Same 10 people (STP)

[zil2]

57 minutes ago, laronius said:

Here's an initial list though I'm sure there is more:

Not sure all that represents efficiency in my mind, but I also don't think it's worth the time to try hashing it out.

[Carborendum]

On 4/21/2025 at 10:01 PM, zil2 said:

• the kind of person who is in the scriptures daily
• the sort of person who communes with God
• the sort of person who loves to God with all their heart
• the sort of person who serves others when they can
• the sort of person who cares for their body as a temple for the Holy Ghost

Men need to find

• a woman who will love him with all her heart.
• a woman who can cook.
• a woman who will rear wonderful children.
• a woman who is good ... ahem...
• a way to make sure these women never meet.

[Carborendum]

On 4/21/2025 at 7:19 PM, zil2 said:

• Never volunteer
• Always volunteer
• Volunteer if they believe no one else can / will step up instead of them

I have thought that I was in the third category.  But after pondering this thread, I believe I'm in a different category.

I will try to volunteer, but things get in the way.  

e.g.: Church cleanup assignments. Some interesting things happened.

• They didn't expect me, so they sent me home since all the assignments were taken care of.
• I arrive only to find no one has a key to the doors.
• I arrive only to find that we're out of most of the regular cleaning supplies.  I tell them that I can go to the store and get some for the week.  They agree.  When I get back from the store, everyone is gone and the building is locked.
• I arrive and find out that there was a major water main that had burst and was flooding a certain area of town.  We have no water at the building.

I really am cursed in this regard.

[Vort]

18 hours ago, LDSGator said:

When asked how many people work at the Vatican, Pope John XXIII said “Eh, about half of them.” 

For some reason, this reminded me of an incident with my third son maybe fifteen years ago. We were reading as a family in Matthew 7, and he read v. 16: "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" But instead of reading the question as two independent rhetorical questions, my son with his vocal inflections read it as a choice: Do men gather grapes of thorns, or do they gather figs of thistles instead? I burst out laughing, and still chuckle to myself when I think about it.

[zil2]

56 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I have thought that I was in the third category.  But after pondering this thread, I believe I'm in a different category.

I will try to volunteer, but things get in the way.  

e.g.: Church cleanup assignments. Some interesting things happened.

• They didn't expect me, so they sent me home since all the assignments were taken care of.
• I arrive only to find no one has a key to the doors.
• I arrive only to find that we're out of most of the regular cleaning supplies.  I tell them that I can go to the store and get some for the week.  They agree.  When I get back from the store, everyone is gone and the building is locked.
• I arrive and find out that there was a major water main that had burst and was flooding a certain area of town.  We have no water at the building.

I really am cursed in this regard.

An introvert would say this is proof of God's mercy and kindness and go home celebrating.  (It's all about perspective. )

[Carborendum]

50 minutes ago, zil2 said:

An introvert would say this is proof of God's mercy and kindness and go home celebrating.  (It's all about perspective. )

I'm not an introvert.

I don't understand how "not being allowed to do something good" is a kindess.

[zil2]

50 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'm not an introvert.

I didn't mean to suggest you were.

50 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I don't understand how "not being allowed to do something good" is a kindess.

That's because you're not an introvert.

I am partly joking here, but also very serious about how an introvert would respond to the events you described.  An introvert might like you and even look forward to the time you planned to get together, but then something comes up on your end and you call the introvert and say, "Sorry, I have to postpone."  The introvert will make sympathetic noises, express concern for whatever came up, say they're disappointed, but as soon as you hang up the phone, they'll sigh in relief.  Their feelings and words will be sincere, but they'll still be relieved at not having to get together (most of the time, and assuming they're more than just mildly introverted).

[Vort]

On 4/23/2025 at 9:20 AM, zil2 said:

I didn't mean to suggest you were.

That's because you're not an introvert.

I am partly joking here, but also very serious about how an introvert would respond to the events you described.  An introvert might like you and even look forward to the time you planned to get together, but then something comes up on your end and you call the introvert and say, "Sorry, I have to postpone."  The introvert will make sympathetic noises, express concern for whatever came up, say they're disappointed, but as soon as you hang up the phone, they'll sigh in relief.  Their feelings and words will be sincere, but they'll still be relieved at not having to get together (most of the time, and assuming they're more than just mildly introverted).

I am an extrovert with pronounced introvert tendencies. No, that is backward. I am an introvert with sincere predilections toward extrovertedness. I like many people and enjoy my sociality with them, because it enriches my life. This discussion list is a minor example of exactly that. But interacting with people comes with a cost, and I admit that when I'm not required to pay the cost of personal interaction, a part of me is often relieved not to have to stomach up to the encounter.

Rationally, I realize that such interactions usually make my life better in a long view, and often even in the immediate view, but it's taxing to have such interactions. It's not so much that I have to put on a front, but almost the opposite: I cannot just go about my routine or follow my desired pursuits, but instead I have to concentrate on being honest and authentic while simultaneously not offending people or coming across as a fool. Many people thrive on such social exposure; my youngest son is so much an extrovert that, if I were married to someone else instead of my actual wife, I might wonder if there was a milkman wandering around my neighborhood. Those of us who tend toward introvertedness, even mildly, are not necessarily excited at that prospect, even when we desire it.

tl;dr—I agree with zil.

[zil2]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I am an introvert with sincere predilections toward extrovertedness.

I don't believe this is possible.  An introvert is not someone who dislikes people, or prefers to be alone, or is shy, or is socially awkward, or is anti-social.  (Although such things are often a part of introverts, they're not inherent.  Rather, they're present because the introvert grew up without knowing what they were or how to manage their introversion - or worse because no one around them knew the cause of their reactions to over-stimulation and treated them as if they were purposely misbehaving.)

Introversion and extroversion aren't preferences or choices, they are inbuilt personality types that can be controlled and pushed beyond their limits to a degree, but we're stuck with them for life.

That said, introverts sometimes "act like extroverts" either to function in a world more designed for extroverts, or because they are doing something they love / are excited about. But this "state" has a "limited duration" (and a price).  ("Act like extroverts" is in quotes because that's not really what's happening, it's just what it looks like, mostly because society at large still seems to think these are choices / behaviors, not inbuilt energy charging/expending methods and default mental stimulation levels. If someone wishes, I can expound.)

So if "predilections toward extrovertedness" just means that you enjoy being around / interacting with people, that's not "predilections toward extrovertedness" - that's just enjoying being around / interacting with people.

1 hour ago, Vort said:

But interacting with people comes with a cost, ...

...it's taxing to have such interactions.

This is introversion. Interacting with humans is draining, while at the same time sending an introvert's brain into overdrive.  It takes hours for the brain to "come down" to normal function (which is an extrovert's overdrive), and more hours to "recharge" before being ready for more human interaction.

Extroverts find interacting with others energizing, and time alone draining. They need others in order to reach optimal mental stimulation, and quickly get bored or depressed when in isolation.

FWIW.