The Great Apostasy

[JLFuller]

Oh, okay. But I still don't understand how this could have happened. In the bible, Jesus says "Upon this rock I shall build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Jesus built HIS church on a firm foundation, and promised that the "gates of hell" will not prevail against it. If His church dissapeared even for a short time, the gates of hell would have prevailed against it, thus making Jesus a liar.

Also... I don't think a mere seventy years after the Lord had risen to heaven, something He had made would fall apart so easily. Not when He meant it to last through the ages.

The Lord is talking about personal revelation not Peter. http://byubwmv.byu.edu/edweek/2007/ED_Week_1204_Ostler.wmv is a presentation by a BYU Professor which helps understand what it is. Our recently departed President Gordon Hinckley talked about revelation here: http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2005/apr/4/4_6_hinckley_000_apr2005.mp3. Occasionally these links are down so if you don't get it the first time try later. BYU Television | Keeping You Connected is a great place to view video files and download .mp3 files about the church's teachings.

The other thing you commented on is known as the great apostacy. Another BYU Professor talks about it here: http://byubwmv.byu.edu/sperry/2004/JWelch04.wmv. In his presentation, Dr. Welch talks about creedalsim as a part of the why the apostacy happened.

[Traveler]

Sorry. I have been busy lately. Anyways, your question: no, it isn't. But it just blows the mind that the Lord would send his son down to the earth the be persecuted and treated so terribly, if all that work would be undone in a very short time.

I suggest you become more familiar with the book of Job. If we have hope of Christ in this life only we are of men most miserable.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Oh Please talk about a load of %^*&^*&^($ As usual and typical of lds on the internet. Travaller adds absolutly nothing but personal insults. __YES by their friut you shall know them.

And you guy wonder why things digressas they do on thread

I rest my case.

The Traveler

[Elgama]

Sorry. I have been busy lately. Anyways, your question: no, it isn't. But it just blows the mind that the Lord would send his son down to the earth the be persecuted and treated so terribly, if all that work would be undone in a very short time.

for us the atonement is eternal it will never be undone - in an eternal sense even 2000 years is but a short time. And because we believe that it is possible to be taught the gospel between mortality and judgement everyone gets a fair shot because of that atonement.

Whereas the Roman Catholic and other Christian churches for many years would reject small babies that were unbaptised from graveyards

-Charley

[roman]

I rest my case.

The Traveler

Praise the LORD I certainly hope you have!

[darrel]

Isn't it the best policy here just to ignore hecklers like we do the ones at General Conference.:)

[CatholicGirl]

for us the atonement is eternal it will never be undone - in an eternal sense even 2000 years is but a short time. And because we believe that it is possible to be taught the gospel between mortality and judgement everyone gets a fair shot because of that atonement.

Whereas the Roman Catholic and other Christian churches for many years would reject small babies that were unbaptised from graveyards

-Charley

So by the atonment, I'm sure you mean the apsotasy, right? Just to clear up any confusion. Well, that's what we believe about Christ's coming.

That is an old teaching and is rejected by the current teachings. Once again, "for many years". The Lord is merciful and we have seen the error of our ways. It slightly irritates me that people keep bringing up things that were solved years ago as an argument. That doesn't stand - just as many of you get irritated when I bring up polygamy.

[Snow]

Oh Please talk about a load of %^*&^*&^($ As usual and typical of lds on the internet. Travaller adds absolutly nothing but personal insults. __YES by their friut you shall know them.

And you guy wonder why things digressas they do on thread

Still trolling Roman?

Most people eventually mature and grow out of it. Your spelling and grammar haven't improved but still... Why the delay?

[Snow]

So by the atonment, I'm sure you mean the apsotasy, right? Just to clear up any confusion. Well, that's what we believe about Christ's coming.

