Heavenguard's got a question

[Heavenguard]

I have a lot of random questions that come up as I read along, or as I just think about stuff, and it's getting hard to keep track of them. So I thought to make a thread where I'll just ask my question of the moment, and not really have it be topical. That way I'm not making 10 threads a day, and also not carrying everyone else's off track. And since everyone seems so happy to answer questions, I didn't think anyone would mind :)

So I'll start off simple and I suppose I'll work up to bigger questions later.

How does the Mormon church (in general) view other Christian denominations? Half-there? A little misguided? Right along side? The differences don't matter, the important stuff's the same?

What is the Mormon view on Communion? Transubstantiation? Symbolic/Commemorative? Both? (Neither?)

Are there sacraments (as there are 7 Sacraments in the Roman Catholic church)?

Whatever happened to the plates after Joseph Smith had finished translating them? Are they still around?

(P.S.: Thanks for patience & taking time to answer.)

[tubaloth]

How does the Mormon church (in general) view other Christian denominations? Half-there? A little misguided? Right along side? The differences don't matter, the important stuff's the same?

Probably close to something like, a little misguided. The LDS church realized that even though teachings might not be 100% correct, we do realize people are doing the best they can with the light and knowledge they have. Even if we believe people only have 5% (my number) of the truth, and they follow that the best they can, then we have nothing wrong with that. Its when people have 5% and still don’t follow it.

What is the Mormon view on Communion? Transubstantiation? Symbolic/Commemorative? Both? (Neither?)

The process of the sacrament is symbolic. Everything from the way we lay the cloth over the bread (to show Christ body) to the breaking of the bread. To renewing our covenants and put off the old life and taking the new. Its all Symbolic of the Savior and what he did for us.

Are there sacraments (as there are 7 Sacraments in the Roman Catholic church)?

I Have no idea what that is, so I assume no.

Whatever happened to the plates after Joseph Smith had finished translating them? Are they still around?

Nope, after Joseph Smith finished the translation, Moroni came and got them. Even when Joseph Smith showed the plates to the three witnesses is was Moroni that brought them to this meeting. For the 8 witnesses they were given back to Joseph Smith for that purpose, but was returned to Moroni.

[Flyonthewall]

I have a lot of random questions that come up as I read along, or as I just think about stuff, and it's getting hard to keep track of them. So I thought to make a thread where I'll just ask my question of the moment, and not really have it be topical. That way I'm not making threads a day, and also not carrying everyone else's off track. And since everyone seems so happy to answer questions, I didn't think anyone would mind :)

I'll try to answer what I can.

So I'll start off simple and I suppose I'll work up to bigger questions later.

How does the Mormon church (in general) view other Christian denominations? Half-there? A little misguided? Right along side? The differences don't matter, the important stuff's the same?

We believe that all churches have a measure of truth to them, but not the fullness of the truth. This is because after the Apostles all died, there were no prophets left to maintain the Word of G_d, and, as in the game "telephone", the original message gets altered, just a little at first, but the further away from the source, more alterations are made.

What is the Mormon view on Communion? Transubstantiation? Symbolic/Commemorative? Both? (Neither?)

I'm not sure, not too familiar with the terms in question.

Are there sacraments (as there are 7 Sacraments in the Roman Catholic church)?

I'm not familiar with the 7 Sacraments of the RCC, so I can't say if they are similar, but we do have a Sacrament that we partake of each Sunday. It is in rememberance of the body and blood of the Savior that was shed for us.

Whatever happened to the plates after Joseph Smith had finished translating them? Are they still around?

The plates were taken back by the angel Moroni.

(P.S.: Thanks for patience & taking time to answer.)

Sorry I couldn't give more complete answers, but it's a start, and I'm sure others will fill in the blanks.

[skalenfehl]

The church's official view of other religions can be found among our Articles of Faith

Article of Faith #11:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Every Sunday we attend Sacrament meeting, where we partake of bread and water (wine not used), which we do in the remembrance of Christ's ultimate sacrifice, as his disciples did at the last supper. Through this ordinance we renew the covenants that we made when we were baptized members of the church, namely to take upon ourselves the name of Christ, follow Him and obey his commandments.

While we stumble in life and sin, if we repent sincerely and try our best, renewing those covenants enable us to continue in life so that the Holy Spirit accompanies us according to our faithfulness. That is what the sacrament means to us and how we partake of it.

