Tripartite model & Animals

[mikbone]

In B H Roberts immortality of Man he proposes a Tripartite model.  

http://boap.org/LDS/Parallel/Immortality-of-Man.html

Wherein before the beginning we were first intelligences.  Then in the beginning, we were spiritually begotten into spirit children.  And finally upon entry into mortality we are physically begotten by our Earthly parents into mortal beings.

Intelligences -> Spirits -> Mortal beings

From D&C 77:2 we see that Joseph Smith comments on the spirit of the beasts.  

This begs the question, if the beasts have spirits, do they also follow a tripartite model?

Did some intelligences decide to become beast spirits?

Will animals become resurrected?

“So we see that the Lord intends to save, not only the earth and the heavens, not only man who dwells upon the earth, but all things which he has created. The animals, the fishes of the sea, the fowls of the air, as well as man, are to be recreated, or renewed, through the resurrection, for they too are living souls.”  - Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1928

[CV75]

On 1/11/2024 at 5:11 AM, mikbone said:

In B H Roberts immortality of Man he proposes a Tripartite model.  

http://boap.org/LDS/Parallel/Immortality-of-Man.html

Wherein before the beginning we were first intelligences.  Then in the beginning, we were spiritually begotten into spirit children.  And finally upon entry into mortality we are physically begotten by our Earthly parents into mortal beings.

Intelligences -> Spirits -> Mortal beings

From D&C 77:2 we see that Joseph Smith comments on the spirit of the beasts.  

This begs the question, if the beasts have spirits, do they also follow a tripartite model?

Did some intelligences decide to become beast spirits?

Will animals become resurrected?

“So we see that the Lord intends to save, not only the earth and the heavens, not only man who dwells upon the earth, but all things which he has created. The animals, the fishes of the sea, the fowls of the air, as well as man, are to be recreated, or renewed, through the resurrection, for they too are living souls.”  - Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1928

The other thread about keeping estates prompted to take another look at this, and I see there are no replies! So, I thought, "OK, it's been a few days; let's keep it weird!)  

D&C 77:2 says the beasts have sprits (and Genesis/Moses says that all things were organized spiritually before physically).

D&C 77:3 says the beasts are organized into "orders" or "classes," which is an estate. And then a scary word is used: "destined." And verse 4 says they are full of knowledge (a beast?). And that they have power to act and not be acted upon (agency). 

Everyone who is exalted receives a white stone and lives on the Earth which has become a Urim and Thummim. So, things pertaining to kingdoms of higher order and all things pertaining to kingdoms of lower orders are known. What if exalted persons are but the head of a much larger organism that, by integrating other exalted persons, all forms of life, and all materials in all their forms and orders, shares knowledge and agency with all of life?

I think we have a microcosm of that in the Garden of Eden: when Adam and Eve fell, so did the rest of their stewardship. As this stewardship will be resurrected and set in proper order, it also existed in spirit form (order, class, estate), and intelligence form (order, class, estate). Maybe we are all part of one organism, and all parts of the organism exist for individual and collective eternal felicity. Maybe we are more than who and what we think we are, and have been all along. After all, there are some 40 trillion microbes keeping our bodies strong and healthy, maybe they have been with us all along too, not to mention all other forms of life (some of which admittedly become deleterious since the fall, but that can be fixed) sharing and contributing to our intelligence -- that would be the intelligent thing to do  !

Edited January 14, 2024 by CV75

[mikbone]

6 minutes ago, CV75 said:

After all, there are some 40 trillion microbes keeping our bodies strong and healthy, maybe they have been with us all along too

Eww 😷 

[mikbone]

Please don’t let there be a celestial version of a roach.

I’m ok with the animals, the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air.

Gonna pass on the creeping things.

Edited January 14, 2024 by mikbone

[CV75]

3 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Please don’t let there be a celestial version of a roach.

I’m ok with he animals, the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air.

Gonna pass on the creeping things.

