Book of Mormon Reading Group: 25 Dec - 31 Dec 2023 (Ether 8 - Moroni 10)

[askandanswer]

4 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

I can't quote chapter and verse, but isn't there something somewhere about people in beseiged cities "feeding upon the fruit of the womb"?

Indeed there is. Its been too long since I read the Old Testament. My goal is to read it all in 2024

Deuteronomy 28:53

t53 And thou shalt ^aeat the fruit of thine own body, the ^bflesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the ^cstraitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:

[zil2]

3 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I guess that in the circumstances in which Mormon was living and fighting it was entirely possible that he was alive at the time he wrote the letter but dead by the time Moroni read it. 

Context suggests it was written well before that last battle.  I suspect the letter was exchanged and read before Mormon died, and Moroni, rereading it after everyone else was dead (because, you know, lonely), decided it was worthy of inclusion on the plates.  (Poor Moroni - he must have been so lonely.)  But heaven knows.

3 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I really think its his statues that should be on top of the temples rather than Moroni's. Moroni just wrapped up the details of his father's work.

Mormon's work was in his day.  Moroni was the angel of the restoration.  Whatever the reason, Moroni was chosen to represent the Book of Mormon peoples and aid in the restoration.  Perhaps he was the last key-holder from the Book of Mormon.  Or perhaps that was just the calling to which he was foreordained.  Whatever the case, we may be assured that this was the Lord's decision and therefore the right one.

3 hours ago, askandanswer said:

This is the first I remember reading about cannibalism in any of the scriptures.

From the verse @Jamie123 mentioned, we have in the footnotes, Leviticus 26:29 and Jeremiah 19:9.  Elsewhere, we have Lamentations 2:20 and 4:10, and Ezekiel 5:10.  Also, 2 Kings 6:28-29 and Micah 3:1-4 (might be figurative, but the idea had to come from somewhere).  Some suggest that people sacrificed to idols were generally also eaten after begin cooked (burnt).

[zil2]

Today's delay was brought to you by cannibalism and Klawboy McPurry needing cuddles.

Moroni 8 (letter from Mormon to Moroni)

v2: Rejoice when others are called to serve God.

v3: And pray for their spiritual welfare.

v6: Correct errors (within your stewardship / as appropriate).

v8: Annoying though they sometimes are, apparently, little children cannot sin.  And because they cannot sin, the Lord's got them covered, unconditionally.

v9: "solemn mockery" seems a strange combination.  I suppose in this instance "solemn" means "serious" or "severe".  And I suppose "mockery" is less the "derision" definition, and more "imitation" or "vain effort" definitions.  Doing something which can have no effect.  And in this case, which denies or even rejects the mercy of God.

v10: Learn to become like little children.

v14-16, 19-23: The strength of his language is surprising in some ways.  Perhaps the commonness of this practice in our day has numbed us to this level of response against it.  And I rather doubt those who practice this today have considered what Mormon is teaching here.

v16: "perfect love casteth out all fear" - this is a true principle.  Love the Lord.  Love others.  And if your love is sufficient, you will not be afraid to do what is right in relation to said others.

v19-22+: Don't deny the mercies of Christ for anyone (sometimes we want to think that this or that person should be condemned, but this isn't our place - let Christ judge, be grateful repentance is offered to all and mercy extended to those who cannot repent).

v25: The logical result of repentance is a desire to be baptized.  For those of us who have been baptized, it should be a desire to renew and keep that covenant, act in faith, keep the commandments.  Remission of sins isn't from repentance alone (or, repentance includes keeping the commandments - it is to change your heart and actions).

v26: As you experience the Lord's mercy in forgiving you, you should increase in humility, meekness, lowliness of heart, which will then allow the Holy Ghost to more fully be your companion, filling you with more virtue - it's an ascending spiral, each step raising you to the next.

v27: Whether of a nation or an individual, pride destroys.  Be humble and live.

