Hemidakota

LOL Yes.... Mr. Jim's Bar-B-Q 3809 South Vermont Avenue Los Angeles, Calif. 213-731-5453

Did I miss something here? What part of the Book of Mormon are you referring too to prove your assumption? Don't be haste to judge. Do some research of ancient cities dated that are found in the eastern part of the Yucatan Peninsula and compare to the western portion. Something drastically happened to the land mass. Also, use the same comparison of ancient cities found going south to Columbia. What we view today as Americas [some features changed] land masses, were not the same features found before the death of Christ. Members usually look at the map of today and expect it never changed since the first man. Even during the time of Noah, there some changes to land features of earth that we view today prior to the flood. Actual Native American artifacts were found around the ‘the hill’ by local farmers and still more can be found if you time, devotion, and allowed to do so. These artifacts may have nothing to do with that last stand [large scale battle] as some think. Though, I never understood why people refer the hill as Cumorah when the prophet just calls it a hill. The original hill can be located in below the border. Where? That is still being debated on which Cerra. If you go on to Goggle Maps, zoom in to Southern Mexico, type Cumorah in the search box for proposals. Changing the topic, I won’t begin to tell you about the Mounds being found throughout North America with skeletal remains that exceed the normal human height of today. . Who do think the Mayans, Olmecs, and Toltec [others I failed to mention] parents? Then we have a corrupted language that was not a Nephite origin since the Lamanites mixed with the remainder of the Jaredites, later with the Mulekites, and apostated Nephites. I would expect the these Lamanites after warring among themselves, make changes to the original way of life by each predecessor claimed king. Eventually, the truth will come on exact locations of those cities, as other plates will be forth coming.

I was referring the physical 'creation of separation' of the two as a metaphorically story telling. If my assumption is correct [seeking a confirmation from HS], this is something that is only revealed when a person is ready to understand the beginning of Ahman. In the search for the answer has been one of those ‘Connecting-The-Dots’ picture game. Even the title, 'Christ', was one of the earlier clues. Other clues received, came over the few years that connected another dots together to form the picture [answer]. . Russell Ball wrote a piece called “Whole Earth", which was published in the 2nd edition of the "Journal of Book of Mormon Studies". The topic was on Noah Flood was not a global flood. I was asked a question, 'What happened to the fresh water fish if the earth was flooded?' It seemed to be a reasonable question that needed to be answered. I use to be a member of the Ey - L forum [bYU Professors and other LDS intellects] since the nineties. I placed the question on the forum and expected to receive some help in answering this mystery. After 18-months, research, study, prayers, I managed finally in receiving the answer by prayer and that surprised me what was received. Russell gave me his paper after I received the answer. After reading it, I told him, “…I hope you are not teaching this dogma to anyone.’ Also told Steve Nelson, the earth is not a static model [Mount Everest] to base any claimed factual notion through sediments and layers.

I forgot to ask, do you know Russell Ball?

Congratulation...to you and Richard. The 'hammer hit the nail." It confirms my assumption after a lengthy research. Side thoughts: Is the FATHER telling a story here since HE "could of created both Adam and Eve together" outside the garden as HE mentioned in earlier part pertaining to male and female being created together spiritually? Behind the 'rib' of Adam, lies a deeper meaning of the "beginning."

To add more clarity on what Doctor Steuss stated, you can find the speech recorded in the BYU Speeches of the Year, 1981-1982, on page 98. [Actual date: BYU Devotion March 2, 1982]

I am currently looking for any reference given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, regarding Adam's Rib [Eve creation]. This subject has my curiosity at the moment and may provide that ultimate answer. Any thoughts, references, to this subject is welcome.

To receive the truth concerning this planet's creation, it will require some thoughtful studying and lengthy sincere humble prayers. For the 'few,' an eye witness of the event is required for self-edification. Today's science, as I tell my children, 'don't believe everything they claim as factual."

Awesome....

