"True and Living Church"

[Dear434]

Thanks for your comments. If I may ask a question, what exactly do LDS people do or say that makes others feel we are using this statement to put them down?

Oh, I don't know . . . how about "the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth"? I mean, if I were a Baptist or Methodist or whatever Christian denomination I might interpret that to mean you look at my faith as being not true and not alive. Of course, that's by implication not explicitly said.

[Elgama]

Oh, I don't know . . . how about "the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth"? I mean, if I were a Baptist or Methodist or whatever Christian denomination I might interpret that to mean you look at my faith as being not true and not alive. Of course, that's by implication not explicitly said.

And when a Christian say I worship Satan they are of course implying that my religion is bringing me closer to God right?

-Charley

[Misshalfway]

Example:

" We are the only true church on the face of the earth!", while this is a true statement, by the very nature of the comment, infers to the "hearer" their church is wrong. What is lost is that many investigators are searching or are interested but they still hold their religion dear and at this point are not ready to hear it. It sounds judgemental on our part.

I have long thought that it shows a lack of understanding, love, kindness, and disrespect for the others persons religious belief. It would serve the missionary effort better, if they reached this conclusion on their own after first learn and build their understanding of what the restored gospel means. We need to make them feel comfortable being in our presence and let the "Spirit" work.

Sounds like you are referring to missionaries. Is that right? I used to teach those guys and we used to talk about respect for others and their deeper feelings of connection and attachment to other religions. When I was a missionary, which was a decade and some ago, we didn't even mention it until the fourth lesson with someone. We were taught to build on common beliefs. I know the methods for training missionaries are different now. I know that it is less structured. But the only other time I really brought it up with investigators was when someone would ask us about it. It wasn't the main focus of the message until lesson 4 -- lots of time to prepare someone to hear such a statement. And usually, we were pretty sure the person was seriously interested in the church at that point. Gosh, often we would go to church with our investigators and try to meet their families and listen to their religious experiences. I am sad to hear of a missionary who would use the statement in a bible battle...... although I am not surprised to hear that it happens. And at some point the missionary has to be straight-forward about their message, state what we believe and ask the person to pray about it. Maybe the offense is unavoidable. The Lord did say his word was a two edged sword. Hmmmm......

I hope that the everyday mormon isn't running amuck like a playground bully and shoving this idea in everyone's faces. I don't remember the last time I even mentioned it in my daily life. Hadn't even thought of it, til I came to this site. I do live in Utah, though. And many of my neighbors are from other faiths. And there seems to be a defensiveness almost immediately from non-members. I wonder often what exactly is causing the offense. We don't smoke and drink or sware. And sometimes act uncomfortable around those things. I wonder if we appear to be so socially different that it is hard to break in.

We had one set of neighbors that were not LDS. Many of their friends told them awful things about us. They tried hard not to believe it. We invited them to everything we did including church activities. And they often came. We did it not to convert them, but to include them. We were always having some party or some campout and we didn't want to seem closed. And frankly, we wanted them along. They were a blast. But I think over time they became offended and backed off. They became cold and reverted to their churches culture. It was sad. When we asked them, they never answered directly. But it was clear the issue was religion. In the end, I wasn't sure what we had done wrong

I ask the question, not to act oblivious to the obvious, but to understand the behavior of LDS people better from an outsiders perspective. You see, I am a little too close to see. And I don't think that I am alone. I remember one Relief Society Pres. wanted to bring her nonmember friends to church just to help us all understand better the non-lds reaction. I wish she had done it.

[a-train]

When I hear anyone claiming their religion is true and all others are false, I'm not offended. I think we should expect that. I expect Baptists to believe in the tenets of that movement and to reject those that are contrary. I am not shocked when I hear a Roman Catholic say there is only one true holy roman Church.

Muslims, Jews, Christians, Pagans, we all believe in our paradigm and reject those things that are contrary. Certainly people's paradigms change as they gain information new to them.