As mentioned above, the gold plates were taken back by Moroni, who was the last prophet in the Book of Mormon. As a resurrected person he visited with Joseph several times so that Joseph could be ready to take the plates, translate them, show them to the three witnesses and eight further witnesses so that they could testify to the world that they did see and hold the plates. Afterwards Moroni took them back unto the Lord.

I'm not sure about the other questions, though.

[a-train]

How does the Mormon church (in general) view other Christian denominations? Half-there? A little misguided? Right along side? The differences don't matter, the important stuff's the same?

'those professors [are] all corrupt;...“they draw near to [the LORD] with their lips, but their hearts are far from [Him], they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.' The LDS believe that many plain and precious points of the Gospel of Jesus Christ were lost since the primitive Christian Church. This loss necessitated a restoration. The calling of Joseph Smith was the work of God in the commencing of a new dispensation to restore the lost truths. The Book of Mormon functions to restore many of these things. Additionally, many direct revelations were given to Joseph Smith and are contained in the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church. As a restored Church, the LDS believe the LDS Church to be the only true and living Church upon the face of the earth.

What is the Mormon view on Communion? Transubstantiation? Symbolic/Commemorative? Both? (Neither?)

Transubstantiation is rejected as false, the ordinace is sacred and symbolic and very commemorative.

Are there sacraments (as there are 7 Sacraments in the Roman Catholic church)?

There are saving ordinances rather than sacraments. There are also unessential ordinances.

Baptism is an essential saving ordinance performed only by the proper preisthood authority.

Confirmation is also an essential saving ordinance which must be performed by the appropriate priesthood authority. And, in it's performance the gift of the Holy Ghost is bestowed.

The Eucharist is known to LDS as 'the sacrament', it is the only ordinance referred to as 'the sacrament'. It is not considered essential for salvation, but it is the renewal of the baptismal covenant. It is administered by priesthood authority.

Matrimony is conducted in the temple and is referred to as 'sealing'. It is not 'till death do you part', but the couple is sealed for all of time and eternity. The ordinance is essential for exaltation in the presence of God. Many other temple ordinances are prerequisite for a temple sealing.

Repentance is an essential principle to be practiced throughout the Mormon's life, it is not an ordinance performed by a priesthood holder nor a performance akin to a sacrament, but it is more of a life-long labor. It is a precept. Confession to a priesthood holder is essential when transgression is in violation of covenants made through priesthood ordinances.

Holy Orders are referred to simply as 'ordinations' to the Priesthood. The Priesthood is not the body of persons in authority, but the authority which they hold itself. An ordination is performed by those in authority, by revelation, and by the laying on of hands. The ordination is essential for salvation for men only. Women do not require, nor do they receive any ordination to the priesthood, they enter into the highest order of the priesthood with their husband in their temple sealing. Again, a man must be pre-ordained to the priesthood to be so sealed.

Extreme Unction is referred to as a 'blessing'. Two priesthood holders will conduct the performance. One will anoint the head of the afflicted with pre-consecrated oil and by the laying on of hands anoint them. The other will then 'seal the anointing' with the pronouncement of the blessing. Blessings of comfort and counsel are also given as needed without benefit of any anointing, typically by the patriarchs of families. None of such blessings are essential for salvation, but are the enjoyed blessings of the availability of priesthood authority in the home.

Something that must be noted also are the temple ordinances. In the temple, washings, anointings, and other ordinances are performed in a fashion much similar to those of the ancient temples. These ordinances are only to be performed after one has entered the covenant of baptism and confirmation. The temple ordinances are essential for salvation.

Noteworthy also, is that all essential priesthood ordinances are made available to the deceased who passed without such ordinances available within mortality by virtue of vicarious proxy in the temple. There, LDS members perform these ordinances in behalf of their ancestors. Baptisms, Confirmations, Ordinations, Washings, Anointings, Sealings, and so forth are all performed by the living standing as proxy for the deceased. It is the belief and doctrine of the Church that all such ordinances will vicariously be made available before the final judgment to all members of mankind who had not these ordinances conferred upon them within the days of their mortality.

Whatever happened to the plates after Joseph Smith had finished translating them? Are they still around?

The plates are in the care and protection of an angel named Moroni. Not all of them have been translated and the contents are therefore unknown at this time. LDS look forward to the further availability of those writings at some future time.

-a-train

[WillowTheWhisp]

It might be worth noting that Celibacy which is regarded as essential for the priest within the Catholic church is not a requirement in the LDS church, in fact quite the opposite. It is our doctrine that only those married and sealed for time and eternity in the temple can pass on to the highest order of the Celestial Kingdom. However, that does not mean that unmarried men cannot hold the priesthood but they are held back from some callings within the church.

