Heavenly Father

[Deeper]

When you pray to Heavenly Father, do you refer to Adam? I am not sure and I just want to know. So, please don't think I am going to try and "Disprove" you. I only want to know what you guys believe.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Do you mean am I praying to Adam? No. Adam was Michael in the pre-existence and is a son of Heavenly Father. Adam is the father of all mankind in the sense that he was the first human and we are all descended from him but he is not our Heavenly Father.

[Moksha]

No. The term Heavenly Father is synonymous with God.

[SanctitasDeo]

I am sure Adam was a pretty good guy, but I have never referred to, or understood Adam to be referred to, when I said or heard the names Heavenly Father, Lord, God, Elohim, Jehovah, or any other nomen distinguishing the Most High.

[skalenfehl]

It has never occurred to me to pray to Adam. As those above me have mentioned, Heavenly Father is God in heaven.

[Dale]

I am still trying to understand the Adam God idea. I know Brigham Young believed Adam was under Eloheim and Jehovah. His 1852 sermon is clear on that point. In ancient times kings would have agents. So when you were knealing before the agent you were knealing before the absent king. So any prayers to Eloheim involving the 2nd or 3rd God would give glory to Eloheim.

He felt Adam shared the title of only God with Eloheim. But he felt the title of only God was more figurative as it was not applied to just one exclusive God. Isa.43:10 uses exclusiveness of God in that way. The New Testament expanded on the idea of one God to include one God the Father, and one Lord Jesus.(1 Cor.8) So no God is formed before or after the persons of God. If the person's are explained in the Trinitarian sense then they arn't three modern persons, or Gods. If they are aware of themselves like three men then they are Gods not God. Unless you equivoquate on Jesus Deity so he is a God, but not with God two Gods they are two Gods.

So i think Brigham Young felt if we can have two Gods sharing the title of God why not another? Because if the 2nd person of the Trinity or 2nd God in the Godhead pretends to be the Father whats to prevent another person to represent himself as heavenly Father? Eloheim can have multiple Gods representing his exclusiveness as God if he wanted.

The only thing preventing Adam from being called God with God is the existence of only one top God. If Jesus becomes a 2nd top God under Heavenly Father then God's exclusiveness as God is non-existent in the mono-theistic sense. Without absolute mono-theism you can have 4 Gods in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit would be in the Godhead along with Eloheim, Jehovah, and Michael.(Adam) Such a 2nd God to the top God would be an abandonment of Jewish mono-theism as wrong.

He felt God revealed to him the idea.

-----------

I am a member of the Community of Christ/RLDS which rejects Adam God. We also teach God is exclusively God. But no LDS prays to Adam as Eloheim. Brigham Young said in a sermon he could not get his people to accept the idea. So at most it was a speculative idea present in his sermons that never changed Mormon Doctrine. Nothing in Deut. 13:1-5 prevents prophet from later erring about God if thats what he did. But he erred less than the writers of the creeds if the persons of God are as smart as three Gods not just as smart as one God.

[ztodd]

Interesting theory Dale.

Deeper, just to clarify, it is not in the doctrine of the church that Adam is part of the Godhead. The doctrine of the church is that the Godhead consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and that Adam is a separate individual who is a child of God the Father just as we are.

[Deeper]

oh ok, thanks guys :)

[a-train]

Deeper, what you have touched on is just a common misconception fueled by a small group of anti-mormons and an even smaller group of mormons who promote the idea that Adam and Heavenly Father are the same Being. A gigantic assortment of quotes and texts are employed in the efforts of these to give vindication for their assertions. A close examination of these texts and sermons will demonstrate that their conclusion is only possible with a lot of additional philosophy. The notion is totally false and has always been repudiated and disavowed by LDS Church leadership, regardless of the assertions otherwise.

-a-train

[Elgama]

This is purely my way of seeing things - its not really LDS but not in conflict with doctrine either - many characters/personages/beings make up God/Godhead, that is responsible for the universe/s. Heavenly Father is Our God the one we worship, and I pray too, but there is no reason why Adam like Jesus couldn't be one of the other personages that make up God

Not sure if that make sense lol and could be as completely barking as me as a child believing we were in God's Stomach (I knew he was everywhere but it was the only way I could understand that happening)

-Charley

[crytsprospect]

I kinda get what your saying but kinda don't I will mull it over tonight when i can't sleep. E you are great and I appreciate your keen mind and sweet spirit .

