Finrock

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Everything posted by Finrock

  1. Hi apollyon! I was going to link to the article rameumptom linked to, but he beat me to it. Perhaps it is helpful to you. It might be helpful for others to read the article as well so they can have the proper context to respond to what rameumptom is stating. Regards, Finrock
  2. Good evening apollyon! It is a pleasure to meet you. I hope you are having a good day today. :) I want to say that I am struck with awe by your courage to speak about this and by your courage to stay true to the gospel. I don't know much of anything, much less about what it means to be in your situation, but I have struggled with addictions in my life and what has been the most damaging to me, particularly during the times when I have fallen...yet again...has been me letting go of hope. There is always hope and never let go of it. I also don't think it is absurd for you to hope to one-day meet a woman who will accept you for who you are, weaknesses and all. In that respect, we all have to learn this skill when it comes to our spouses. I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't always recognized this trait in my wife, but through-out the years, she has stuck with me despite the damage my actions have done. So, I know there are people out there who are able to see others for their potential rather than just seeing their weaknesses or flaws (clarification: I am speaking about me being flawed, not you). I guess that is my message. There is always hope, never let go of it. With Respect, Finrock
  3. Where I Stand Here is where I stand. You might agree with me, you might not agree with me, or you might be uncertain. I'm primarily addressing those who agree with me and those who might be uncertain. Those who disagree with me on this point already know where they stand and they have made their choice and I don't presume to be able to change their minds. My personal history has shown me that the more I write, the more I confuse others. I try to write less. To keep it simple, straightforward, and to the point. This post will be an exception and it will likely cause more questions and more confusion than it will provide any clarification. However, there is always the hope that it will strike a chord with the right someone, somewhere. If nothing else it will be a testimony as to where I stand. When it comes to the gospel of Jesus Christ, whether I am online or speaking to someone face to face, I am not debating or conversing with others to stroke my ego, or to practice my linguistic skills, or to demonstrate my knowledge of the gospel, or to score rhetorical points, or anything like that. I'm not here to be popular. I have no hidden agenda and I have no desire to hurt or harm anyone in any way. To be clear, I am making no implications about others. I'm simply clarifying where I stand. To understand where I stand it is important to understand that the issue here for me is not so much whether Elder McConkie's words are true or not. I know that they are true. I do not intend to get in to a debate about whether Elder McConkie spoke the truth in his speech. That issue is settled for me. As far as I'm concerned, there is no controversy. I am under no obligation, and I feel no obligation, to prove Elder McConkie's words. This isn't about Elder McConkie the person, but Elder McConkie an apostle. I am not defending my favorite apostle. I really have no favorite apostle. In fine, this is more about the office of an apostle and what it means to the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I believe that we are here on this earth solely because Heavenly Father designed a plan for us. We have no other real purpose. Heavenly Father's plan encompasses all truth and everything that is of significance, that is important, and that is good. Anything that is contrary to God's plan must be rejected because it is nonsensical. God has given us everything and without him we truly are "less than the dust of the earth". Amongst other things, God appointed leaders who have been given priesthood authority and priesthood keys to direct the affairs of God on this earth. These we sometimes call the Lord's anointed. The members of the First Presidency and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve are all apostles and they are all the Lord's anointed. They have been given the keys of the ministry and the keys to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is their duty to teach, to expound, to correct, and to clarify the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When anyone, but particularly when members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, takes upon themselves the mantle to publicly correct the apostles, they are usurping authority that they do not have and they are placing themselves in jeopardy. But, not only that, they may also become a stumbling block to others in the gospel or those who are investigating it. It is not our place to say that an apostle taught incorrect doctrine or that they "crossed the line" particularly when there is nothing to suggest that the apostles words have been superseded by those who have the authority to do so. To me it is presumptuous, it is disrespectful, and it is tinged with pride. I offer my view as a counter to what can only be described as blasphemy. An apostle can and has been superseded, but only by those who have the keys and authority to do so. No one on this internet forum has those keys and I testify against anyone who would either implicitly or explicitly presume to take upon themselves that office. It just seems that sometimes people are too quick to reject the words of an apostle if it doesn't fit their personal understanding of the gospel or the doctrine, and they do so as if it is of no consequence. It sometimes seems that people believe that we can pick and choose which apostle we'll believe and when. I testify that it is no light thing to say that an apostle is leading the church astray. We ought to exercise great caution and extreme care in these matters. These are grave and serious issues. Who