Joseph Smith lessons

[Avrham]

Does anyone have problems with teaching from manualJoseph Smith for PH/RS I find it very hard to comprehend the lessons so far, last lesson we read was about coming of John the Baptist it seems that the manual is centred on alot of personal journels from Joseph Smith and find it hard to relate let alone teach to the EQ does anyone out their have the same problem or its just me going nuts/loopey

please help anyone:)

[kona0197]

I've been reading the book. No issues so far. For me it is easy to understand.

[Snow]

I think I see the problem. You are using the manual. If you want a quality lesson, that's a no-no.

The manuals of today are a far cry from what they could be or should be. They are very doumbed-down. One year Hugh Nibley wrote the priesthood manual. What a difference.

[tubaloth]

I hadn't notice anything that was like hard to understand. I have noticed that it seems like our teaches hardly even use the manual (with kind of bothers me). I'm carrying around this big book, and we read maybe one or two quotes, and then teaching goes in some other direction. Maybe that is because of the lesson manual. I just found it strange with have this manual of Joseph Smith's teachings, and in our lesson we hardly use it (it does kind depend on the teacher.)

Sense I’m already griping about this, does anybody know why they don’t try to number the paragraphs in the book. (or use letters). Yes that would be trying to give each paragraph a verse number, and thus make it seem to much like the scriptures. Its easier to say Chapter 5, verse 10 and 11 (or H – J). You could even write what you are going to cover on the board. In stead you have to go Page 24 third paragraph from the top of the page.

[skalenfehl]

I've been an Elder's quorum instructor in many wards for the last 15 years. Each year there are different manuals, themes, etc.

These particular books on the prophets read like historical accounts, but are divided by the accounts and the lessons that we can learn in each chapter section. How many who are studying/reading have read the introduction? Here are a couple quotes from it:

The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles have established the Teachings of the Presidents of the Church series to help you deepen your understanding of the restored gospel and draw closer to the Lord through the teachings of latter-day Presidents of the Church."

The purpose of the book is outlined as is the manner in which we can benefit by prayerfully studying and discussing the accounts and how they might e applied to our lives. There are plenty of study suggestions in each chapter as well so that we can know what to take away from each account.

Personal Study

As you study the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, seek the inspiration of the Spirit. Remember Nephi's promise: "He that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost" (1 Nephi 10:19). Begin your study with prayer, and continue to pray and ponder in your heart as you read.

At the end of each chapter, you will find questions and scripture references that will help you understand and apply Jospeh Smith's teachings. Consider reviewing them before you read the chapter.

By understanding the suggestions at the end of each chapter we can understand and appreciate the books better and how we can apply the lessons and experiences of the prophets in our own lives and perhaps avoid some of the same pitfalls of the early Saints.

[Palerider]

I think I see the problem. You are using the manual. If you want a quality lesson, that's a no-no.

The manuals of today are a far cry from what they could be or should be. They are very doumbed-down. One year Hugh Nibley wrote the priesthood manual. What a difference.

what snow said.....if you are going to teach from the manual.....bring a pillow for the class

[BenRaines]

I teach the third Sunday of the month in HP Group. I use the manual as a guide for discussion, not as a teachers guide but a guide for discussion. Teaching guidelines are to use the manual, scriptures, conference talks. Do not go and use a book that you read and liked but is not a teaching resource. I know that there are others that with the research that is available online could tell all kinds of cool stories but they are not the materials of lessons in church.

Ben Raines

[skalenfehl]

I don't think the books are dumbed down. Manuals may not always have all the cues and questions to ask specifically and what materials you should have handy and what scriptures you need to refer to in order to plan ahead as many Primary and Sunday School manuals have, but that doesn't mean the lessons are any less valuable. It just means more prayerful preparation is needed. If you really need to bring a pillow to class, then I sympathize because the instructor probably just comes to class and dry reads with an occasional interjection for uninspired questions to a class of guys who are probably wondering what's for dinner or who's playing on tv. Just my two cents.

[Palerider]

thats was my whole point in what I said.....too many times teachers read from the manual and won't lead a discussion....when they don't prepare....yes you need a pillow

[a-train]

I'm just glad to be covering the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. We need to. Getting to know him, his views, and the history of the Church is very important.

-a-train

[Palerider]

I am glad that we are going thru all of the teachings of the Prophets. Its great getting to learn about them.

[Snow]

I don't think the books are dumbed down. Manuals may not always have all the cues and questions to ask specifically and what materials you should have handy and what scriptures you need to refer to in order to plan ahead as many Primary and Sunday School manuals have, but that doesn't mean the lessons are any less valuable. It just means more prayerful preparation is needed. If you really need to bring a pillow to class, then I sympathize because the instructor probably just comes to class and dry reads with an occasional interjection for uninspired questions to a class of guys who are probably wondering what's for dinner or who's playing on tv. Just my two cents.

