All Please Read Read This.

[Guest Cheezasaurus/2ex]

I've spent less than 10 minutes in this forum and i already am dissapointed with the amount of people who come here to bash on our holy religion. When they aren't bashing they are discouraging others from looking into the church and incouraging those who are having thoughts of leaving.

Those of you who are members "stand ye in holy places" (D&C 87:8)

Think if this is some place you should really be spending your time. Do you feel the spirit when someone else is passively or openly attacking what you have come to love.

Those of you who are just having a little trouble with your testimony as i am.

Think if that hearing biased opinions of people who are bent on bringing this church down as alma the younger once did (Mosiah 27:8-20) should really be the deciding factor in your decision of whether you will stay in the church. Go to those who will really hear you out. Go to your bishop. Go to faithful freinds. Go to your seminary teacher. Go to your toung men or womens leader. They will really try and help you through your struggles.

Those of you who are trying to discourage others from the church, I can only ask you why?

If you think the church is false then thats fine. If you think its your duty in life to keep others from a church that is based on love service and freedom then I ask you that you please stop or at least do it in a manner that doesn't involve putting others and their beliefs down.

I would like to sign out by sharing with you my testimony,

I believe that God the father and his son Jesus Christ live and love each one of us.

I believe that this is the true restored church that began so many years ago.

I believe that Joseph Smith was one of Gods choice childeren and was a holy prophet.

I believe that the Bible and the Book of mormon are the path back to our Father in Heaven.

I believe in the plan of salvation and in reality it is the plan of happiness.

In the name of Jesus Christ Amen.

(I say "I believe" instead of "I know" because I haven't gained a perfect knowlege of our Fathers teachings. Its ok just to believe, you dont have to know right away.)

Signing out,

Austen (Cheezasaurus/2ex)

[Nicodemus]

I am doing no such thing. However, if there is a problem, and we're on the topic, and I would like to know the answer, is it not fair for me to ask? Or should I sneak around in PM's to ask the question so as to not deter any other potential converts? I will be open and cordial when we are discussing something.

A reason why is because, if they feel your church is genuinely very far off base, and on in their religion is thinking of converting, they may geniunely care about making sure that they are in what they believe is full fellowship with God. They may act as they do because they care.

As for me, I do not know whether I should convert or not. I've prayed about the BOM with no answer for almost a month now, sincerely seeking. The posters of nonmembers is greatly appreciated here- it ensures that I receive more direct and detailed information from the LDS by reading the discussion than I would if I just asked questions.

[Lindy]

Cheezasaurus/2ex~

Let me tell you..This board can be a great addition to your soul searching...if you can see others views and opinions in a POSITIVE light. But if you are only going to come to this board and read a few of the negative posts...then that is the opinion you are going to form of it.

This religious debate of "your's, mine, and ours" has been going on for awhile now...and my consensus is (and I hope that others agree) that those non-lds and the ex-lds and even the anti-lds NEED to stay to help keep this board up and running.

There is something written somewhere that says something like.... you cannot know the sweet without tasting the sour, that you cannot experience happiness if you do not have sorrow, that you cannot know love if you haven't seen the hatred.

(something along those lines)

You don't need to read the negative posts my dear, just concentrate on what will help you in your struggles....there are some great thinkers on this board...who will give you some very intelligent and well thought out answers to questions you may have. Board members are scattered thoughout the nation (many with families)..so not everyone is on at the same time, and you may have to wait patiently for some to answer.

And I'll tell you another thing... having trouble with your testimony may be the reason you were led to this board, and not to another one where you wouldn't have the chance to experience opposition to what you believe. Sometimes it is because of the opposition that our testimonies become stronger...use the wisdom of those on this board to your advantage, look up the scriptures, study them, think about the things which are given to you as the truth as we know it.

If you don't feel your testimony becoming stronger with the extra studies, reading, pondering and praying...then leave the board and go to one of the many sugar and spice boards where opposition is not a factor.

My two cents....thanks for the patience.

[Guest Starsky]

Well stated Lindy!

I can't see a testimony being of any value unless tested...

I can't see virtue really being a virtue without being tested....

Until they are tested, they are nothing but a philosophy, a mind set....a desire for it to be so....

but once they are tested...they become power....they become the railings on the path...the iron rod...

Until you take the challenge....you really haven't any right to claim the prize.....

[Faerie]

going to a message board to find a testimony is silly and pointless. if you already HAVE a testimony, you may find uplifting messages and a spiritual boost, but you will not FIND your testimony here or on any other board.

my husband read the BOM for 6 months, he prayed for 6 months, he attended church for 6 months...the Lord does not always answer our prayers immediately, nor should he...it is only when WE are ready for His answer does it come. this applies to anything in life, not just testimonies...

my advice is this: turn off your computer and invest a little more time in prayer and fasting. you will find your answer one day, but not on this board...

[Guest lt]

The only people here encouraging people to leave as you stated are nonmembers or some that are no longer members. The members here always wish people the best of luck and stay in contact with those who need help, you cannot make someone hear your side, but you can lend them an ear and be there for them when they need it.

