Vanhin

Okay I just have to ask, what does a face holding a disclaimer getting whipped by another face mean? Vanhin

I love it. "Church of Jesus the Messiah of the Latter-day Saints" Makes perfect sense. Jesus is the Messiah of the Saints. 18 But, behold, the righteous, the saints of the Holy One of Israel, they who have believed in the Holy One of Israel, they who have endured the crosses of the world, and despised the shame of it, they shall inherit the kingdom of God, which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world, and their joy shall be full forever. 19 O the greatness of the mercy of our God, the Holy One of Israel! For he delivereth his saints from that awful monster the devil, and death, and hell, and that lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment. (2 Ne. 9:18-19) There is deep significance and meaning in the name of the Church. Sincerely, Vanhin

I'm not sure about what you mean Captain, but I can assure you that 60 years later God still has an authorized prophet on the earth, and his name is Thomas S. Monson. I don't see any evidence of "mainstream Christian fundamentalism" in this Church. We still teach the fundamentals of our religion, as it was taught by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the early brethren. There have been a couple of doctrines and practices that have been superseded by revelation - and those are found in Official Declarations 1 & 2, but the fundamentals of our religion are intact. All you have to do is browse the curriculum. Look at the lesson manuals from the last few years, including the Joseph Smith manual, and even the new Gospel Principles manual. 1. God the Father is an Exalted Man and so is His Only Begotten Son 2. The spirits of mankind are the offspring of God the Father and we existed with Him before coming to earth. 3. We have moral agency. 4. This mortal life is part of God's plan for us, whereby we can learn by our own experience the difference between good and evil, hopefully choose good, and where we gain bodies for ourselves. 5. The Fall of Adam and the Atonement of Jesus Christ make our resurrection and salvation possible. 6. All mankind can be saved in the Celestial kingdom of God, because of the Atonement, through the principles and ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 7. Those principles of the gospel include faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, and receiving all the holy priesthood ordinances necessary for salvation. 8. Husband and wife, and parents and children, can have their relationships endure through all eternity through the sealing power of the priesthood. 9. Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, who spoke face to face with both the Father and the Son, who are individual personages, and he also spoke to many other heavenly messengers. 10. The Church and priesthood authority of Jesus Christ were restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith, after a long period of apostasy. 11. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church upon the face of the earth with the proper priesthood authority to preach the gospel and perform the holy ordinances. 12. Since this restoration, the Church has been led by true prophets and apostles, and the current president of the Church, Thomas S. Monson, is a duly authorized servant of the Lord. Those are the fundamentals, and I attest to their contemporary and enduring validity in this Church. Regards, Vanhin

I think the way it is now in Finnish is correct and has the exact same meaning as it is in English. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints The Latter-day Saints' Jesus Christ's Church Myöhempien Aikojen Pyhien Jeesuksen Kristuksen Kirkko There is really no other way of saying it in Finnish. In Finnish you don't say the Church of Jesus Christ, you say Jesus Christ's Church. So, in order to make the connection that the church is of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day saints, you have to say it the way it is. :) I think it's correct, and Finnish is awesome! Regards, Vanhin

Awesome! You are welcome, and thank you. :) Sincerely, Vanhin

And further, Elder McConkie wrote all the chapter and section headings in the current version of the Standard Works (See LDS.org - Ensign Article - Elder Bruce R. McConkie: Preacher of Righteousness). Vanhin

Just to point this out again. Some Latter-day Saints may not be aware of it, but there are “false prophets” rising within and without the Church. They believe they have had revelations, that they know something the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles don’t know. We need to be very careful of such people. Members who are ever approached by anyone claiming special authority or revelation from God outside the sustained priesthood authority should turn and run from them as fast as they can. The Savior said that in the last days even the very elect could be pulled away from the truth by such false prophets. That is not talking about apostles, though obviously that can happen too. The quote is about anyone who would lead you astray, either within or without the Church who claim to know something the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles don't know, or claim to have revelation outside the sustained priesthood authority. Vanhin

Well I think anyone in the Church can be in a position to do damage. I see it from time to time, people claiming to have received revelations beyond what God has chosen to reveal to us through his prophets. We should prayerfully stick to orthodoxy, as found in the scriptures and the doctrines consistently taught in Church publications, and the words of the living prophet, even when discussing things out here. Sincerely, Vanhin

Welcome!