I do not fear for the Jew who rejects the Divinity of Jesus or the athiest who rejects the notion of God in total. I am not offended by them either. I have faith that He's got the whole world in His hands.

-a-train

[WANDERER]

I think it's far more offensive when people are selective about what they tell you.

Omitting things is practicing deception. How is that being true?

I guess it is a separation to say 'we are the one true church' and thus the response.

I am actually surprised by the Catholic claim in that it separates itself from other Christian churches and much has been done towards promoting unity...more than I would be so if the Catholic faith had maintained that position all along.

I guess that my initial response is 'surprise' to hear it from those of LDS faith : is it different from Jewish or Moslem statements in this regard...what exactly does it mean. This is a fair question. It isn't a standard belief amongst Christian churches, which is also something that sustains curiousity.

Whether you accept it or reject it then follows.

It doesn't offend my beliefs for someone to hold contrary beliefs to mine. But if I don't share that belief that may reduce my involvement as an outsider somewhat or how included I feel within an LDS community perhaps.

[lilered]

I think the question is not what we believe as LDS; but rather how we sometimes approach others who are not, or perhaps members who are inactive, and when we testify of the truthflness of the Gospel our actions (insensitivity) speak volumes in sending a different message, that turns folks off.

I have always thought that it is far better to allow the Holy Ghost do his job, whenever possible.

(2 Nephi 31:18)- He "witnesses of the Father and the Son" and reveals and teaches "the truth of all things"

(Moroni 10:5). We can receive a sure testimony of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ only by the power of the Holy Ghost. His communication to our spirit carries far more certainty than any communication we can receive through our or others natural senses.

[rameumptom]

I think it's far more offensive when people are selective about what they tell you.

Omitting things is practicing deception. How is that being true?

I guess it is a separation to say 'we are the one true church' and thus the response.

I am actually surprised by the Catholic claim in that it separates itself from other Christian churches and much has been done towards promoting unity...more than I would be so if the Catholic faith had maintained that position all along.

I guess that my initial response is 'surprise' to hear it from those of LDS faith : is it different from Jewish or Moslem statements in this regard...what exactly does it mean. This is a fair question. It isn't a standard belief amongst Christian churches, which is also something that sustains curiousity.

I think a big difference is that we consider the truths in other religions a big bonus and plus for them. We believe they will receive a level of heaven and salvation. OTOH, when another condemns a Mormon to hell, because we believe in a different God than they do, they are not offering us much hope.

[WANDERER]

My journey on this involves being a kid and hearing conflicting statements, but these are all out of the mouths of other children, possibly not doctrinal:

My SDA friends, shared that those who didn't have Sabbath on Saturday were going to hell.

My Christadelphian friend shared that wearing a hat in church was essential. I don't think hell was mentioned on that one...just God's extreme disapproval to non-hat-wearing church goers.

My Catholic friends said that deviating from Jesus's ordained church was the same thing.

My Pentecostal friends said that you couldn't have salvation without speaking in tongues.

LOL.

So I guess that left me thinking as a kid what is the truth of all that...I think that different covenants or pathways exist. I may not neccessarily want to operate under them even though I believe none of them are essential clauses to going to hell.

[Dear434]

And when a Christian say I worship Satan they are of course implying that my religion is bringing me closer to God right?

-Charley

I would say that whoever told you that was speaking from ignorance. Of course, I realize you weren't being sincere in your question.

[Elgama]

I would say that whoever told you that was speaking from ignorance. Of course, I realize you weren't being sincere in your question.

no I wasn't however I don't take offence when someone says I am worshiping Satan as I know they have no clue what they or talking about or the right to tell me anything about my personal relationship with God

I just don't understand why when someone knows they are right with God why they care what another thinks?

-Charleys

[WANDERER]

People seek answers to this question...it's normal. It invites a response. Hopefully a better one than that Elgama, that's a shocker.

[Elgama]

People seek answers to this question...it's normal. It invites a response. Hopefully a better one than that Elgama, that's a shocker.

