1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

I use colored coded tabs for mine but eventually I forgot what color meant what so I just began to use all sorts of colors for whatever reason I wanted. 

Love it.  I tried to figure out how to color-coordinate my notes in the gospel library app and quickly determined it wasn't a practical exercise, so I just use tags generously and use whatever color suits me at the time.  Heaven help anyone trying to make sense of it.

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Love it.  I tried to figure out how to color-coordinate my notes in the gospel library app and quickly determined it wasn't a practical exercise, so I just use tags generously and use whatever color suits me at the time.  Heaven help anyone trying to make sense of it.

My tri is the same.

[zil2]

3 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

I think one of you should lead the group, since you have both read the entire book before. (I have only read about a third of it, and a long time ago.)

Well, that would have to be @Vort - oh, scratch that - he, @laronius and @askandanswer (hooray, more people!) will have to cast lots which of them shall be our group leader -- I've just finished reading Paul's admonition to keep my mouth shut except at home - in fact, the only reason I can participate at all is because I will in fact be doing so from home and I won't actually be speaking...   (Don't worry, I'm just trying to tease Paul from afar - I'm not actually serious.)

3 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Maybe we could work on a week-by-week basis, with a set number of chapters each week (set by the leader). At the end of each week, we share what we thought of what we have read, and share anything we think might be helpful to the others. Or it either of you have a better idea we could go with that!

This sounds reasonable to me.  If anyone wants to share thoughts more often, no reason not to, otherwise plan to share weekly.

1 hour ago, Jamie123 said:

I started reading on Tuesday this week, and I've now nearly finished 1 Nephi.

Everyone races through it right up until they hit The Isaiah Chapters™. 

1 hour ago, Jamie123 said:

Maybe perhaps we could try to average 10 chapters a week?

Given the length of some chapters and significant variation in how much there is to pick apart, it might be better to decide each week which chapters will constitute next week's reading.  The 2024 Come, Follow Me break-down might be another way to do it - they generally have things broken down into manageable weekly chunks.  (That would also make those of us who are Church members look really impressive - or at least better prepared than usual - to our fellow Sunday School class members...   Alternately, it could make us really confused once January hits...)

Last thought on procedure: This will be largely for your benefit, @Jamie123, though I'm certain we will all benefit.  But the rest of us likely study the Book of Mormon all the time (I study from it daily, the Church uses it every 4th year as the Sunday School material).  So to me, it's important that we maintain a pace that allows you to accomplish your goal without dropping out due to boredom because we aren't moving fast enough, or getting lost because we're moving too fast.  So please do speak up on our pace - the rest of us can skim if we have to (I imagine that will bring a lot to our memories), or read slower (not likely a problem as we're all also studying the New Testament for Sunday School, plus whatever personal study we may be doing).

Edited September 8, 2023 by zil2

[Jamie123]

56 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Everyone races through it right up until they hit The Isaiah Chapters™. 

I well remember the "Isaiah chapters" from 30 years ago (my abortive first time around). I remember asking the missionaries what the point of them was, since you could easily just read Isaiah. Their response was "Well Nephi's just writing out things that mean a lot to him - don't you do that yourself?" To which the answer of course is "yes".

It's important to remember too that having your own personal copy of the Bible which you could read yourself is a relatively new thing. One complaint Martin Luther had of the Catholic church was that the Bible was not available even to many priests of his day. More recently there was Mary Jones, the young Welsh girl who taught herself to read, worked and saved for years, and at the age of fifteen walked barefoot for 26 miles over the mountains to buy her own Bible from a vicar called Thomas Charles. When she arrived (her feet by that time covered in blood) the vicar was utterly astonished and so impressed that he gave her a whole stack of Bibles (all written in Welsh) to take back to her village. Two of those "Mary Jones" Bibles still exist: one is in the National Museum of Wales and the other is at a library in Cambridge. I remember this because my workshop teacher in high school was a distant relative of Thomas Charles, and he loved to tell the story.