Laureltree

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by LaurelTree@Jun 7 2004, 03:31 PM

The only people here encouraging people to leave as you stated are nonmembers or some that are no longer members. The members here always wish people the best of luck and stay in contact with those who need help, you cannot make someone hear your side, but you can lend them an ear and be there for them when they need it.

Laureltree

Glad to see you back Laurel...I really missed you...

[shanstress70]

Just curious... why don't you guys ban people who post negative things about the church? There are plenty of pro-LDS sites, so you wouldn't be the first to do it. It would be completely understandable.

I'm trying to make the point that you must enjoy some debating and seeing the other side. Maybe it does strengthen your testimony. If that wasn't true, you wouldn't come here. Or you would change the rules.

LT, I may be missing some posts, but I don't recall seeing any posts where non-members are trying to get others to leave the church. Is that what you think I'm doing when I say I don't agree with you?

I'm TRULY not trying to be nasty - just trying to understand.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 8 2004, 04:32 AM

Just curious... why don't you guys ban people who post negative things about the church? There are plenty of pro-LDS sites, so you wouldn't be the first to do it. It would be completely understandable.

I'm trying to make the point that you must enjoy some debating and seeing the other side. Maybe it does strengthen your testimony. If that wasn't true, you wouldn't come here. Or you would change the rules.

LT, I may be missing some posts, but I don't recall seeing any posts where non-members are trying to get others to leave the church. Is that what you think I'm doing when I say I don't agree with you?

I'm TRULY not trying to be nasty - just trying to understand.

There is a thin line when it comes to the difference between debating (which is encouraged) and bashing (which is not).

There is no reason to ever have to bash because debating is a much more effective means of communication.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jun 8 2004, 06:42 AM

There is a thin line when it comes to the difference between debating (which is encouraged) and bashing (which is not).

There is no reason to ever have to bash because debating is a much more effective means of communication.

I understand what you mean, Jenda, but there are some who seem to get angry everytime an opposing viewpoint is expressed, no matter how nicely.

[Spencer]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 8 2004, 07:32 AM

Just curious... why don't you guys ban people who post negative things about the church? There are plenty of pro-LDS sites, so you wouldn't be the first to do it. It would be completely understandable.

I'm trying to make the point that you must enjoy some debating and seeing the other side. Maybe it does strengthen your testimony. If that wasn't true, you wouldn't come here. Or you would change the rules.

LT, I may be missing some posts, but I don't recall seeing any posts where non-members are trying to get others to leave the church. Is that what you think I'm doing when I say I don't agree with you?

I'm TRULY not trying to be nasty - just trying to understand.

Because there are those who go out of there way to make it hard for you. they find many ways to come back and hide they're identity. get sick of playing the game.

[shanstress70]

But you could just ban them when they make their first negative comment. If they come back as someone else, ban them again. There is a site that I used to go to when I was a member - I think it's ldswomen.com, or something like that. They will ban you if you say anything questioning their faith. And no, I didn't get banned! That was before I was questioning things. I have to admit though, it was pretty boring, even when I was a believer.

Spencer, my point is that people who come to this board must get something out of the debating that goes on. I guess in some ways it could strengthen one's testimony. If they didn't, they wouldn't come here, or the rules would be changed to not allow anything negative about the church. The non-believers on this board aren't bad. They actually offer something of value to the board. And it's not just me who thinks that, because you're all here. Do you agree?

I originally posted this because of LT saying that non-members try to get others to leave the church. Maybe some do, but I haven't seen a lot of it. I have many people in my life who are members, and I've never said the first thing to try to get them to leave, nor do I plan to.

[Jason]

Well....as for this ex-mo....I say let the WHOLE world be converted to Mormonism. Then I'll be the ONLY guy at the lake on sundays!

[Jenda]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Jun 8 2004, 05:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Jun 8 2004, 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Jun 8 2004, 06:42 AM

There is a thin line when it comes to the difference between debating (which is encouraged) and bashing (which is not).

There is no reason to ever have to bash because debating is a much more effective means of communication.

I understand what you mean, Jenda, but there are some who seem to get angry everytime an opposing viewpoint is expressed, no matter how nicely.

I understand that, Shantress. I guess that the trick comes in knowing when to post a response and when to step back and let the conversation happen without you.

Because I am not LDS, but RLDS, I disagree with a lot of things that are said, but it is counterproductive to post in all those threads. I post where my remarks would carry the most impact, and post in a non-threatening way (I think. )

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Jun 8 2004, 09:08 AM

Well....as for this ex-mo....I say let the WHOLE world be converted to Mormonism. Then I'll be the ONLY guy at the lake on sundays!

[Spencer]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 8 2004, 09:15 AM

But you could just ban them when they make their first negative comment. If they come back as someone else, ban them again. There is a site that I used to go to when I was a member - I think it's ldswomen.com, or something like that. They will ban you if you say anything questioning their faith. And no, I didn't get banned! That was before I was questioning things. I have to admit though, it was pretty boring, even when I was a believer.