and what we choose to believe has eternal consequences. I testify that we ought to defer to the words of the apostles rather than to our own private interpretations, especially when our private interpretations are contrary to the words of an apostle. But, even if we feel we have some special knowledge, it is wholly inappropriate for a member of God's church to publicly teach and encourage their personal views. It is even more inappropriate to do so by encouraging other members to reject the words of God's apostle. It creates a clear line: Accept my personal interpretation or accept the words of God's apostle. In this thread, the choice for me is clear. I choose to reject the words of rameumptom over rejecting the words of God's apostle and I encourage everyone, everywhere, to heed the words of God's apostles and seek to understand them rather than to heed the words of those who would presume to know a better gospel or a better doctrine or who might be encouraging us to not believe the words of an apostle. The warning that God has given us on this matter is clear: "14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people; 15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant; 16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall (D&C 1:14-16)" This is my last post on this thread simply because I do not have anything more that I can add. If you agree with me, if you disagree with me, or if you still don't know for sure where you stand, I will always respect your agency. Regards, Finrock
  4. Good afternoon carlimac. I hope you are having a good weekend! :) I have no qualms about you disagreeing with me. I'm testifying more than I am debating. You will either agree or disagree and in that respect it matters not to me. But your disagreement must not be because I have stated that apostles are infallible, or that I even implied it. I do not or have I ever advocated that apostles are infallible. Regards, Finrock
  5. Hi rameumptom! You've inferred and then attributed concepts to my words that do not reflect what I actually wrote. Other than to clarify the misrepresentation of my words, I have nothing further to add to what I have already stated. Because I do not recognize your authority to supersede the words of God's apostle does not mean that I "hold onto the words of dead prophets and apostles more than the words of living ones". Neither do I find any contradiction to what is taught today and what Elder McConkie taught in his talk. I mean no offense, rameumptom. Regards, Finrock
  6. Good afternoon rameumptom! I hope you are having a good day. :) Although I can understand what it is that you are saying and I can even understand why you might feel the way that you do, at the end of the day I'm forced to concede the following fact: I recognize and sustain Bruce R. McConkie as one who has been set apart by the laying on of hands by those having authority to be an apostle and one who has priesthood keys to teach, clarify, and expound the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I do not recognize or sustain you as one who has authority or priesthood keys to supersede the words of the Lord's anointed. Therefore, I must reject your words in this post and I would encourage anyone else to do the same. Respectfully, Finrock
  7. A pleasure. :) But that is not really the question or the real issue. The real question and the real issue is: Can a homosexual couple love and support a child the way God wants that child to be loved and supported? They cannot. This isn't my claim. My claim is that homosexual couples are incapable of loving and supporting a child the way God wants. What other criteria could possibly supersede what God wants? What else is more important in this life? Who has a better plan for his children? Who knows what is best for a child better than God does, the Father of us all? No need to answer the questions for my sake as I'm not trying to condemn you or even necessarily to convince you. They are presented for you to ponder and think about. I respect your perspective and I understand what it is you are saying. With Kindness, Finrock
  8. You're welcome. I reject the dichotomy. There are always other options. Broken secular systems do not invalidate God's plan. Regards, Finrock
  9. We are talking about Heavenly Father's children and He (God) has decreed that his children are entitled to be born and raised in homes to a mother and a father who are lawfully married. He also wants all of his children to know, accept, and live the great Plan of Happiness he has created for us. We are here because of that plan and because of that plan only. If a child is entitled to be born and raised in a home with a mother and a father who are lawfully married then the character of the homosexual couple becomes irrelevant. The child is always going to be better served if they are raised in a family where there is a loving mother and a loving father who are lawfully married and who live the gospel of Jesus Christ. I could not in good conscious be party to a scenario where my actions might deny a child this opportunity. I would not vouche for them because it doesn't fit God's pattern, the moral character of the couple notwithstanding. The Plan of Salvation is the only plan approved by Heavenly Father. It is the only way. The homosexual couple does not have the ability to love and support the child the way God wants the child to be loved and supported because the homosexual couple is living a plan/pattern that is not sanctioned by God. What the adoption agency believes, feels or thinks that is contrary to God's plan in this matter is irrelevant. Regards, Finrock
  10. Younger Finrock was an idiot and had all sorts of ridiculous criteria for a potential spouse. Older Finrock is still an idiot but now I'm beginning to realize that, in the end, the only thing that really, really matters is how dedicated my wife and I are to following Heavenly Father's plan. That dedication to God and to his commandments encompasses everything that is of significance in this life and in the life to come. Regards, Finrock
