ruthiechan

At her worst to boot! But, that didn't matter. She was spiffy in real life. Good to know it wasn't just an online persona! It was great to go to Utah to visit fam and meet the pam. Oh yeah!

Yeah, it's the presentation. For us, the husband would mention the idea of having another child, a discussion would take place, and then together the husband and wife would take it to the Lord.

But we should not immediately assume she will change her mind. Maybe she said she wanted kids too because she felt like it was her duty but now that she's older she feels more confident about telling him her secret feelings on the subject. I think you are not being sensitive to this man. Telling him to love his choice? Would you say that to a woman in similar situation? Would you ask her did you marry him or his testicles? The OP's wife has betrayed a previous arrangement, and he's been trying to deal with it for 3 years, and now he needs help. He obviously DOES love his wife otherwise he'd've divorced her already.

I think the OP really needs to talk to his Bishop about this.

Eh heh, just looked at the original question again. Are you talking about being favored of the Lord? When you are favored of the Lord it doesn't mean God doesn't love all of his children, but that he is well pleased with people who are choosing to obey his commandments, and as a result bind him to his word so that he has to bestow blessings upon them. That's what he wants us ALL to do, but not all of us do it. But he does give us every opportunity to change our minds when don't. We all also have different needs and wants. So, if you have an emotional need to do art despite your poverty if you rely on the Lord he'll provide a way for you to have your emotional need met. But the next guy over does not have that need so gets something else instead. Being no respecter of persons does not mean he's going to treat us all exactly the same.

Basically, they were doing it wrong until corrected later. Also, wasn't there at some point when the Church was about to go bankrupt that tithing changed to 30% but then changed back after the crisis was over?

Hold on to your hat Vort because MY shocking theory is that equal partners means that the husband and wife are working together to achieve the same goal, but that "men and women are different, with different duties and different realms of responsibility [better enabling them to achieve their goal]. To say that one is somehow "better than" the other (e.g. motherhood is better than the Priesthood, or women are naturally more righteous than men) is an absurdity. They are not "better than" or "worse than", nor are they "equal" in any sense of sameness. They are complementary. [Gender specific spiritual gifts are also complementary. One is not better than the other, merely different.]"

Emphasis added.So, if a married couple is into BDSM they are engaging in pornography?

Ya know, you might be right. I just had a thought. Women officiators in the Temple use the Priesthood for specific ordinances. Yet, we often say that men hold the Priesthood, and therefore women do not, even though there are specific times and places where women do have it for specific purposes (namely the Temple). If that is the case for the male gift of the Priesthood, then it stands to reason that the female gift of spiritual instinct also crosses over to men at some point at specific times and places for specific purposes too. Also, stop saying it's irrelevant what you think Elder Hafen meant. I find it relevant because it'll help me understand better where you are coming from. Also, I value what you have to say. Hm, lately, you have seemed to be at odds with people more than usual, and thus those who are new make the wrong assumptions about you because they don't have the history of Vortiness.

Then that leads me back to my original question. What do you think it means when he says, "as a gender gift"? We are all born with the Light of Christ, so with that in mind, yes, we all have inborn spiritual traits regardless of gender, but I don't think that's what Hafen was talking about. People do not talk about men's intuition, they talk about women's intuition which is what I think this gender gift is. (PS: I like you too. I'm not offended by you either.)

Whoa! I never said that! That's totally different! If men did not have any spiritual gifts they would not have the faith required to properly utilize the Priesthood since faith is the spiritual gift that all other gifts operate under. Of course men have spiritual gifts. Women are given the gift of innate spiritual instincts while men are given the presiding gift of the Priesthood. Both are spiritual gifts, but of a different sort, yet both are dependent on our faith and efforts to live the Gospel. They are also complementary to each other and work best together.

Then what do you think Elder Hafen means when he says "as a gender gift"?