[Heavenguard]

Thanks for the replies :) So long as you keep answerin' em, I'll just keep askin :)

In the OT, God commanded that everyone need to sacrifice annually (as well as many other specific outlined occasions) at the temple. Considering that the migrations occurred long before Jesus' time (and the end of the need for offering sacrifices), how did the migrated peoples deal with that?

Are the migrated peoples considered to be the fathers of all the Native Americans, or just some?

How widely held in the LDS church is the notion that Ezekiel's references to Ephraim and Judah in his prophecies meant the people who'd crossed the ocean, and the Israelites? (I read a book, but I don't know how much of it is just his opinion, and how much of it falls as widely held view.)

[tubaloth]

Considering that the migrations occurred long before Jesus' time (and the end of the need for offering sacrifices), how did the migrated peoples deal with that?

I’m guessing you are talking about Nephi and Lehi and how they a crossed the ocean?

We don’t know how they did any of that (if they did) on the ship. But we do know of times when they did offer sacrifices, but they talked more about what it meant then what they did.

Are the migrated peoples considered to be the fathers of all the Native Americans, or just some?

Probably Some is a better word for it. We know they were the people that were left here, and lived in the North/South America. We don’t know if anybody else came over here after the Nephiets were destroyed. We just believe that’s how so many Indians where here.

Ezekiel's references to Ephraim and Judah in his prophecies meant the people who'd crossed the ocean, and the Israelites?

I guess you mean Ezekiel 37:16-17? About the two sticks? We believe this completely.

Even in the book of mormon it talks about the same thing.

(2 Nephi 3:12.)

12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

God always knew that Bible and Book of Mormon would come together.

[Doctor Steuss]

How does the Mormon church (in general) view other Christian denominations? Half-there? A little misguided? Right along side? The differences don't matter, the important stuff's the same?

"Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, &c,, any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true “Mormons.”"

(History of the Church, 5:517)

[Heavenguard]

Were the people of Israel aware of the migrations / aware of what happened to them / where the migrated peoples went (and vice versa)?

[rameumptom]

Were the people of Israel aware of the migrations / aware of what happened to them / where the migrated peoples went (and vice versa)?

In the Apocrypha are the books of Esdras. Esdras describes those that were carried off to Assyria (ca 721 BC). These Israelites gathered together and determined to go where no one would bother them in their worship. Esdras tracked them for about a year and then lost them. Their trek included a miracle, as a river dried up so they could cross over. Today, these are known as the Lost Tribes of Israel.

Others are believed to have migrated away at other times, or carried off. Not all the Israelites returned from Babylon or Egypt after they were carried off by the Babylonians, for example.

With the exception of knowing many had departed, and that there are prophecies of the return of the lost tribes, no one knows for certain where they all are. The Book of Mormon shares one small branch of Joseph and Judah that escaped around 600BC and came to a small area in the Americas, probably Mesoamerica.

Jesus told the Jews "Other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring." Later, to the Nephites, Jesus told him that they were among the other sheep, which the Lord had taught to the Jews. They did not understand that Jesus was referring to the Lost of Israel, thinking instead of the Gentiles. But Jesus explained that while the Gentiles would hear his voice, he would not go directly to them as a people, as he did the Jews and Nephites.

[a-train]

In the OT, God commanded that everyone need to sacrifice annually (as well as many other specific outlined occasions) at the temple. Considering that the migrations occurred long before Jesus' time (and the end of the need for offering sacrifices), how did the migrated peoples deal with that?

The Book of Mormon mainly reports of only a single such group: the Lehites (they were not only descendents of Lehi himself, it was a multi-family group). They spent several years in the wilderness of what is presumed to have been the Sinai peninsula until their coming to the Americas. Within that period they offered sacrifices and burnt offerings of thanks (1 Nephi 5:9, 1 Nephi 7:22).

Upon arrival in the Americas, they constructed a temple and offered sacrifice and burnt offerings there (Mosiah 2). This worship continued until the coming of Christ to the people of the Americas after His resurrection, at which point He instructed them to discontinue the practice and offer their own broken hearts and contrite spirits as offerings (3 Nephi 9:19-20).

Mormon leaves us a lot of unanswered questions with respect to pre-Christian American sacrifices. Details of proceedings upon the Day of Atonement are not included in the Book of Mormon.