Yeppers. We do not believe in a deterministic God—that is, one who determines in advance the eventual fate of His children. Rather, we believe in a God who has perfect foreknowledge of the choices His children will make. He may use this foreknowledge to guide us or even to warn us, but He does not use it to preempt our agency. He allows us to become what we truly desire to become. As Elder James E. Talmage (1862–1933) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote: “[God] knows what each will do under given conditions, and sees the end from the beginning. His foreknowledge is based on intelligence and reason. He foresees the future as a state which naturally and surely will be; not as one which must be because He has arbitrarily willed that it shall be.” 1 Vanhin

Exactly, the veil is a protection mechanism, so that we have an opportunity to have faith and repent before the resurrection, and not constantly sin against the greater light. Later while yet in mortality, after one has been "born again" and received a remission of their sins, and all the holy ordinances of the gospel, our sphere is enlarged, as is our accountability. If we are true and faithful, we will be redeemed from the fall and admitted back into the presence of God, even before the resurrection. For those, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost will merit the reward of Satan. Regards, Vanhin

Oh, I see what you are getting at. Yes, I did use that rather imperfect example to make my point. In context, I said the following. The blemishes of mortality aside, the physical body has taken on the unique appearance of our immortal spirit and has added physical flesh and bone to our identity. Like putting on a tight glove, which conforms to the shape and characteristics of our hand. Obviously you have to add on top of that effects caused by our condition, or what I call "blemishes of mortality" in my quote above - whether it be disease, obesity, deformity, loss of limbs, scars from being burned, etc... I have more to say, but I will say it in conjunction with my answers to the rest of your post. Way bad analogy... If I agreed with you, I would say more like sitting inside a Mechwarrior (or the suit of armor analogy you used below). We already know that our bodies are in the likeness of our spirit, complete with hands and feet, head, mouth, and ears, and so forth. We know from revelation that the image of human bodies are in the likeness of the person of our spirits, which is in the image and likeness of God. ...that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created. (D&C 77:2) To the brother of Jared, who beheld that the finger of the Lord looked like a man's finger, the pre-mortal Jesus Christ revealed himself to him and said the following. Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh. (Ether 3:16) I realize and admit that mortality affects the look of our bodies in varying and profound ways, but I think even the most deformed individual in mortality carries characteristics in their likeness that would unequivocally identify them as the individual that they are in the spirit. But even if no semblance exists at all in such an individual, if the individual could be regenerated before our very eyes, they would end up looking like their very own spirit and be unique, and not clones, as you postulated in the beginning of this conversation. That is what I am arguing against. I take comfort in this discussion knowing that my stance is found all throughout the publications and curriculum of the Church, and in the statements of Church leaders. I think you would be in a better position if you could produce similar support for your point of view. I leave you with the following from a lesson in the current curriculum of the Church for primary aged children. I thought it was significant that the teacher is to have a "five fingered" glove, not a mitten or some other kind of glove. Display the wordstrip “Spirit.” Explain to the children that when we lived in heaven before we came to earth, we did not have physical bodies. We were spirits. • What is a spirit? Explain that our spirits are the part of us that make us alive. • What do you think your spirit looks like? Pass around a small mirror and have each child look into it. Ask the children if the mirror gives them any idea what their spirits look like. Explain that our spirits look like our physical bodies. For example, spirits have eyes, ears, arms, and legs. Object lesson Place a glove on the table. Explain that even though the glove is shaped like a hand, it cannot move like a hand because it is not alive. When a hand is placed in the glove, then the glove can move. Put your hand into the glove and wiggle your fingers. Explain that the glove is like a physical body, and the hand is like a spirit. Our bodies cannot move without our spirits inside them. Our spirits cannot be seen inside our bodies, just as the hand inside the glove cannot be seen. (See Boyd K. Packer, Teach Ye Diligently [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1975], pp. 231–33.) (LDS.org - Primary Chapter Detail - I Am a Child of God) I also think that those of us who are accountable for our actions in mortality, can and must have mastery over our bodies, in order to develop the kind of Christ-like character necessary for exaltation. Sincerely, Vanhin

Has God ever foreseen something, like consequences to a particular sin, but the outcome was altered because the person decided to do the right thing after all? Vanhin

Oh rubondfan2, it's okay to argue with me. :) Here's a little bit of tongue in cheek that you might appreciate in light of your post. "Well yeah sure bishop, I'm striving not to beat my wife any more... but I stopped smoking cigarettes!" Regards, Vanhin