That is an old teaching and is rejected by the current teachings. Once again, "for many years". The Lord is merciful and we have seen the error of our ways. It slightly irritates me that people keep bringing up things that were solved years ago as an argument. That doesn't stand - just as many of you get irritated when I bring up polygamy.

Huh?

What's an old teaching? That the atonement is eternal?

What do you mean rejected by current teachings? Is that supposed to prove something - that because someone teaches that something isn't true, that it therefore isn't true?

[roman]

Still trolling Roman?

Most people eventually mature and grow out of it. Your spelling and grammar haven't improved but still... Why the delay?

Well how very nice of you to notice. Thank you

I see your still after the messenger and not able to engauge the message. Most people would grow out of that school yard playground mentallity--put down their lollipop and pick up a book and learn something.

Hows thatt for a comeback--still love ya man:lol:

[Snow]

Well how very nice of you to notice. Thank you

I see your still after the messenger and not able to engauge the message. Most people would grow out of that school yard playground mentallity--put down their lollipop and pick up a book and learn something.

Hows thatt for a comeback--still love ya man:lol:

Learn something like what? How to spell "engage?"

Anyway... nice to hear from you again, strangely. Hope you are well and that things are good for you.

[roman]

Learn something like what? How to spell "engage?"

Anyway... nice to hear from you again, strangely. Hope you are well and that things are good for you.

You know in a offbeat twisted, but good kinda way I have a great deal of fun exchanging things with you. Your the most challenging poster I have ever run into. You have taught me alot on how to play this game.

Now are you free for spelling lessons? :)

[Snow]

You know in a offbeat twisted, but good kinda way I have a great deal of fun exchanging things with you. Your the most challenging poster I have ever run into. You have taught me alot on how to play this game.

Now are you free for spelling lessons? :)

I use a Mac computer and it catches most all my errors and helps me correct them as soon as I make them - no need to run a spell checker.

I pray for you to turn away from your evil PC-Microsoft ways.

[mwesigwa]

First and foremost i want to thank you for the observation and discussion about the apostasy.Apostasy is still happening today is not just something that happened in the past.Apostady is the falling away from the truth,aren't many people falling away from the truth up to this day? The great apostasy happened when members of the only true church fell away from the original truth, scriptures were misinterpreted to suite their ignorance and desires to manupulate mankind and it resulted into many confusions and loss of the whole truth.If you want to discuss more about this get in touch with me at : [email protected] so i can give you a lengthy course on it even references from the scriptures.

Thank you and hoping to hear from you soon.

Mwesigwa

[bert10]

CatholicGirl.

Matthew 16:18 - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I often run across this argument by the protestants on Christians Forums. It is true that Jesus said the following above...the important thing that most is missing....is what prompted Jesus to say this in the first place?

Matthew 16:17 - And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

It was this previous verse...which shows that only Peter had answered the Lord correctly because he had heard the FATHER in his Heart. This rock called Revelation is the cornerstone that the builders of churches always reject.

The gates of hell cannot prevail against anyone who builds his life on this rock. Here how it is suppose to work in each one of our life.

The way High-Way of Holiness [isaiah] or Straight and Narrow Way of Jesus. It does not matter which of the terms one uses...They work in the same manner. Whenever one turns to the right hand [zealousness] or left hand [towards error of doctrine] We shall hear a voice saying....

Isaiah 30:21 - And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

It is why only the Elect which are they who walk on the way of perfection shall not err in these last days. And again it is because they are led by the Spirit of God in their hearts. This is the rock by which the gates of hell cannot prevail against.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Oh, okay. But I still don't understand how this could have happened. In the bible, Jesus says "Upon this rock I shall build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Jesus built HIS church on a firm foundation, and promised that the "gates of hell" will not prevail against it. If His church dissapeared even for a short time, the gates of hell would have prevailed against it, thus making Jesus a liar.

Also... I don't think a mere seventy years after the Lord had risen to heaven, something He had made would fall apart so easily. Not when He meant it to last through the ages.