Moroni 9 (letter from Mormon to Moroni)

v3: Satan may stir, but you, @askandanswer, get to decide whether to get angry.   (Sorry.)

v4: Pay attention to how you receive the word of God, and do whatever's needed to receive it with gladness and gratitude.

v5: I think the precursor to this is simply constantly being angry and hating others, and we have too much of this already - wanting to ruin another person's life (cancel them) because they believe differently or were foolish at some point in the past.   Be a peacemaker!

v6+: Those who know the gospel have a duty to live it and share it.

v7+: Resist everything that encourages or glamorizes or celebrates or leads to brutality - whether it's music, movies, video games, hateful comments on social media - reject it and pray for ways to encourage peace and love instead of it.  Be the light, leaven, and salt of the earth!

v15: Live so that God's judgement doesn't sound scary to you.

v16-20: "...to be helpless is the most subtle of all agonies."
-- The Peking Target, Adam Hall

v22: It is possible to be righteous, even in the midst of the darkest wickedness.

v25-26: Christ can lift us despite whatever horrors are happening around us. Always remember him.

[zil2]

So, tomorrow (or today, for @Jamie123 and @askandanswer) is our last day, and I wanted to say two things before we finish:

1. Thanks, Jamie, for inviting us to join you, and thanks, @Vort, for pushing us to do it by the end of the year so that we don't overlap with the Book of Mormon reading for 2024 Come, Follow Me.  Were it not for these two things, I might never have read the Book of Mormon this quickly, nor been convinced of the value of reading it quickly vs at any other pace.  I have seen patterns I wouldn't otherwise have seen and learned things I wouldn't otherwise have learned, and I'm grateful for that.  I intend to read it even faster at some point, but not in 2024.  If you're reading this, and you've never read the Book of Mormon in 4 months or fewer, I encourage you to try it.

2. In today's chapter, Moroni "exhorts" the reader to ask God if the things they have read are true (there's more to it than that, so read the chapter for details).  The missionaries ask this of people investigating the Church.  I'm not going to ask you, Jamie, whether you intend to do as Moroni encourages - that's a personal matter and you can share it or not.  But I think anyone considering acting on Moroni's exhortation should hear something like @NeuroTypical's story as related here:

 

...so, I'm including a link to that story and this message encouraging you to read NT's story first and then decide what to do about Moroni's exhortation.

I hope you know, whatever you decide to do, that we love you here and that's not going to change either way.

[askandanswer]

Moroni has made this point several times.

Moroni 10:1

 Now I, Moroni, write somewhat as seemeth me good; and I write unto my brethren, the Lamanites;

 

Its interesting that they dated their calendar from the sign of the coming of Christ and not His actual coming.

Moroni 10:1

I would that they should know that more than four hundred and twenty years have passed away since the sign was given of the coming of Christ.

 

 

This puzzles me and I've commented on it before - the deliberate sealing and concealing of the word of God by a servant of God. Moroni, who had most of his life preaching and spreading the word of God ends his life by concealing it.

Its a little unclear what he meant by "these" records. Is he talking only about the gold plates on which the Book of Mormon was engrave or is he talking about all the records of which he had custody?

Moroni 10:2

 And I seal up these records, 

 

 

I bear my testimony that what Moroni has said here is true. I have applied this promise in my life and as a missionary I have taught it to many others and seen them apply it in their lives. As I live, it is true. When a person approaches the Book of Mormon with faith, sincerity and real intent, and earnestly studies and ponders and prays about it, and if they are living their lives in such a way that God is willing to give, and they are willing to receive, an answer to prayer, then they will come to know the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

The answer to the question of whether or not this book is what it claims to be often comes in different ways. For some it comes as a quiet sense of peace and assurance and a sense of "rightness." For others it comes almost as a bright burning light. For others it might be a sense of enjoyment and enlightenment and feeling uplifted when reading and thinking about the Book of Mormon. This sort of answer will never come to those who read with the intent of attacking or critiquing, or tearing it down. For them, the Book of Mormon will always be unexplainable, something to be feared and opposed.