But anyway I'm getting off the point, which is that free, easy access to scripture didn't exist in 1799 (the year of Mary Jones' journey) and certainly not in the ancient world, so we should probably expect a bit of repetition!

I agree, Isaiah is pretty hard-going. I've only twice in my life read it end-to-end (the second time being a little under a year ago). But I don't think it'll do us any harm to include the parts of the BoM that duplicate the Bible!

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Jamie123

[Jamie123]

49 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Last thought on procedure: This will be largely for your benefit, @Jamie123, though I'm certain we will all benefit.  But the rest of us likely study the Book of Mormon all the time (I study from it daily, the Church uses it every 4th year as the Sunday School material).  So to me, it's important that we maintain a pace that allows you to accomplish your goal without dropping out due to boredom because we aren't moving fast enough, or getting lost because we're moving to fast.  So please do speak up on our pace - the rest of us can skim if we have to (I imagine that will bring a lot to our memories), or read slower (not likely a problem as we're all also studying the New Testament for Sunday School, plus whatever personal study we may be doing).

Thanks for your consideration Zil! I'll remember to shout out if I need to!

[Vort]

50 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Last thought on procedure: This will be largely for your benefit, @Jamie123, though I'm certain we will all benefit.  But the rest of us likely study the Book of Mormon all the time (I study from it daily, the Church uses it every 4th year as the Sunday School material).  So to me, it's important that we maintain a pace that allows you to accomplish your goal without dropping out due to boredom because we aren't moving fast enough, or getting lost because we're moving too fast.  So please do speak up on our pace - the rest of us can skim if we have to (I imagine that will bring a lot to our memories), or read slower (not likely a problem as we're all also studying the New Testament for Sunday School, plus whatever personal study we may be doing).

I heartily second this. I'm happy to have @zil2 or someone else (even me) sort of take charge of the reading schedule, but this particular reading is primarily for @Jamie123's benefit. So Jamie will ultimately determine how fast we go. On the other hand, it's easy to stop and dwell on various aspects, and I personally have little problem "getting in the weeds", as long as our overall purpose doesn't get lost.

I propose that we generally sort of shoot for an end-of-December reading rate, with the understanding that we can move slower, even much slower (or for that matter, faster) if desired. That's about a five-page-per-day reading rate or a tad more, which is fairly ambitious but not at all unreasonable, IMO. My experience has taught me that reading scriptures as if you're reading a novel misses much of the point of scripture study, and reading scriptures as if you're reading a textbook tends to obscure the narrative—and in the case of the Book of Mormon, moreso than any other book of scripture, the narrative is an important foundation for understanding what you're reading.

I also propose (though this is completely at Jamie's discretion) that we restart at the very beginning. The book of 1 Nephi sets the stage for everything that follows, so I think it's worth rereading for an endeavor like this.

[Jamie123]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

I also propose (though this is completely at Jamie's discretion) that we restart at the very beginning. The book of 1 Nephi sets the stage for everything that follows, so I think it's worth rereading for an endeavor like this.

I totally agree - and thank you. I'm sure I will benefit from starting over as much as anyone else!

[Vort]

FWIW, here is a synopsis of the Book of Mormon that I wrote some years back for @Sunday21. You can check out the thread, if you want.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CceWZW7dZiR-tMr4NRWB1p-yNheirGDc92CtrjSRdO8/edit?usp=sharing

I haven't updated this or even looked at it in quite some time. I'm sure there are elements here and there where I would change what I wrote back then. But this might provide a reasonable 50,000-foot overview. That's about 113° C for you metric folks, or 25.7 kg.

[zil2]

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

I propose that we generally sort of shoot for an end-of-December reading rate

So, I used the Android app to create a study plan starting today and ending Sunday, 31 Dec 2023, allowing chapters to be split. (Just to get an idea.)  It has all the intro material for today, and looks to average 2-3 chapters per day thereafter, though it splits them quite frequently.  This seems reasonable to me - we can split chapters or not, whatever works.