  11. Hi Bini! I hope you are having a great day. :) The Family: A Proclamation To The World is one source of doctrine that addresses this subject without ambiguity. "The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity" (emphasis added). Regards, Finrock
  12. Good afternoon Traveler. I hope you are having a good day. :) I not sure I understand what you are implying but studying the scriptures is something that I do and as I've done that I've learned God's mind, will, and desires for my life. When I diligently, prayerfull, and consistently read the scriptures then I am lead to know what to do, what say, and how to act. It's why I diligently, prayerfully, and consistently read and study the scriptures. It is an absolute fact that God has commanded us to read and study the scriptures. When I do this commandment I have come to know that it is good and of God because it blesses my life. I feel the Spirit. My family is happier. I'm happier. I feel more confident in knowing how to conduct my life. Because of these blessing and other evidences I know that diligently, prayerfully, and consistenly reading the scirptures is good and of God. If you doubt or haven't experienced this then I invite you to do something: I invite you to diligently, prayerfully, and consistently to study the scriptures so that you too can know that it is a commandment from God and that it is good and that it will immensely bless your life. May God bless you in your diligent efforts to obey his commandments. Respectfully, Finrock
  13. In answer to the orignal post. I don't know exactly why different people reject the idea that Jesus was married. There are many reasons, seemingly. I remember when I first heard the idea as a young man; and the truth is that I remember at the time the idea was shocking to me because I simply had never considered it before. Also, in hindsight, I understand that the idea was shocking to me because I didn't understand marriage or the sealing hardly at all. My understanding of the plan of salvation was also very poor. I did not have a proper undrestanding of the nature of God and of our relationship to him. Today, based on my current understand of the sealing, of the plan of salvation, and of the nature of God and our relationship to him, I have no problems with the thought. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying that my understanding is necessarily right and that I have some special knowledge, but, to me it seems natural and right, even glorious. At the same time, as many have expressed already for themselves, I don't dwell on the idea and it is most definately only a peripheral belief. Regards, Finrock
  14. Good evening Ijustforgotit. I hope you are well. :) I think young women should be taught that they ought to settle for nothing less than a temple marriage with a worthy man who honors his priesthood. I also don't think it is fair that people should be defined solely by their mistakes or flaws, particularly if they have repented and are currently worthy to enter the temple and are honoring their priesthood. Respectfully, Finrock
  15. Studying the scriptures is very important. In fact, studying the scriptures is necessary for us to completely understand God and his desires for us. When I diligently and consistently study the scriptures it invariably draws me closer to Heavenly Father. It teaches me of his ways. It allows me to see examples of how I should react when faced with a given situation. I have received inspiration on how to act, what to say, what to do, and how to be about things that are relevant to me today. It invites the Spirit in to my life and this allows me to receive revelation to guide my decisions and to better understand his word. Respectfully, Finrock
  16. Hi pam. I hope you are enjoying your evening. :) Oh, I wasn't saying they had weird answers just because. What I mean is that I think the current consensus reaction to the OP's experience is weird. Being that I am not in the consensus then perhaps I'm the weird one. :) However, I will never think, given the scenario provided by the OP, that getting angry in that situation is normal. I'm happy that the store accomdates religious beliefs. I have always appreciated work places that have respected my religious beliefs and accomodated them (by not requiring me to work Sundays, for instance). I am sincerely sorry to anyone that I offended. Respectfully, Finrock
  17. Hi beefche. I hope you are doing well. :) I'm only quoting your post because it seems to be representative of a consensus here. Weird answers. I'd move along and get on with my life. Regards, Finrock
  18. Hi NikiB. Welcome to the forums. I hope you are doing well! :) To me this is a no brainer. Your relationship with Heavenly Father is the most important thing in this life for you and for your child. You are essentially here to learn to follow him and to make good choices. Amongts other things, you and your family (including your boyfriend) are missing out on the blessing of the temple. The sealing power is real and it's importance cannot be overstated. You must find a way to make the sacrifices necessary in order to repent and come back to the fold. With God's help, you will find a way. You deserve more, your boyfriend deserves more, and so does your child. I invite you to read or re-read the The Family: A Proclamation to the World. I've quoted a section from it that I think is relevant. Hopefully you will find some direction in these prophetic words from God's prohpets. In the end, "do what is right and let the consequence follow." I've always understood the words of that hymn to mean that when we do what is right, we can't go wrong. When we are obedient to God's commandments we can be assured that whatever else happens, we will be on the Lord's side and that is where we want to be. May God give you the strength to choose the right. With Respect, Finrock
  19. Good afternoon Seminarysnoozer. I hope you've had a good day. :) My post doesn't exlcude choice or agency. My post says that genetic determinism is false. Bluedreams posts confirms what I wrote and gives a bit more detail. Respectfully, Finrock
