WillowTheWhisp Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 So how do you explain this passage? I believe it pertains to the whole Bible.It is impossible for it to refer to the whole Bible. At the time it was written there was no such thing as the whole Bible. In fact even today there is no general concensus of opinion as to what constitutes a 'whole' Bible. For instance some versions contain apocryphal books which others do not contain. The Bible we have today was compiled centuries after the Book of Revelation was written, in effect 'added' to it. It obviously refers to the Book of Revelation itself and is an admonition not to change any of the content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 anyone seen my chicken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Interesting, creates a thread that receives excellent responses and so longer wishes to discuss. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomk Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 He's behind the couch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I no longer wish to discuss this topic because I believe what I believe and no one here can change that. dropping the subject is better than arguing about it when neither side will submit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I no longer wish to discuss this topic. Sorry guys.Oh dear, my response was too late. Did the discussion end because we didn't agree with you? Surely you couldn't really have expected that we would could you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 oh, right, i see him now… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomk Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I no longer wish to discuss this topic because I believe what I believe and no one here can change that. dropping the subject is better than arguing about it when neither side will submit. We feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Good thing I didn't start a thread about why I believe in the Trinity. Not to change the subject but didn't God say in exodus that no man can see God's face or he shall surely die? Why then do people say JS saw God? And why are there so many different accounts of the first vision? Just confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomk Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Good thing I didn't start a thread about why I believe in the Trinity.Not to change the subject but didn't God say in exodus that no man can see God's face or he shall surely die? Why then do people say JS say God? And why are there so many different accounts of the first vision?Just confused... There is an answer, but I am not sure you are ready for it.The answer is -- it's true. We cannot just stroll into God's presence. We must be prepared (by Him) for the experience. That is what this verse is talking about.A portion of God's glory must come upon us. Then we are able to endure His presence. Otherwise, we would wither and die.Think of it like a fireman putting on a protective suit before entering a fire.God must prepare us similarly.It is not that we cannot see God and live. We cannot see God, unaided, and live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiancum Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Calling church members crazy and brainwashed is certainly disrespectful. So is telling another person that they are unattractive. SeraphimKona wouldn't say such distasteful, ugly and unchristian things, and then deny that he has said anything disrespectful. He doesn't seem like that kind of person to me. I will need you show me direct quotes from him for me to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Logical response Tomk. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomk Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Logical response Tomk. Thanks. You're welcome.My response comes from a place where the logic of man perishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Sorry. trying to wrap your mind around the whole Mormon religion can really be a trick. So many things to examine. And as usual I question everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Sorry. trying to wrap your mind around the whole Mormon religion can really be a trick. So many things to examine. And as usual I question everything.that's great!in fact, it's one of the things my fiancée (who is currently investigating the church) took a little while to get her head around — the missionaries positively ENCOURAGED HER TO QUESTION EVERYTHING SHE WAS TAUGHT BY THEM.but here's the thing… it was suggested that she trust in no mere mortal human being to confirm the truthfulness of all things. she was encouraged to seek confirmation ONLY from her Heavenly Father, in whom all truth may be found.Jer. 17: 5 5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I need to pray. I never have prayed about the whole religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmilingRedhead Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Good thing I didn't start a thread about why I believe in the Trinity.Not to change the subject but didn't God say in exodus that no man can see God's face or he shall surely die? Why then do people say JS saw God? And why are there so many different accounts of the first vision?Just confused...Hi KonaI haven't actually read all the different accounts myself. However, as far as I understand from the explanation I've heard is that the accounts were given to different people at different times. The accounts didn't match word for word - however they didn't contradict either.What we have to consider is that he was 14 years old at the time. I certainly wouldn't expect a young boy like that to explain an extraordinary life changing experience to various people at different times and then match it word for word each time he re-told his vision. Often, when I think about something big that has just happened to me, I tend to remember things slightly differently each time I tell someone about it. Also, depending on who I'm talking to I emphasise different things too. And I've never had anything that big like Joseph Smith's First Vision happen to me so I couldn't imagine what was going through his mind for days after the event and how he could even find any words to describe it. I believe that the official account that we as a church have is the final and most considered version and that's the one that is the most important.So I totally accept and understand why there would be different accounts... I hope you get what I was trying to say, I often find it difficult to get the right words out to explain what's in my head ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I need to pray. I never have prayed about the whole religion.i wish you peace, love and respect with this endeavour… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 To me, the single greatest point to Rev.22:18 is :'If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book..'It says nothing about God being unable to add. God can speak whenever He wants, to whomever He wants, about whatever He wants.-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 The differences in the accounts of the First Vision confirm to me that it is the truth and not a fabrication. If it were a made-up story then each account would probably be identical as it tends to be when we retell a story we have read or a fairy tale we make up for our children. But I know that if I'm trying to remember actual events and relate them to other people then sometimes I recall one aspect and sometimes I recall another and I may emphasise different points. I know I do that when I tell my own conversion story. Sometimes I dwell on the fact that I searched other churches. Sometimes I dwell on the fact that I read a lot of LDS literature. Sometimes I dwell on the fact that I studied the Bible and was confused when churches seemed to me to be teaching things which contradicted what I had read. In fact I don't think I brought in that last point when I wrote the testimony I have on here and yet I know I referred to it in a thread where someone else mentioned they were reading a lot of church books and had not become a member yet.It even happens in the Bible. If we read the account of the resurrection there is some confusion as to who actually saw the empty tomb first and who did what where when. It depends on whose account you are reading. I think it's just a human trait.Yesterday in Sunday School we were studying Jacob 5 and the Allegory of Xenos. That whole section is just so mind blowing to me and if anything needed to convince me that the Book of Mormon was true it would be that. There is no way Joseph Smith could have come up with all that himself off the top of his head. It's so deep. It makes my brain hurt every time I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 It has always been a slight musing because I am happy to take the version we have in the standard works as the one that teaches what we need to know if actually he had more than one vision its the impression I get from reading the accounts but I guess I will never know, Its like with scripture I believe whilst what we get is based on historical fact Lord has had them told in a way that allows the maximum teaching value - It is all just musings like A-Train said man has never been allowed to add to scripture however God can whenever he likes. -Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Seraphim Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Kona wouldn't say such distasteful, ugly and unchristian things, and then deny that he has said anything disrespectful. He doesn't seem like that kind of person to me. I will need you show me direct quotes from him for me to believe. http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/10275-blind-faith.htmlOK guys give me a break. I can't believe you guys think Joseph Smith was a Prophet. There is no proof. To believe he was is just plain crazy.For example if someone said he was something he wasn't and you knew it why would you believe different? Because you prayed and was told by a burning bosom that it's true? It takes more than that to confirm a truth. Keep in mind the evil one can make your bosom burn as well and he is very crafty.So explain it to me. Wow. I think the word I need to start using here is brainwashed.http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/10248-earth-hour.htmlI can't concentrate enough to read your signature as I am displeased by your avatar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 To anybody wondering I've already apologized for all of my rude comments. I don't see why they need to be discussed any futher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTheWhisp Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Kona, may I ask if you actually think we are brainwashed and if so how would you define brainwashing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Brainwashed consists of any effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person — sometimes unwelcome beliefs in conflict with the person's prior beliefs and knowledge. Top that off with believing in something without no physical proof. Everything must be questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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