Its what an awful lot of baptist, evangelical and pentecostal Christians have said to me over the past 16 years its the most likely response when I say that I am LDS because God wants me to be and I have no intention of placing another human before God.

-Charley

[Dear434]

Its what an awful lot of baptist, evangelical and pentecostal Christians have said to me over the past 16 years its the most likely response when I say that I am LDS because God wants me to be and I have no intention of placing another human before God.

-Charley

In what way do non-Mormon Christians place "another human before God"? Maybe that's not what you are insinuating, but it came across that way. I agree with you that we should not trust in the fallible opinions of men but rather place our faith and trust in God. But the last time I checked, God uses us (Men & Women) to communicate His message to a lost world.

[WANDERER]

My issue with it is if I convert to LDS and then walk away from it...it's a bit of a minefield in terms of salvation. Would that be a fair comment on only true churches?

[prisonchaplain]

This topic touches upon why many people are uncomfortable with discussing religion in the first place. Implicit in the "I'm right," message is that those with another faith are wrong. If my church is "full gospel," does that mean others have less than the full gospel. If my church is "Spirit-filled," does that imply that others are not? If my church is "Bible-believing," does that mean others are not? Or, that they are less so?

One of the reasons this pentecostal preacher fequents this site is that we are mostly able to discuss religious issues, including disagreements, without degenerating into such insinuations. Rather, we just discuss what we believe, and leave it to the Spirit to impress God's truth on us.

[Dear434]

My issue with it is if I convert to LDS and then walk away from it...it's a bit of a minefield in terms of salvation. Would that be a fair comment on only true churches?

Why would anyone convert to a church they were not 100% sure of? Personally, I choose to place my faith and trust in a person (Jesus the Christ) and not in a man-made organization. No matter how good the organization may be operated nor how nice the people are. Jesus Christ is in whom we must place our faith and trust in and no one else.

[WANDERER]

It seems that people do convert to a church they are 100% sure of and then change their minds. What then happens to them.

[Elgama]

In what way do non-Mormon Christians place "another human before God"? Maybe that's not what you are insinuating, but it came across that way. I agree with you that we should not trust in the fallible opinions of men but rather place our faith and trust in God. But the last time I checked, God uses us (Men & Women) to communicate His message to a lost world.

God is more than capable of communicating Himself, He can use other people but prayers are answered in a variety of ways- I believe in the Bible through revelation and the same source is why I believe in the Book of Mormon and the modern day prophets.

I have only ever said it when a discussion is based on someone telling me their faith is right and I am happy for them to believe that but my Faith is 100% right for me, its right because God says so - if the discussion then continues as to how my faith is wrong then yes that person is putting themselves before God or asking me to turn away from him. I would never tell anyone who is sure that they are where God wants them that they are wrong, however I also know I am where God wants me, and that requires me to believe it is the True and Living Church, just like I guess the other persons faith requires them to s believe that anyone not worshiping God in a certain way must be worshiping the devil. Thats fine too its their faith and where they are at on their path to eternal life.

-Charley

[Elgama]

Why would anyone convert to a church they were not 100% sure of? Personally, I choose to place my faith and trust in a person (Jesus the Christ) and not in a man-made organization. No matter how good the organization may be operated nor how nice the people are. Jesus Christ is in whom we must place our faith and trust in and no one else.

I agree with this our faith should be in God not in the Church - if that God then explains something is only a stepping stone on your path then its time to move on but its no longer a minefield for you in terms of salvation because you are still on the path God wants you to be on.

-Charley

[Misshalfway]

This was my LDS Gem today. I thought it was applicable. So I add it to the conversation.....

"We must do all that is required in moving forward the work of the

Lord in building His kingdom in the earth. We can never compromise the

doctrine which has come through revelation, but we can live and work with

others, respecting their beliefs and admiring their virtues, joining hands

in opposition to the sophistries, the quarrels, the hatred--those

perils which have been with man from the beginning."

Topic: respect

(Gordon B. Hinckley, "The Dawning of a Brighter Day," Ensign, May 2004, 84)