Elder Bruce C Hafen from the Quorum of the Seventy states: "The concept of interdependent, equal partners is well-grounded in the doctrine of the restored gospel. Eve was Adam’s 'help meet' (Genesis 2:18). The original Hebrew for meet means that Eve was adequate for, or equal to, Adam. She wasn’t his servant or his subordinate. And the Hebrew for help in 'help meet' is ezer, a term meaning that Eve drew on heavenly powers when she supplied their marriage with the spiritual instincts uniquely available to women as a gender gift. "As President Boyd K. Packer, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, has said, men and women are by nature different, and while they share many basic human traits, the 'virtues and attributes upon which perfection and exaltation depend come [more] naturally to a woman.' ". . . "Spouses need not perform the same functions to be equal. The woman’s innate spiritual instincts are like a moral magnet, pointing toward spiritual north—except when that magnet’s particles are scrambled out of order. The man’s presiding gift is the priesthood—except when he is not living the principles of righteousness. If the husband and the wife are wise, their counseling will be reciprocal: he will listen to the promptings of her inner spiritual compass just as she will listen to his righteous counsel." It is my belief that this gender gift is commonly known as Women's Intuition.

Not quite. Men have the Priesthood, women do not. Women have spiritual instincts, men do not. The two are complementary. Men are blessed by the innate spiritual gift women have. Woman are blessed by the Priesthood men have. Source: Crossing Thresholds and Becoming Equal Partners - Liahona Aug. 2007

The dictionary definition of preside according to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary: 1: to exercise guidance, direction, or control 2 a : to occupy the place of authority : act as president, chairman, or moderator b : to occupy a position similar to that of a president or chairman 3: to occupy a position of featured instrumental performer —usually used with at <presided at the organ>

Of course they are, if you do not know someone you're preparing food for is allergic, or if you do not know you have the allergy yourself.

Problem: focusing on the negative instead of the positive aspects of having a child. Possible problem: associating with feminists that are feeding the negativity. Your wife needs to take this to the Lord.

Priesthood blessings, and special blessings for the home also help.

Presentation matters. True story: A woman (not me) taught about Christ, but in her lesson she gave all these reasons why Christ was false, and expected the Relief Society to be able to refute the reasons. They were not prepared for this. At the end of the meeting the sisters left disheartened, some testimonies shaken at the very least (perhaps one or two left the church for a while, I don't know). They were not bolstered nor uplifted. However, if the woman had done a point by point refutation of what the disbelievers said instead, then the difference would've been paramount. The women would have left the meeting knowing what the naysayers believed and would be armed to deal with it.

When I tell you not to think of an elephant, the first thing you think of is an elephant. When asked the original question of this thread one's mind instantly calls up that scenario. For you, it's no big deal. For someone else who is already struggling, it can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. That person may not ever revisit the thread, but it's too late. The imagery has already been called to mind and the damage done.

President Hinckley did not ask us to imagine what it would feel like if the church were a fraud. In fact, nor did Vort's Father in law. If it isn't true then we're a fraud. If it isn't true it still leads to a happy life here on earth. Those are very very different from the original question. Dravin, I do not think it's fair for you to say that you do not believe this hypothetical is dangerous because Slamjet told us that FOR HIM IT WAS and it really messed things up for him. Vort, and others, having doubt and sowing seeds of doubt are two different things. I'll have doubts, but then when I experiment upon the word, my faith is renewed. When I have doubts about particular doctrine, then I research, ponder, and pray. That is how it should be done. This thread does not do that. It has the potential to fertilize doubt for SOME PEOPLE, and it is them we need to think of. I know you and Dravin and others will do fine with this topic, but not everyone will. Slamjet just told us that he did not when it came up for him years ago. It is illogical for us to conclude he is the only one or to disregard his message because he's taking it personally. It's like saying only those who've been physically abused are against corporal punishment.

Slamjet is right. The Gospel is designed for the weakest of us. There are questions on this forum that I will NEVER ASK because I do not know the spiritual levels of each person here. Maybe the majority of people here will be fine with this question, but maybe a lurker will not be. Our focus needs to be on the unknown person who will not be fine after entertaining this quesetion.

Be prayerful about foster care. There are people who work with distressed children and since that's always what they see decide they don't want their own thinking that's what is in store for them as parents.

This child does NOT NEED TO BE PUNISHED. This child needs COUNSELING, and will need it for YEARS. So will the family. So will the babysitter. Most people are NOT trained to ask children investigative questions. If adults can be convinced of being in an air balloon without ever having been in one how much more can children be convinced of doing something they may not have done or experienced? I hope the investigation goes well and they do the right thing for the child and family.

Martain, that link only gives a list of speeches. What in particular did you want us to look at?