It should be understood that to this day, religious Jews have differing opinions on how to avail themselves of the blessings of the temple although there is not one on the temple mount. Reformed Jews refer to synagogues as 'temple' and many synagogues contain features equivilant to the temple. Orthodox Jews believe that study and prayer are acceptable to God in the stead of sacrifices and that the sacrifices will one day be restored. Others do not believe they will ever be restored, but were merely part of ancient sacrifice for an ancient society in an ancient economy.

It would seem that the Lehites had a strong position of observance for the sacrifices, but they did not suffer the same politicization of the faith that the Palestinian Jews did. The addition of laws known as 'the hedge' were not so prominent if existant at all among the Lehites, nor were the arbiters of this additional code.

Are the migrated peoples considered to be the fathers of all the Native Americans, or just some?

The Book of Mormon mentions several different groups and leaves wide open the potential for more to have been present in ancient America. Further, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us any history beyond the fifth century A.D. The Americans who were extant at the time of the arrival of Columbus and the subsequent European invasion could have been only slightly related to Lehi himself. However, Nephi, the son of Lehi, saw visions of that era and considered the American's to be the seed of Lehi.

Early Mormons called Americans 'Lamanites', but this fact should not lead us to believe that they are pure descendents of Laman (son of Lehi). It would seem almost entirely impossible that in the 2400 years since the time of Laman, his descendents had not a single opportunity to marry someone of a different lineage.

How widely held in the LDS church is the notion that Ezekiel's references to Ephraim and Judah in his prophecies meant the people who'd crossed the ocean, and the Israelites? (I read a book, but I don't know how much of it is just his opinion, and how much of it falls as widely held view.)

It is an official position of the Church that Ezekiel 37 foretold the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the ultimate harmony and consensus of ideas that would and will result.

Were the people of Israel aware of the migrations / aware of what happened to them / where the migrated peoples went (and vice versa)?

The location and history of lost tribes were intentionally kept by the LORD from the knowledge of the palestinian Israelites. (3 Nephi 15:20)

-a-train

[Heavenguard]

Howdy hey, folks. I have been crazy busy the last little bit. Work + school + church stuff like you wouldn't believe. (Well, okay, maybe you would :) ) But I just though I'd steal away from the other things for a little bit.

I haven't really given much thought towards learning about LDS teaching the last few days, but a question popped into my head while I was just browsing thru another thread.

We, humanity, essentially "require" Jesus' atonement in order for us to become re-united with God, and, in the future, to become exalted ourselves, yes?

Given that God (the Father) was once a moral (and imperfect?) man himself, did he also suffer sin as we do? If this is so, does that mean he would have required his own "Jesus" and his own atonement in the way that we do now?

[mnn727]

Given that God (the Father) was once a moral (and imperfect?) man himself, did he also suffer sin as we do? If this is so, does that mean he would have required his own "Jesus" and his own atonement in the way that we do now?

Nothing has ever been revealed about what kind of mortal existance (if any) God the Father had. That he apears like a man - yes (we were created in His image) we also know that Jesus did only what He had seen the Father do (John 5:19) but other than that, all we have is speculation - and yes many people have speculated.

Jesus had a mortal experience and He was both perfect and divine - perhaps (speculation here) God the Father had a similar experience.

[a-train]

We, humanity, essentially "require" Jesus' atonement in order for us to become re-united with God, and, in the future, to become exalted ourselves, yes?

Yes. Man's reunification with God through the blood of the Lamb is the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Given that God (the Father) was once a mortal (and imperfect?) man himself, did he also suffer sin as we do? If this is so, does that mean he would have required his own "Jesus" and his own atonement in the way that we do now?

We have no indication that the Father ever transgressed or sinned. Answers to these types of questions are speculative at best and far removed from extant canonized revelation.

Having said that, I have run my mind through the many different options with the same curiousity that kills all cats. Perhaps the Father was a Sacrificial Lamb at some distant point in eternity and thus retains the Position. This would be the implication of a rigid application of John 5:19 which our friend mnn727 mentioned. The religious fiction conjurable is virtually endless, but it is outside the realm of required knowledge essential to our task at hand.

-a-train

[Heavenguard]

Fair enough. But...

... the many different options with the same curiousity that kills all cats.

Meow :3

Hehehe.

Okay, no question for today, I just wanted to see what response(s) would be here. I shall return in a a few weeks, if not a few days :) Have fun without me in the meantime ~

[lilered]

Concerning the original question.

After all, Christians everywhere espouse love for their fellowmen. Which should also include loving them no matter what their religious beliefs are. We should not be enemies, but instead should be united in worshipping God and obeying his commandments. We are all on the same journey. As mormons we simply believe we have additonal information to offer. I believe that Presiden Hinkley expressed this about as well as can be. As he states it, so should it be.