When that answer comes, three things are of greatest importance: first, the ability to recognise that answer, second, a willingness to accept it and not be as those in 3rd Nephi chapter 1 who hardened their heart and rejected the sign that was given, or found ways to explain it away, and third, to act on that answer by further investigating the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as the source and custodian of the Book of Mormon. This book was designed and intended by God to play a major role in the gathering of His children. At some point, as part of everybody's judgement, each of us will be required to give an accounting of how we have responded to this book. It is one of the main tools that God has prepared to help bring His children back to Him through His gospel. The Book of Mormon is one of those major forks that God has placed in the road to provide us with the opportunity to demonstrate to Him where we stand by deciding which fork we will choose. Our decision on whether we accept or reject this book, and how we respond to, it will literally be a turning point in determining our eternal destiny.

The answer will come but that alone is not enough. We must then be willing and able to recognise, accept and act on the answer. A lot is at stake. And God is true to His word. He has made a promise here and He will keep His promise if we abide by all of its terms. The most important of these terms are faith, sincerity, and humility, and a real intent to receive whatever answer God may give, and to change our lives in response to that answer. I've seen this happen many times and I know that it works.

I share this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

 

This is for your @Jamie123You have some decisions to make. Before making those decisions I strongly recommend that you watch an address by former President of the Church, Ezra Taft Benson given in the April 1975 General Conference before he became the Prophet. You have taken the time to listen and watch critics of the Book of Mormon. Here is an excellent opportunity to listen to one of its most powerful supporters. The distinguishing characteristic of President Bensons' tenure as church President was his very strong emphasis on the Book of Mormon. In this address he talks plainly and with power and clarity. After reading the book the way you have over the last few months, and thought about it, and listened to and pondered about this talk, it will be much harder to stay on neutral groud. 

 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1975/04/the-book-of-mormon-is-the-word-of-god?lang=eng

 

Moroni 10:3–5

 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

[zil2]

Moroni 10

v3: Moroni tells us to remember how merciful the Lord has been.  In 1 Nephi 1:20, Nephi tells us he is going to show us "that the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of deliverance."  I submit that the entire Book of Mormon has been showing us what Nephi said he would show us, and what Moroni is telling us to remember.  I further submit that this is no trivial thing - to remember how merciful the Lord has been.  That there are blessings and changes of heart which flow from this exercise.  And like all good things, it can be repeated over and over, each time with a positive outcome - if we will be humble.

v4-5: This is not as simple as it sounds, and applies to all truth, not just the truthfulness of the things presented in this book:

• Ask God (must have an idea who God is and how to ask him)
• in the name of Christ (must have an idea who Christ is and what it means to ask in his name)
• if these things are true (what to ask)
• with a sincere heart (must figure out what this means and how to have a sincere heart)
• with real intent (ditto)
• having faith in Christ (you must already have some - how else could you ask in his name?)
• by the power of the Holy Ghost (must learn to recognize this; it can manifest differently for different people)

v6-7: If it's unjust or false, it's not good.  If it denies Christ, it's not good.  Have faith.

v8+: The gifts of God are many.  Don't let the skeptic in you win, have faith and seek for the best gifts.  But seek them so that you can serve God and others.

v18: Be grateful for the gifts you have, not proud.  They come from Christ, not you.

v19: The consistency of God is critical if we are to have faith in him.  Were he inconsistent, how could we have faith in him?  If something seems inconsistent, recognize it as either a false teaching or a misunderstanding on your part.  Have faith in God and seek understanding.

v20-21: Faith and hope feed or build on each other.  Charity is a gift of God and one must have faith and hope to receive such gifts.

v22: The first part makes perfect sense; the second part can be hard to read for someone suffering from depression.  I'm not entirely convinced that the iniquity has to be in the person feeling despair.  Perhaps it does, I'm just not sure.  Whatever is the case, one can only be benefited by choosing to be humble and to rid oneself of all sin, so work to that end (since you can't rid others of their sins, work on your own).