Do you have Hugh Nibley's An Approach to the Book of Mormon?

Time Vindicates Hugh Nibley - FARMS Review

That was originally a priesthood manual. You'd never see something like that these days... that interesting, that challenging. Same for Lowell Bennion's stuff. Now it's Mormonism lite.

[rameumptom]

I think I see the problem. You are using the manual. If you want a quality lesson, that's a no-no.

The manuals of today are a far cry from what they could be or should be. They are very dumbed-down. One year Hugh Nibley wrote the priesthood manual. What a difference.

There is a big difference in the membership of the Church today and in the 1950s, when Nibley's manual was used. We're mostly converts now, and not ready for the deep Nibley stuff (well, I am, but I have been around for 32 years in the Church).

The focus of the Church is different, as well. We are to 'teach the doctrine', wherein is spiritual power. Nibley's books and writings offered knowledge, some of which are now known to be incorrect, btw. But doctrine remains doctrine until changed by revelation.

These lessons are geared for the instructor to take these doctrinal and spiritual events in Joseph's life and "liken them unto us." How does the visit of John the Baptist affect you and me today? Where would we be without the evangelical calling of Aaronic priest to preach and perform saving ordinances for the remission of sins? It is a required step in receiving the ordinances of the Melchizedek Priesthood, which open the door for the theophany that Joseph Smith hoped and prepared each member receive.

[WillowTheWhisp]

The 'lesson manual' is a personal study manual. The point is you should be reading and studying it at home and then bringing to the lesson all that you have learned from your personal study. If everyone in the class did that then the teacher would have a much easier task of directing the discussion around the relevant topics and tailoring them to the needs of the individual members in the class. When you have that sort of a PH or RS lesson it can be a wonderful spirit filled experience and such a contrast to the lesson where a person merely stands at the front of the room and reads from the book.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

Dallin H Oaks said :

As we approach 2008 and a new course of study in our Melchizedek Priesthood quorums and Relief Societies, I renew our caution about how we use the Teachings of Presidents of the Church manuals. Many years of inspired work have produced our 2008 volume of the teachings of Joseph Smith, the founding prophet of this dispensation. This is a landmark among Church books. In the past, some teachers have given a chapter of the Teachings manuals no more than a brief mention and then substituted a lesson of their own choice. It may have been a good lesson, but this is not an acceptable practice. A gospel teacher is called to teach the subject specified from the inspired materials provided. The best thing a teacher can do with Teachings: Joseph Smith is to select and quote from the words of the Prophet on principles specially suited to the needs of class members and then direct a class discussion on how to apply those principles in the circumstances of their lives.

This is the crux in our teaching. Balancing the use of the book. Don't go overboard with reading, but don't under use the book. What I did was read the chapter with the Spirit, underlined quotes that I felt impressed to underline. Then I just got up on Sunday and gave a lesson. I used all but one quote and I talked for twenty minutes. I didn't go chronologically either, it was just as the spirit directed. I talked about the doctrine involved(which is the most important thing to talk about). There are times discussion is good, but there are other times when it is better to just sit back and listen. For instance, if a general authority came to teach us. I think I would sit up and listen and wouldn't discuss it. It is an opportunity to drink deeply the words of life. We have to be spiritually in tune for these moments. Keep attention by speaking truth, and do not cause debate and contention with the discussion.

[Hemidakota]

I guess I need to reference to one of the brethren then....or he needs to read his own manual writing skills. lol

[Snow]

. The best thing a teacher can do with Teachings: Joseph Smith is to select and quote from the words of the Prophet on principles specially suited to the needs of class members and then direct a class discussion on how to apply those principles in the circumstances of their lives.

No offense to Elder Oakes, and I'm sure he is right, but the last thing I want to do is have a lesson where we take some text and then have a class discussion on how to apply those principles in the circumstances of our lives. I don't need or want that. What I want is to learn something new, something complex, or esoteric. When I teach, I teach what I want to learn. And, for what it worth, I get a much better attendance and reception than those instructors that direct a class discussion on how to apply those principles in the circumstances of their lives...

[WillowTheWhisp]

Snow, with all due respect to you, should we not be teaching our classes as the church leaders tell us to teach them and not in direct opposition to those instructions as we personally see fit?

[WillowTheWhisp]

This is the crux in our teaching. Balancing the use of the book. Don't go overboard with reading, but don't under use the book. What I did was read the chapter with the Spirit, underlined quotes that I felt impressed to underline. Then I just got up on Sunday and gave a lesson. I used all but one quote and I talked for twenty minutes. I didn't go chronologically either, it was just as the spirit directed. I talked about the doctrine involved(which is the most important thing to talk about). There are times discussion is good, but there are other times when it is better to just sit back and listen. For instance, if a general authority came to teach us. I think I would sit up and listen and wouldn't discuss it. It is an opportunity to drink deeply the words of life. We have to be spiritually in tune for these moments. Keep attention by speaking truth, and do not cause debate and contention with the discussion.