To simplify this in three terms [Ref: Rameumptom]: 1] Membership of the Savior church and had received temple oridances 2] Receive the Second Comforter - heavens opened [D&C 76:43] 3] Reject and an enemy to the Savior; opposed the church [D&C 76 31-38] Ref: Alma 39:6 Reading material: "Miracle of Forgiveness", Pg117 "We Believe" Topic 790

Are you married? If not, you need to approach your Bishop with this issue. When you finally get the opportunity to have that personal visit, ask the Bishop for a 'kneeling' opening prayer. Let your prayer be one of sincerity, asking for guidance from Heavenly Father, and a confirmation from the Holy Spirit to that answer. I know you will receive an answer. ..:)

If the heavens [spirits] wept over this spirit fall, I doubt he was a liar in the beginning. Perhaps, with having those poor character traits were his weakness. . I was pressing upon the Hebrew meaning of what is termed the Eldest Son was considered the first born. Excellent analysis…. :)

I am not always in conformity with Doctor Ainsworth studies; nevertheless, this one has intrigued me to do some further scriptural study. Wise as to GOD? LOL

Did you receive your answer?

Lucifer's next notable flawed character trait; Jealousy [see Moses 1:12, Moses 4:3, Moses 6:49]. There are other flawed character traits I could list when studying the evil of humanity but the point here, what made this 'Son of Morning' to fall? Getting back to your first statement, I think the answer should be for us is to seek to emulate the Savior as told in D&C 121:41.

We can clearly see, Lucifer had a flawed character trait; namely selfishness [see Moses 4:1, Isaiah 14:9-13, Ezekiel 31:10, and so forth].

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement. What caused this individual whom was loved [Read D&C 76:26] make such a vast change to his character. His demeanor, changed after his fall.

What is really strange with this topic, being member of the church and in a state ignorance regarding this subject of immortal beings require energy source, indeed was a strange notion to me. Perhaps, my heritage culture up bringing in belonging to another theological sect, ingrained my mind with respects of immortal beings did not require any food source. Now, advancing my own self-gospel edification, I had changed that personal notion. In our scriptural canonize accounts, Moses [2] & Abraham, before the fall, the Godhead ensured, both Adam and Eve had an energy source to choose from, in sustaining their immortal bodies while in the garden, eastward [southeast] of the Land Eden [ref: Genesis 2:8, Moses 3:8-9, Abraham 5:8]. Moses records this very fact, it was the fruit bearing trees that were planted within the garden were indeed, the source of food for these two: Gen. 1: 29 (29-30): “¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.” Moses 3:15: “And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it...” Even Abraham recorded the same remarkable vision: Abraham 4:29: “And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.” Abraham 5:9: “And out of the ground made the Gods to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food; the tree of life, also, in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Even the Prophet Nephi, reading the account of Moses from the plates of Laban, noted the same trees were planted for a food source. Using these accounts and our own reasoning of understanding, it does appear the fruit bearing trees were the source of food for our first parents. Even in the midst of the garden, stood impiously, the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. You will note both are fruit bearing trees beside the others. Question is why would both immortal beings require such a diet? Consider the following: - Adam and Eve being immortal, their bodies did not require any protein source for continued reparation of their skeletal muscle and bone structure. Their immortal veins did not have any mortal blood, to course the body’s vein infrastructure. What flow within those veins, was the godly ‘Celestialize’ light. Having an immortal state, the bodies only required a source of food for energy sustainment. By adding certain fruit bearing trees in the garden would meet their requirement. - Being immortal, where there is no death to consider, especially within the garden, by eating the fruit from certain trees, both Adam and Eve were not required to kill anything. I highly doubt, being grown adult bodies, with child like mind set, killing was not even comprehendible at this time. When the fruit reaches the maturity state, would eventually fall to the ground and start the decay/recycle process. There was no need to kill anything for life sustainment. Upon eating the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam and Eve were casted out of the garden in that ‘dark and dreary world. I would contend in do time, their own digest system was changed forever. Blood was introduce into the vein infrastructure and would alter the bodily need for a protein source beside the already provided energy fruit bearing trees. From both accounts [Old Testament and Pearl of Great Price], Moses 4:24 records, they now need two additional source for this problem, namely herbs and product of herbs called bread [grain] “Thorns also, and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field. By the sweat of they face shalt thou eat bread...” When we get to Noah’s timeframe [Read up to Gen 7:2], Noah was given instruction on a limited [animal] protein food sources prior to the Global Flood. It wasn’t until afterward; more changes came when Noah was again instructed to take seven each of clean beasts and two of unclean beasts. Majority of the beasts were now used for food protein source. [See Gen 9:3]What is startling, is the amount of time it took [1,000 years] from being in the garden as an immortal being [fruit] to now, a mortal [fruit, herb, bread, animals] being to be allowed consumed majority of the beasts today. I now add a postulation, which I do credit Doctor J. Ainsworth for his devoted insight to this very subject. It will take our mortal digest system 1,000 years to reverse this problem. Blood will at this point; replaced by the same godly Celestialize light source, thus returning us back to that very day, Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the garden. As it was in the beginning, the Savior will again, instruct the millennium saints of appropriate food source to eat. They will not be in that position to kill any soul-living individuality. In closing, John the Beloved seen this also: Revelation 22:2: 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Credited to: Moses, Abraham, & Doctor J. Ainsworth