At this pace, I'd imagine myself posting more often than weekly - there will be a lot worth commenting on in 5 pages or 2-3 chapters per day.

[Jamie123]

20 minutes ago, Vort said:

FWIW, here is a synopsis of the Book of Mormon that I wrote some years back for @Sunday21. You can check out the thread, if you want.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CceWZW7dZiR-tMr4NRWB1p-yNheirGDc92CtrjSRdO8/edit?usp=sharing

I haven't updated this or even looked at it in quite some time. I'm sure there are elements here and there where I would change what I wrote back then. But this might provide a reasonable 50,000-foot overview. That's about 113° C for you metric folks, or 25.7 kg.

That looks very interesting - I read the first bit, but I'll have to study it more closely later!

I'm glad you posted this because all these different plates get confusing. It'll be good to have this page as a "map" to refer to.

I always find my mind drifting onto South Park's take on the matter: "Martin Harris dum dum dum..."

P.S. I've found this app very useful: The Book of Mormon on the App Store (apple.com)

Edited September 8, 2023 by Jamie123

[zil2]

Ha!  Hooray for LDS programmers with nothing better to do in life:

I decided to start tomorrow, since we've got international folk and today is almost over for Jamie...  And I decided to start with 1 Nephi - those looking for something to do today can read the intro materials - they count after all...

It does account for really long chapters - e.g. Jacob 5 gets 2 days...

X	Date	Read Through
	Sep 9	1 Nephi 3
	Sep 10	1 Nephi 5
	Sep 11	1 Nephi 8
	Sep 12	1 Nephi 11
	Sep 13	1 Nephi 13
	Sep 14	1 Nephi 14
	Sep 15	1 Nephi 16
	Sep 16	1 Nephi 17
	Sep 17	1 Nephi 18
	Sep 18	1 Nephi 20
	Sep 19	1 Nephi 22
	Sep 20	2 Nephi 2
	Sep 21	2 Nephi 3
	Sep 22	2 Nephi 5
	Sep 23	2 Nephi 8
	Sep 24	2 Nephi 9
	Sep 25	2 Nephi 11
	Sep 26	2 Nephi 15
	Sep 27	2 Nephi 19
	Sep 28	2 Nephi 23
	Sep 29	2 Nephi 25
	Sep 30	2 Nephi 26
	Oct 1	2 Nephi 28
	Oct 2	2 Nephi 31
	Oct 3	Jacob 1
	Oct 4	Jacob 3
	Oct 5	Jacob 5
	Oct 6	Jacob 5
	Oct 7	Enos 1
	Oct 8	Omni 1
	Oct 9	Mosiah 1
	Oct 10	Mosiah 2
	Oct 11	Mosiah 4
	Oct 12	Mosiah 7
	Oct 13	Mosiah 9
	Oct 14	Mosiah 11
	Oct 15	Mosiah 13
	Oct 16	Mosiah 15
	Oct 17	Mosiah 18
	Oct 18	Mosiah 21
	Oct 19	Mosiah 23
	Oct 20	Mosiah 26
	Oct 21	Mosiah 27
	Oct 22	Mosiah 29
	Oct 23	Alma 2
	Oct 24	Alma 4
	Oct 25	Alma 5
	Oct 26	Alma 7
	Oct 27	Alma 9
	Oct 28	Alma 10
	Oct 29	Alma 12
	Oct 30	Alma 14
	Oct 31	Alma 15
	Nov 1	Alma 17
	Nov 2	Alma 19
	Nov 3	Alma 21
	Nov 4	Alma 23
	Nov 5	Alma 25
	Nov 6	Alma 27
	Nov 7	Alma 30
	Nov 8	Alma 31
	Nov 9	Alma 32
	Nov 10	Alma 34
	Nov 11	Alma 36
	Nov 12	Alma 37
	Nov 13	Alma 40
	Nov 14	Alma 43
	Nov 15	Alma 43
	Nov 16	Alma 46
	Nov 17	Alma 47
	Nov 18	Alma 49
	Nov 19	Alma 51
	Nov 20	Alma 52
	Nov 21	Alma 55
	Nov 22	Alma 56
	Nov 23	Alma 58
	Nov 24	Alma 60
	Nov 25	Alma 62
	Nov 26	Helaman 1
	Nov 27	Helaman 3
	Nov 28	Helaman 5
	Nov 29	Helaman 6
	Nov 30	Helaman 8
	Dec 1	Helaman 11
	Dec 2	Helaman 12
	Dec 3	Helaman 14
	Dec 4	3 Nephi 1
	Dec 5	3 Nephi 3
	Dec 6	3 Nephi 4
	Dec 7	3 Nephi 7
	Dec 8	3 Nephi 9
	Dec 9	3 Nephi 11
	Dec 10	3 Nephi 13
	Dec 11	3 Nephi 16
	Dec 12	3 Nephi 18
	Dec 13	3 Nephi 20
	Dec 14	3 Nephi 22
	Dec 15	3 Nephi 26
	Dec 16	3 Nephi 28
	Dec 17	4 Nephi 1
	Dec 18	Mormon 2
	Dec 19	Mormon 5
	Dec 20	Mormon 7
	Dec 21	Mormon 9
	Dec 22	Ether 2
	Dec 23	Ether 4
	Dec 24	Ether 7
	Dec 25	Ether 10
	Dec 26	Ether 12
	Dec 27	Ether 13
	Dec 28	Moroni 2
	Dec 29	Moroni 7
	Dec 30	Moroni 9
	Dec 31	Moroni 10