v23: It doesn't say you can do "all things" by faith, but all things which "are expedient unto [Christ]" - there's a difference.  Don't forget it.  Learn what is expedient to Christ.

v25: When you are doing good, you work by the power and gifts of God.  Be humble and grateful for those gifts.

v29: Believe this!  God can and will show you, if you have faith.  (Or at the judgement day, regardless of faith, I suppose.)

v30: Good counsel to live by every day.  This is the repeated pattern that teaches you to make better and better choices, to love better and better things, to put off the natural man and become a saint.

v31: Temple, covenant, and Church growth imagery.  Like the story of the widow in 2 Kings 4:1-7 - the more room we make, the greater blessings we can receive.

v32-33: Only in Christ can we be perfected.  But to do that, we have to choose to give up all that is unworthy (ungodliness).  And to have the strength to do that, we must love God with our all - because nothing else will allow us to endure that process, nothing else will enable us to be sufficiently humble to accept his grace.

v34: Moroni finally gets to rest, and not be alone any more.  Live so that you can look forward to the "pleasing bar of the great Jehovah".

Phew!  Now, back to the beginning.

[zil2]

This became such a significant part of my day that I'm now sitting here wondering what to do with my time!

[askandanswer]

4 hours ago, zil2 said:

This became such a significant part of my day that I'm now sitting here wondering what to do with my time!

I've started on the Old Testament. Given how long it is, I'm going to need as much time in just reading as I took to read, ponder and write about the Book of Mormon. I'll  be looking carefully to see if there are any changes since the last time I read it. 

Edited January 1 by askandanswer

[zil2]

23 hours ago, zil2 said:

This became such a significant part of my day that I'm now sitting here wondering what to do with my time!

Yep, still instinctively coming here to start a new post for my morning scripture study...  Apparently it only takes 4 months to form muscle memory.

[Jamie123]

Sorry I've not responded for a while. I mainly wanted to thank everyone who took part in this, especially @zil2 for organizing the schedule. Here are a few general comments - I will no doubt think of more in the days to come:

Firstly, everyone in the Book of Mormon (with the one exception of the Jaredites, who are not part of the main narrative) is ethnically Jewish. The Gentiles are mentioned often, but no one beyond Nephi's generation would ever have met an actual Gentile. Contrast this with the New Testament, where there was a huge debate about whether followers of Christ needed to become Jews. This is a question we never think about these days, which gives some traction to the argument that the Book of Mormon was written for our current age.

Secondly, I mentioned before that the Book of Mormon has nothing like the violence of the Old Testament. Of course, I was referring to the portion of the book we had covered up to that point. When you consider the wars in which the Nephites and the Jaredites were exterminated, maybe that is not quite true. But I still think it lacks the sheer bloodyness of (particularly) the book of Joshua where God commands the Israelites to put entire cities to the sword - including children. 

Thirdly (I daresay some people will want to scorch me for saying this) the Book of Ether links with the account of the Tower of Babel from Genesis. The early parts of Genesis are difficult to take literally in the light of what we now know about anthropology, geology and astronomy. (Though Ken Ham and the "Answers in Genesis" people would claim otherwise.) I have always regarded the Creation, the Fall, the Flood and the Tower of Babel as "myths" - not in the negative sense of being "untrue", but in the sense that they express genuine truths symbolically, and still being inspired by God. The Tower of Babel story is a "myth" to symbolise the way human languages have diverged - and to underline that this has happened in line with God's plan. But I don't necessarily see this as a problem. Perhaps the Jaredite nation did inherit the Babel myth from the same source as the Israelites' ancestors and take it with them to the New World. And if the Bible contains divinely inspired mythology, why not the Book of Mormon too?

I will no doubt think of more things to add in the days to come. Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this exercise. It has been immensely illuminating for me, and I hope everyone else has gained from it too.

Edited January 3 by Jamie123