Spencer, my point is that people who come to this board must get something out of the debating that goes on. I guess in some ways it could strengthen one's testimony. If they didn't, they wouldn't come here, or the rules would be changed to not allow anything negative about the church. The non-believers on this board aren't bad. They actually offer something of value to the board. And it's not just me who thinks that, because you're all here. Do you agree?

I originally posted this because of LT saying that non-members try to get others to leave the church. Maybe some do, but I haven't seen a lot of it. I have many people in my life who are members, and I've never said the first thing to try to get them to leave, nor do I plan to.

the thing is, its not obvious that its the same person when they come back, you really have to take time and energy to research it. and im just tired of it.

[shanstress70]

So do you think that people who aren't LDS shouldn't come to this board? Honestly. Because if there are people other than LDS here, there will always be negative comments made about the church. That's just human nature to disagree with other religions. Even if I was still LDS, I would think it would get boring if there were no other viewpoints.

I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across. Basically, if one person from this board (mod or not) asks me to leave, I will gladly do so. REALLY! (I know I've said I'm leaving before, but if someone from here asked me to, I would never come back.)

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Jun 8 2004, 05:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Jun 8 2004, 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Jun 8 2004, 06:42 AM

There is a thin line when it comes to the difference between debating (which is encouraged) and bashing (which is not).

There is no reason to ever have to bash because debating is a much more effective means of communication.

I understand what you mean, Jenda, but there are some who seem to get angry everytime an opposing viewpoint is expressed, no matter how nicely.

I think Jenda made the distinction between bashing and debating...

Some bash...with their opposing view points....and others just offer a debate for an opposing view point.

When the opposing view point is given in a bashing way....people get emotional...as well they should...

When the opposing view point is offered as debating points....people debate....I have seen it over and over again.

We shouldn't think that just because bashing contains an opposing view point ....that people have to take it...as a debating point.

Attitude is everything....

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Jun 8 2004, 09:08 AM

Well....as for this ex-mo....I say let the WHOLE world be converted to Mormonism. Then I'll be the ONLY guy at the lake on sundays!

LOL...like that will happen!

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 8 2004, 10:43 AM

So do you think that people who aren't LDS shouldn't come to this board? Honestly. Because if there are people other than LDS here, there will always be negative comments made about the church. That's just human nature to disagree with other religions. Even if I was still LDS, I would think it would get boring if there were no other viewpoints.

I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across. Basically, if one person from this board (mod or not) asks me to leave, I will gladly do so. REALLY! (I know I've said I'm leaving before, but if someone from here asked me to, I would never come back.)

I wouldn't want you to leave. I wouldn't really want anyone from this board to leave...we all make up what this board is...

That is why so many keep coming back....

[Tr2]

Chezasaurus, or whatever that name is;

A few things:

1) Grow some thicker skin

2) What you posted was not a testimony, it was a belief statement. A testimony is something based on life experience.

3) You have insulted every person on this board, including your fellow mormons, with your ignorant post. You spent 10 whole minutes reading things on this board. I suggest that you read more and post less.

4) Each of the people on this board, who share your faith, actually have the courage to defend their religion, unlike cowards like you. Don't insult them with your arrogance.

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 8 2004, 04:32 AM

Just curious... why don't you guys ban people who post negative things about the church? There are plenty of pro-LDS sites, so you wouldn't be the first to do it. It would be completely understandable.

I'm trying to make the point that you must enjoy some debating and seeing the other side. Maybe it does strengthen your testimony. If that wasn't true, you wouldn't come here. Or you would change the rules.

LT, I may be missing some posts, but I don't recall seeing any posts where non-members are trying to get others to leave the church. Is that what you think I'm doing when I say I don't agree with you?

I'm TRULY not trying to be nasty - just trying to understand.

Its not so much trying but promoting...

Your right this is an lds site and when heather seperates them things will greatly change

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by LaurelTree@Jun 8 2004, 01:34 PM

Your right this is an lds site and when heather seperates them things will greatly change

Hi LT. Hope you are doing well.

What do you mean by separating them? The last I heard, she was looking to sell it. What's the new news?

Would you like to see all but LDS people gone from this board?

You probably already know about this board, but if not, I'd like to let you know about it (and all the other ladies here). It's lds-women.com. I really do think you'd like it. They don't allow anything negative to be said about the church. Don't worry - I used to post there, but I stopped a long time ago. There are some really nice ladies on that board.

[Faerie]

lds-women.com is my site, that i've tried to get up and running as a nice place for LDS women and Christian women to reside and get to know each other..all are welcome as long as the stuff that happens on this board doesn't carry over...

shanstress you are always welcome there, but i understand that you may feel a bit out of place...

it's a bit boring now because no one posts, and no one promotes..i can only promote so far, so thank you shanstress for the plug :)

[Guest lt]

when heather sells this site, she is giving us another site to run