I put that in a google sheet I can share if anyone really wants - but it's easy enough to copy and paste...

Edited September 8, 2023 by zil2

[Jamie123]

2 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Ha!  Hooray for LDS programmers with nothing better to do in life:

I decided to start tomorrow, since we've got international folk and today is almost over for Jamie...  And I decided to start with 1 Nephi - those looking for something to do today can read the intro materials - they count after all...

It does account for really long chapters - e.g. Jacob 5 gets 2 days...

Haha - so I can put my feet up until 18th September!

Only joking! I'll start again like everyone else

[JohnsonJones]

I always enjoy reading the Book of Mormon.  I can restart from where I'm at and join in on the group.

[Vort]

A suggestion: Start by reading the Testimony of Three Witnesses and Testimony of Eight Witnesses, then read the frontispiece (the page that begins, "The Book of Mormon: An account written by the hand of Mormon upon plates taken from the plates of Nephi. Wherefore, etc."). The testimonies make up one rather short page, as does the frontispiece, and the frontispiece is actually a part of the translation of the Book of Mormon, having been written by Mormon (I assume).

[Vort]

One more sort of philosophical item. In any serious reading of a book, you choose how you approach it. With a novel, for example, you usually approach it as a retelling of a sort of history, even if it's a fiction novel. With a textbook, you approach it as a tutorial and a reference.

The Book of Mormon could be approached in many ways. Two of the most obvious ways are: (1) as an actual, literal history of a fallen people, with all the flaws, misstatements, and niggling grammatical and continuity errors that such an authentic history unavoidably contains; and, (2) as a work of 19th-century American frontier-produced fiction. As a non-Latter-day Saint, Jamie, your first instinct might be to approach the Book of Mormon in the latter way. Let me suggest that, for the sake of this reading, you temporarily set aside your opinions or reservations about historicity, and read the book as if you accept it at face value, on its own terms, as an actual history of a fallen people.

My reason for suggesting this is that if you are constantly questioning and wondering where Joseph Smith (or whichever purported author you choose to assign credit to) got this or that idea or came up with such-and-such a notion, you will almost certainly miss much of the "LDS experience" in reading the Book of Mormon. Suspend your disbelief, so to speak, and accept the book on its own terms. In doing so, I believe your experience will be more authentic to how Latter-day Saints read the book, more engaging on a personal level, and in the end a more satisfying experience.