Could there be other ancient recorded records or plates that may come forth in the latter days, beside the ones that Moroni hid up for the Prophet Joseph Smith? My own admissions here, I don't believe that the current hill, which the community of saints calls the Hill Cumorah, New York State, was infact the original hill as pointed out in the Book of Mormon. . That being said, there are some early Church writers cogitate that other hidden records will be made available to the church soon. Consider President Heber C. Kimball remarks to Elder Mills: Another discourse talked about is the one delivered in Ogden, 18 May 1873 by Elder Orson Pratt:

I have to agree with Doctor Steuss link to Steve Rick’s article. Much research was done on this to prove otherwise. The consensus remains the same on process of translating the special characters. Bill McKeever did some fantastic work in this area of notable history. In his article, least understood factoid about these plates; the plates were not made of solid gold but an gold alloy covering. Joseph own brother, who witnessed to the fact that when handling the plates, they did not weigh more than 60-lbs.: Another interesting factoid within the plates or the book is the Seer Mosiah who interrupted the plates of Ether by the same means since it was written a strange symbolic language. We do know, the seal portion of the plates is written in a special language [symbols] by the Brother of Jared and a latter day prophet [seer] will have to translate the sealed portion in our time frame by the same means.

Let me correct this statement...Lucifer or the Son of the Morning wasn't a liar until he was casted out when he did become Satan. He was well love by many prior to his downfall. How could one lead astray over a third of the host from among Father’s children if he wasn't that well love? Yes, he wanted that position as part of the Godhead. He knew he could not have that true god attribute until he could receive that portion of the mortal embodiment, along with the glory of that position [savior]. Now, the question is why was he upset when the Father chooses Jehovah over Lucifer? I proposed something here that may help. When you compare Cain and Abel, whom would the rights of the first born be given? When you look at Esau and Jacob, whom would the rights of the first born be given? Perhaps, in this quest in searching the answer on why would the Son of the Morning fall in receiving his answer that he was not acceptable for the Savior’s role lies in those in mortal world that present the same issue.

I assumed by Satan tactics of having both Adam and Eve making aprons out of which tree? Could also be the same fruit that was sweet to the taste.

Which reference are you looking for? I am a member of the church. I am also here in trying to unravel the mystery of the 'rib' [Adam & Eve].

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After a lengthy search, the answer on whether Eve was told by Adam is not the case. When approached by Lucifer [serpent], the conversation ended up that Eve was commanded by the Godhead in not partaking the fruit - as she related this statement to Lucifer. The timing of Lucifer's tempting Eve in the garden, when there was no anglelic guardian watching is another issue. The next question, we do know that Adam was shy of 1,000 years old when he passed away. How old was Eve when she passed away since she died after him? lol