Thanks for the info from Elder Oaks. :)

Unfortunately it sounds like you didn't so much give a lesson as give a lecture. It would have been a great Sacrament Meeting talk because those talks are not supposed to invite audience participation but whenever I have been to teacher training meetings the emphasis has always been on inviting class participation because people learn more when they are involved in something than they do when they are merely passive. People can fall asleep during a sacrament talk but they are far less likely to fall asleep during a discussion in which they are participating. This is why we bring visual aids to classes too, and why we get people involved in doing something. I wish I could find those statistics which explain how much people remember when they participate in comparison to how much they don't remember when they sit there being talked at.

[Snow]

Snow, with all due respect to you, should we not be teaching our classes as the church leaders tell us to teach them and not in direct opposition to those instructions as we personally see fit?

I teach as the spirit so instructs me.

[Hemidakota]

Yes! There has been times while walking to the pulpit and the Spirit comes and prompt for changes with assigned talk; then endup discarding the prepare talk. Been there done that one many times.

[Elphaba]

I teach as the spirit so instructs me.

I would donate money to see that.

Where is my Paul Potts picture?

Elphaba

[rameumptom]

I teach as the spirit so instructs me.

We should teach as the Spirit directs. But we need to ensure that we are in touch with the Spirit. There is a reason we are given the manuals and direction we are given for Church lessons. The majority of members are converts, and are not ready for the deep end of the pool. They need to focus on the doctrine, even if it is meaty doctrine, to prepare them for exaltation. If this is your idea of esoteric, then good.

Doctrine is not speculation, BTW. But it can be deep, as long as it is based solidly upon the teachings of the living prophets and scriptures.

For too many years, we looked beyond the mark when it came to teaching lessons. We were filling our minds with all kinds of interesting speculations, but the members were not being converted to the doctrines that would actually change them inside. The doctrines are powerful and there is some great depth to them. President Packer has consistently taught us to "teach the doctrines of the kingdom", knowing that these are the things that change people.

For example, with the John the Baptist lesson, we were able to discuss the keys of the Aaronic priesthood and how they apply to us today. We also were able to discuss how we can personally receive revelation, just as Joseph and Oliver did (seeking knowledge through study, and then seeking answers to new questions). Aren't those two concepts and doctrines of greater power and meat than how to understand Adam-God or whether the Beast represents Europe or Damian? If this is the type of esoteric knowledge you seek, then by all means, teach it.

But don't be like the seminary teacher of the 70s, who only wanted to talk about the signs of the 2nd Coming, to the extent that he ignored teaching about the atonement and other issues of much greater value. After all, there is much esoteric information about the atonement that most members do not understand. It would be a shame to lose our exaltation focusing on Nibley's evidences of the Book of Mormon (as much as I enjoy studying his books) at the expense of spiritual doctrine. And Nibley would agree.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

We should teach as the Spirit directs. But we need to ensure that we are in touch with the Spirit. There is a reason we are given the manuals and direction we are given for Church lessons. The majority of members are converts, and are not ready for the deep end of the pool. They need to focus on the doctrine, even if it is meaty doctrine, to prepare them for exaltation. If this is your idea of esoteric, then good.

Doctrine is not speculation, BTW. But it can be deep, as long as it is based solidly upon the teachings of the living prophets and scriptures.

For too many years, we looked beyond the mark when it came to teaching lessons. We were filling our minds with all kinds of interesting speculations, but the members were not being converted to the doctrines that would actually change them inside. The doctrines are powerful and there is some great depth to them. President Packer has consistently taught us to "teach the doctrines of the kingdom", knowing that these are the things that change people.

Bingo. This is why I taught that way for the lesson I had. There was one way as the doctrine states(Salvation is in Christ and no other way), and discussion opens speculation. NOT what you want. Some topics discussion is good. However the point of these lessons is to learn doctrine and apply them to our lives. Which if we are in tune to the spirit, we will receive a prompting as we're listening. It allows us to drink constantly, instead of thinking to add to a discussion. It doesn't matter attendance, doesn't matter how pleasing it was. It just matters if the lesson was taught by the Spirit, which that meeting was. It did begin as a discussion it just ended up turning into pure presentation of truth.

It is NOT the responsibility of the teacher to keep interest in a meeting by involving them. His responsibility is to teach the doctrine and keep interest with the Spirit. Which means it is a two part participation in the Spirit. The listener is in tune, and the teacher is in tune.

We teach truth by presenting it and allowing the Spirit to touch the hearts of others. Not by telling them for them. We allow them to make the choice to accept it themselves.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

I guess what I was saying, was that the spirit is what is going to get a person involved in a meeting. That is how it works in Sacrament meeting. Also, having the Spirit with you is predicated on your desire to have it with you, and the desire to learn.