  20. Hi dahlia. I hope you are doing well! :) Here are a few suggestions to do on Sundays. Service. Have a plan each week to do some service for another on Sunday. Get to know a new person in your neighborhood. Visiting/Home Teaching: I do ALL of my home teaching for the month on Sundays. Check out the suggestions from the Family Home Evening Resource book here. Also, consider going over the Gospel Principles lesson again about the Sabbath day. I've quoted a section from it for your convenience below: Regards, Finrock
  21. Question: Why are you ladies even bothering with garryw? He doesn't know what he is saying. Regards, Finrock
  22. Good afternoon Flavius. I hope you are doing well. :) I just wanted to say that I read your post and I appreciate your perspective. Respectfully, Finrock
  23. Hi Bini! I hope you are having a good day today. :) My comments may or may not add to what has already been written in this thread but I provide my input in the event it does add something helpful to your understanding. There are two important aspects about the priesthood to understand. There is priesthood authority and there is priesthood power. We can have authority but have no power. Priesthood authority comes by the laying on of hands. Priesthood power comes from obedience and the righteous exercise of priesthood authority. Any person who has received the priesthood can have more authority than one who has not, but God has said that we can lose our authority when we act unrighteously. Anyone, in the most general sense, can receive power from God to act and to do, but priesthood authority and priesthood power are uniquely LDS things. No other organization on this earth has the priesthood. Aaronic priesthood holders can exercise the priesthood only within the bounds set by God. They would not be authorized, for instance, to give priesthood blessings. However, Aaronic priesthood authority and power are real and the righteous exercise of this priesthood will bless the life of the one exercising the priesthood and the lives of those the priesthood holder is serving. One final note, priesthood power is really just the power to bless others. It is God's power, wielded by righteous men, to bring about God's purposes here on this earth which purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and the eternal life of mankind. Regards, Finrock
  24. Good afternoon skoshmom! I hope you are doing well. :) Before I give you my "advice" let me provide some context. In my ward there are roughly 400 members with perhaps 100 members who are active. In elders quorum we have six companionships, each companionship is assigned 6 to 8 families. We probably don't even have half of the families assigned hometeachers because we don't have the man power to do it. Many, many of our members live beneath the poverty line. There are many needs to fill in our Ward. Please understand that you and your husband are not alone in this struggle. Below, I have provided some things that have helped me with my hometeaching. As hard as it might be, try not to judge these families and/or individuals. The wounds of sin are real even though we cannot see them like we can see physical wounds. There are people in this world who don't even know they need to be healed. We can pray to be able to see people as God sees them. We cannot control how others act but we can control how we act. There is no need for us to be taken advantage of, I am not suggesting that, but I am suggesting that if you place your burdens before the Lord, he will provide a solution. The solution isn't going to be magical and it likely isn't going to be instant. It will likely be a struggle and it will likely test your faith; but I am learning that as we take a chance and just give up on these foolish notions we sometimes feel are so important and just allow God to work through us, then I have begun to see that God will give us the power to do good and to bring about much righteousness. I don't know what the specific solution is but I do know that the solution is found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So, look to the scriptures for examples on how to deal with people who seem to have hardened their hearts or are just too lost to see. Home teaching is the ever present struggle within much of the church and we have to find a way to do it the Lord's way. Regards, Finrock
  25. Good afternoon Heber13. Thank you for the compliments. I hope you are doing well! :) I understand what you are saying and for the most part I agree. I agree that God prepares a way for His children to accept his gospel and to live by its precepts. I don't agree that God prepares a way for his children to choose how they wish to live the gospel and then live by the precepts they have chosen to follow. I totally agree that God will exercise mercy and justice with perfection in judging us and that our hearts and our desires will either condemn us or justify us. There is, however, a subtle equivocation going on in what you are stating. I think where you err is in supposing that because God allows people a chance to accept and live the gospel outside of mortality that they are somehow exempt from the necessary ordinances of the gospel. It is important to make clear that from a Mormom frame of reference Mormonism is "God's way". So, to say that Mormonism isn't the only way is to say that God's way isn't the only way. God's way is the only way. The scripture you quote says that those who did not have a chance to receive but would have received the gospel, given the chance, will be saved in the Celestial Kingdom. The inference is clearly that they must accept the gospel of Jesus Christ, which gospel is found in it's totality with all it's saving ordinances, only within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a.k.a., Mormonism. Also, there are at least three degrees in the Celestial Kingdom and this scripture doesn't necessarily speak to exaltation. The scriptures are telling us that people will be given the opportunity to accept the gospel and to have the saving ordinances done for them, either in this life or in the next or some other time. Regards, Finrock