As always peace and enlightenment

[Snow]

When you pray to Heavenly Father, do you refer to Adam? I am not sure and I just want to know. So, please don't think I am going to try and "Disprove" you. I only want to know what you guys believe.

Can you spell disingenuous? I bet you can.

[crytsprospect]

can you understand the term RUDE Snow.

[Elgama]

I kinda get what your saying but kinda don't I will mull it over tonight when i can't sleep. E you are great and I appreciate your keen mind and sweet spirit .

As always peace and enlightenment

as Latter Day Saints we already muddy the water with the idea that there maybe a Heavenly Mother, which already adds a potential 4th member of the Godhead. So it is possible that there are more we don't know as.

-Charley

[Snow]

can you understand the term RUDE Snow.

You mean when someone like you uses unpleasant and condemnatory language?

Sure I understand.

[Francine]

as Latter Day Saints we already muddy the water with the idea that there maybe a Heavenly Mother, which already adds a potential 4th member of the Godhead.

Hillary likes to put, in essence, "Presidential Mother" on her resume, but just being married to a powerful man doesn't make you equally as powerful.

[Elgama]

Hillary likes to put, in essence, "Presidential Mother" on her resume, but just being married to a powerful man doesn't make you equally as powerful.

well it is not even doctrinal she exists so its supposition either way. As I understand I maybe different to my husband but just as powerful. If I am going to be stunted reaching my full potential I may as well give up and tell my daughter there is no point.

-Charley

[crytsprospect]

Snow I am sorry you are so puffed up that you don't get it. Your comment seemed out of line and so I commented on that .

Be kind to one another

[Snow]

Snow I am sorry you are so puffed up that you don't get it. Your comment seemed out of line and so I commented on that .

Be kind to one another

And your comment calling me rude is perfectly acceptable?

You'd have more credibility if your actions corresponded to your preaching (be kind).

The poster in question asked if we refer to Adam when we pray to God. Can that be a real question born out of a desire to know?

I think not. No Mormon prays or refers to Adam. We don't think it, we don't teach it. It pertains to an obscure teaching of interpretation of an LDS authority over 150 years ago. You don't run across such an esoteric belief by accident. To hear of it you'd have to be studying. If one studied Mormonism at all, one would know that we worship God, in the name of Jesus Christ.

Or, let's say that you weren't studying. You just happened across some deceitful, evangelical hate website attacking The Church of Jesus Christ and that's where you saw the idea. Would any reasonable adult believe such an immoral website?

I suppose that it's possible the question was in earnest but the likelihood of it is so remote that my comment seems apropos.

[ztodd]

...The poster in question asked if we refer to Adam when we pray to God. Can that be a real question born out of a desire to know?

I think not. No Mormon prays or refers to Adam. We don't think it, we don't teach it. It pertains to an obscure teaching of interpretation of an LDS authority over 150 years ago. You don't run across such an esoteric belief by accident. To hear of it you'd have to be studying. If one studied Mormonism at all, one would know that we worship God, in the name of Jesus Christ.

Or, let's say that you weren't studying. You just happened across some deceitful, evangelical hate website attacking The Church of Jesus Christ and that's where you saw the idea. Would any reasonable adult believe such an immoral website?

I suppose that it's possible the question was in earnest but the likelihood of it is so remote that my comment seems apropos.

I used to think like you Snow not too long ago, but I've changed my outlook a little bit. While it seems obvious to us that people shouldn't just believe whatever they hear about us, others don't realize that there are so many out there who are just trying to attack us. They innocently trust that whoever they heard it from might have been sincere it promoting our true beliefs. We shouldn't get angry when they come to us to ask if it's true- we should be glad that they didn't just believe the false accusations but they came to ask us.

I do still kind of have a pet peeve that some people will not bother to try a search in a forum before they post a question that has already been discussed a thousand times. I don't know if that's the case here or not though.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I prefer that people feel they can ask and receive an honest answer rather than be afraid to ask and go away not sure of what we do believe.