I meant to get back to the scary word, "destined." It's not really scary: if all these things have been attached to us, and we to them, all along the tripartite model, then they/we are destined to remain together as we keep our estates (back to other thread  ) The unworthy may have some or all of what they had before given to others, but that is no new principle. The interesting thing to me is the pattern or cycle of organization, dissolution, restoration and reorganization, or of birth, death, rebirth and progress, by virtue of the Atonement of Christ.

[LDSGator]

I’m certainly not an expert, but I’ve read his “Studies on the Book of Mormon.”  He doesn’t seen to believe what he was writing. I think he died a very unhappy and conflicted guy. 😞 

[Traveler]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:11 AM, mikbone said:

In B H Roberts immortality of Man he proposes a Tripartite model.  

http://boap.org/LDS/Parallel/Immortality-of-Man.html

Wherein before the beginning we were first intelligences.  Then in the beginning, we were spiritually begotten into spirit children.  And finally upon entry into mortality we are physically begotten by our Earthly parents into mortal beings.

Intelligences -> Spirits -> Mortal beings

From D&C 77:2 we see that Joseph Smith comments on the spirit of the beasts.  

This begs the question, if the beasts have spirits, do they also follow a tripartite model?

Did some intelligences decide to become beast spirits?

Will animals become resurrected?

“So we see that the Lord intends to save, not only the earth and the heavens, not only man who dwells upon the earth, but all things which he has created. The animals, the fishes of the sea, the fowls of the air, as well as man, are to be recreated, or renewed, through the resurrection, for they too are living souls.”  - Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1928

I will offer some opinion but with the caveat that I do not have sufficient understanding (revelation?) to have come to any valid conclusion – rather more of a leaning towards ideas.

It is my understanding that all matter (perhaps even energy?) exists with a spirit.  I am led by scripture to believe that the earth has a spirit.  The question that is still unanswered for me is if the earth has a spirit, does each grain of sand on earth have a spirit separate from the world spirit?

I have also listened to and participated in a discussion about the physical matter that comprises our body.  Does my physical body actually belong to me.  Part of the problem is that there are living organisms that share a symbiotic relationship with the living cells that are comprised of my DNA.  When I get a hair cut or clip my fingernails there are cells that have my DNA that I do not have residing connected to.  If I lose a finger or an arm, am I no longer myself?  Is part of me missing?  I get the impression that in the resurrection nothing that is me will be lost. 

There is a saying that you are what you eat.  If I die at sea and I am eaten by a shark and later that shark is eaten by some fisherman’s family – who gets to keep the physical matter, me or someone else.  What am I?

Many, especially traditional Christians believe that there was a beginning as a liter translation of the beginning phrases of Genesis.  But there is an alternate reading among experts in the Hebrew language that a alternate translation of the beginning of Genesis is more accurate.  In essence that alternate reading is: “When G-d first established his covenant with man.”  The purpose of such a covenant would be directly related to the salvation of man.  This idea makes sense to me.

As to the discussion of man (humans) verses animals and all other forms of life.  I believe that mankind is a very different living being different from all other forms of life – yet we have fundamental and basic similarities.  I am of the mind that human spirit is different from other spirit in that we have a spirit capable of divine intelligence and thus creation (mainly the bringing to life and joining that which is spirit with that which is physical.)  It is my thinking that this is what is being communicated in the creation epoch presented in scripture and the temple.

I believe that we are co-eternal with G-d and because we possess the ability to join spirit with physical that in the pre-existent scripture references, we are called g-ds.  I speculate that as part of our training we participated in the creation of this earth and solar system under the supervision of a being we recognize as The Son who was from the beginning (as referenced above) chosen, ordained and anointed to be the G-d of our salvation.   As the G-d of our salvation and according to the hierarchy of the priesthood Christ supervises and assigns us in the same manner we are called and ordained in this mortal life.

Are the things I have presented worthy of discussion or does anyone have sufficient revelation to better instruct my understanding?

 

The Traveler

Edited January 17, 2024 by Traveler