Oh how I miss Elder Maxwell. Good thing we have some of his very insightful teachings available to us. Here is something he said about the matter. Our own intellectual shortfalls and perplexities do not alter the fact of God’s astonishing foreknowledge, which takes into account our choices for which we are responsible. Amid the mortal and fragmentary communiques and the breaking news of the day concerning various human conflicts, God lives in an eternal now where the past, present, and future are constantly before Him (see D&C 130:7). His divine determinations are guaranteed, since whatever He takes in His heart to do, He will surely do it (see Abr. 3:17). He knows the end from the beginning! (see Abr. 2:8). God is fully “able to do [His] … work” and to bring all His purposes to pass, something untrue of the best-laid plans of man since we so often use our agency amiss! (see 2 Ne. 27:20). (LDS.org - Liahona Article - Care for the Life of the Soul) Think about it for a minute. Because of that astonishing foreknowledge, God was able to prepare the completely relevant to our day book of scripture called the Book of Mormon. President Benson pointed that out. “Second, the Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ. It confounds false doctrines and lays down contention. (See 2 Ne. 3:12.) It fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies, and doctrines of the devil in our day. The type of apostates in the Book of Mormon are similar to the type we have today. God, with his infinite foreknowledge, so molded the Book of Mormon that we might see the error and know how to combat false educational, political, religious, and philosophical concepts of our time.” (Ensign, Jan. 1988, p. 3.) I actually think FunkyTown's answer is in harmony with the reality of this matter, only God's ability to look ahead is far more astonishing than ours. Regards, Vanhin

Well, seeing as I have really been addressing the matter of our identity in the various phases of our life from pre-mortal to immortal, and beyond, I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that we differ on how we view the relative influence of the spirit in mortality. I have no major quarrels with what you are saying in the above paragraph. Have I wrote something that made you think otherwise? I thought our main difference had to do with resurrected beings in the eternities and the status of individual identity and even our appearance. In any case, I think what you are talking about in your post is the development of character, which is developed by the process of overcoming the natural man and conforming our wills to the will of the Father. It is the perfect compliment to our eternal personalities and identity, and having Christ-like character is what I believe it means to receive God's image in our countenance. What is the crowning glory of man in this earth so far as his individual achievement is concerned? It is character—character developed through obedience to the laws of life as revealed through the gospel of Jesus Christ, who came that we might have life and have it more abundantly [see John 10:10]. Man’s chief concern in life should not be the acquiring of gold, or of fame, or of material possessions. It should not be the development of physical prowess, nor of intellectual strength, but his aim, the highest in life, should be the development of a Christ-like character. Character is built by adherence to principles. Character grows from within just as a tree grows, just as every living thing grows. There is no outward thing to be put on to make yourself beautiful; [products from] the drug store [help], it is true, but it is only superficial and temporary. Real beauty, as character, comes from within, and that which contributes to strength of character is in compliance with those principles enunciated by the Prophet Joseph, and by the Savior Himself: virtue, uprightness, holiness—keeping the commandments of God [see History of the Church, 5:134–35]. (LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Developing a Christlike Character) Regards, Vanhin

I think a more correct statement is that "Scripture is based on truth, and our acceptance of it should be based on faith." We may know many truths, and we may be in error about some things that we think are true, and we may not know the truth about everything. It is quite possible that some other phenomenon, unknown to us at this time, is responsible for allowing the Savior to walk on water than the ones you offered or any other explanation one might offer based on what we think we know about such things. Clearly the people of Christ's time did not know as much about the physical properties of water, and science as we do in our day, and it would not have made one difference in their ability to interpret scripture correctly and accept the truth on faith. The bottom line is that God performed a miracle, by walking on water. He was able to traverse the sea without a boat or a plane, and without swimming. What was the catalyst for allowing him to walk on water? The answer is in the scriptures in question. 28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. 29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? (Matthew 14:28-31) The catalyst is faith. Unwavering faith in the Lord Jesus Christ would have allowed Peter to continue walking on water. There is a great lesson in that which concerns the topic at hand, namely interpreting scripture. To fully understand what I mean we need to understand what faith is. Here's what the great teacher Alma said about faith. And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true. (Alma 32:21) We don't have to know how something works to have faith in it. It is good enough to simply recognize the truth, that Christ did walk on water, and that by faith in Christ, we can come to Him and walk the path that He walks. I don't need to know how the Atonement works, to have hope in the redemption from sin and death that it provides. I can step forward, in faith, by repenting of my sins and by making and keeping sacred covenants with the Lord, and I will find that my sins are washed away. Then I know, perfectly, the truth that through Christ I can be forgiven - something I only hoped for at first. But did I need to know how it works to arrive at the correct interpretation the scriptures that led me to repent? No, I only needed faith, which is a hope in things that I may not yet understand, which are nonetheless true. The scriptures are understood by revelation, which is a product of faith. Then we know for ourselves the truth. Regards, Vanhin