President Hinckley wrote:

…there are many good people in other churches. There is much of good in them. Your family and your prior religious traditions may have taught you many good things and established many good habits…Bring the good things with you, keep them, and use them in the Lord’s service. (Ensign, October 2006, page 5)

On another occasion President Hinckley said to non-Mormons,

To these we say in a spirit of love, bring with you all that you have of good and truth which you have received from whatever source, and come and let us see if we may add to it. (Ensign, November 2002, page 78)

[Heavenguard]

Hey guys,

Again with the busy and not really thinking about stuff. (I'll be done-done school in three days though. Yay?)

I got a visit this morning by a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses who gave me some stuff concerning (their view on) the Armageddon. I took it. I'll probably read it eventually, just because I want to know what they think and believe, much the same way I'm asking questions about Mormonism and the LDS church.

But in the mean time, I'm going to open what I assume is going to be a big can of worms and ask what's the LDS view on the end times? I've read tidbits of stuff here and there, but a general run-thru would be very nice :)

Thanks folks.

Back to the books

[rameumptom]

Hey guys,

But in the mean time, I'm going to open what I assume is going to be a big can of worms and ask what's the LDS view on the end times? I've read tidbits of stuff here and there, but a general run-thru would be very nice :)

Here's an article I wrote several years ago on Joseph Smith's Prophecy on War (D&C 87). It is still right on target as far as I see.

We see that both good and terrible things will occur as we come towards the end times. More spiritual experiences for the righteous, while tragedies will occur to help people repent, if they will. LDS prophecies on the end times include D&C 45 and 133, among others. These prophecies include the seas heaving beyond their bounds, famine, pestilences, and a lot of wars and rumors of war.

We believe that two great governments will be established prior to Christ's 2nd coming: Babylon and Zion (although they may be called something else in reality). Zion will be established by righteous peoples of many religions, with the LDS taking a major role in parts of it. Why? Because we tend to be more organized than almost any other Christian church. The hurricanes and natural disasters of recent times have shown the LDS Church more prepared and able to assist than others during critical times.

For example, 15 years ago a hurricane ransacked southern Florida, leveling large areas north of Miami. Once we knew the hurricane would hit Florida, a semi-truck loaded with initial emergency supplies left the bishop's storehouse in Atlanta for the area. They arrived in the area just as the hurricane was entering the Gulf of Mexico. While Billy Graham had a prayer event in a stadium (which was mostly empty), we had over 5000 LDS over several weekends going from house to house assisting people. Two of our stake centers (major chapels) were set up as command posts for the army, Red Cross and other organizations to use. The army said they would need 3000 chain saws, but it would take a month to get them. The Church had them there two days later.

Same thing happened with Katrina in Mississippi and Louisiana, where we had stakes (our version of archdiocese) scheduled to have about 120 or more people go down on specific weekends, so that the Church had thousands assisting every weekend for over about 2 months. We had people going down from our stake in Indianapolis, for example, about 20 from my ward alone.

This happens time and again throughout the world where there are LDS stakes.

Our leaders call upon us to be out of debt, have money saved and set aside, and have a year's supply of food stored. We will be better prepared temporally for major end time disasters than others, regardless of whether it happens in our day or a thousand years down the road. Just as the peoples went to Joseph and the Egyptians for food during the 7 years of famine, in order to survive, we may someday have the same thing occur again.

[Heavenguard]

Here's an article I wrote several years ago on Why? Because we tend to be more organized than almost any other Christian church.

Hahaha, Zing!

I agree, though, that's pretty true :)

I like the last part about preparedness. I feel like it's common sense, but nobody does it. I want to load up the car and the house with 'just in case' gear, but it's not my car, not my house ...

[MaidservantX]

This is an official moderating direction on this thread.

Heavenguard -- I love your attitude of learning.

However -- and despite your fairly logical reasoning in your original post -- it is very important that you provide a new thread and topic for each of your ideas and questions, and to post them in the correct forum (which is probably going to be either "Learn about the Mormon Church" or "LDS Discussion" -- or any forum which is appropriate to the topic).

Another alternative would be to blog each of your questions, and then people can reply by comment.

Thank you so much. I look forward to many more great, well-thought questions, Heavenguard, and your long time participation on this board!

[Heavenguard]

Whoopsie-doodle.

Sorry, will do!

So, what is this blogging you speak of? It interests me :3

... I didn't mean to continue the thread with another question, I swear it! Hahahaha