That sounds like me when I talk to my wife. "Woman, make me a sandwich!" In our culture at my house, it is an incredible sign of respect... for the woman to make me a sandwich. Which is exactly why she just rolls her eyes, shakes her head, and walks away. Vanhin

I agree with finding someone to hang out with who can show you things, and reasearching as much as you can on your own. Before the requirement of training and licenses to hunt and to bear arms, it was your father, brother, uncle, or someone like that who taught you to use a firearm, and you were as free to keep and bear arms as you were to speak. You don't have to have a license or any kind if training to purchase a firearm in Colorado (that's where I live). If you buy from a dealer they are required to do a quick FBI background check before selling you the firearm. If you buy from a private party, all you need is to be eligible to own a firearm and to be a resident in Colorado. Here is a great place to see what is available in private party sales in the state. www.ColoGunMarket.com :: View Category - Private Party Firearms While you are trying to figure out hunting, buy some guns and ammo, and go out to Pawnee Grasslands or Roosevelt National Forest and shoot some targets. Respect the land where you shoot, clean up your mess, and follow the rules. Arapaho & Roosevelt National Forests Pawnee NG - Target Shooting Also, in Colorado you do not need a permit to keep a handgun in your car, either concealed or not concealed. Like many places in America, you can also carry openly in Colorado without a permit, with some restrictions. Check this out. FAQ Colorado Firearms Laws Regards, Vanhin

I have seen a good bit of flexibility and leniency with Word of Wisdom issues and how various bishops and stake presidents handle the situation. In the grand scheme of things, WoW issues are really the low man on the totem pole - except in really extreme cases. I think the following question covers a pretty broad spectrum, that includes many things people struggle with on a daily basis. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church? That doesn't just mean serious spousal or child abuse. It means anything that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church. And this one. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel? Both of those together would cover the issues mightynancy was referring to. Regards, Vanhin

Or a recently returned man from inactivity who mentioned in Gospel Principles class that the bishop told him to just let his coffee cool down... You should have heard all the, "I know what I am going to do when I get home" comments I heard. Vanhin

I've heard some crazy stuff. For instance, someone I know tells me about a woman in his ward who went to the pulpit in testimony meeting to testify that she was molested in the spirit world. How's that for a missionary nightmare... The bishop had to ask her to sit down. Vanhin

Because our identity is not a mortal phenomenon. What I am trying to point out is that the identity of our person is not from here. Each of us has a unique identity that is associated with our spirits, even prior to receiving bodies of flesh. The blemishes of mortality aside, the physical body has taken on the unique appearance of our immortal spirit and has added physical flesh and bone to our identity. Like putting on a tight glove, which conforms to the shape and characteristics of our hand. I don't know why you think that identity is bad or that it should ever change. Our identity cannot be changed any more than our gender can be changed, which is itself an eternal part of our true identity. If you could see all the spirits that are still waiting to enter mortality, you would see each as a unique individual, in the form of men and women, each with their own identity. They are in their prime, having developed over an unspecified amount of eternity until they have reached their full stature as spirits. When our resurrected bodies are regenerated fully, they will conform to the perfect likeness of our own spirit. Deformity will be removed; defects will be eliminated, and men and women shall attain to the perfection of their spirits, to the perfection that God designed in the beginning. (LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Jesus Christ Redeems All Mankind from Temporal Death) Obviously you have to come to terms with these things however you will, according to the direction your conscience takes you. But that is what I am saying in a nutshell. Regards, Vanhin

Besides, maybe FunkyTown is his sonny... They obviously have a relationship of some sort. Funky even quotes dorave in his signature... :)

Yeah, I thought it was funny in 2002 when the First Presidency letter was read in our ward, that everyone seemed to only focus on the "children" issue. That part of the letter was focused on more instead of the part about the adults learning to express "a brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, His teachings, and the Restoration" instead of frendimonies and travel/health logs. There was a brief overreaction when children were discouraged from getting up in fast in testimony meeting, meanwhile the adults continued with the non-testimonies as usual. I honestly never thought the children were a problem. They know how to bear a testimony. Here's a link to the letter for anyone who is interested. LDS Church News - Express brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior Regards, Vanhin