Finrock

Hi anatess! I hope you are doing well. :) I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your post. I do want to clarify something about your post in case you or others thought that what you wrote reflected my experiences, feelings, and/or thoughts. Based upon the content of your post, your post does not reflect my experiences, feelings, or thoughts. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon Backroads! I hope you are doing well today. :) Another option to consider is to not take the job. Of course I don't know your circumstances so I don't know if this is possible. However, reason tells me that there has got to be other jobs your husband can take for a year that is more flexible with working on Sundays. In my experience I have always been able to turn down a job that requires me to work Sundays because I have always been able to find a job that provides similar benefits and pay to the job I turned down except that it doesn't require Sunday work or it doesn't require Sunday work on a regular basis. These experiences have shown me that at least in my life God will provide a way for me to keep the sabbath day free so that I can attend church and keep his commandment to keep the sabbath holy and to perform God's work on Sundays. Because God has done these things for me, I assume that he is capable and willing do these things for others. Regards, Finrock

When this topic comes up I think a very common mistake in reasoning that is made by many people is to assume that there is a dichotomy here and reality must either be evolution or not. There are many false dichotomies that people present when the reality is that there is no theory (and I mean scientific theory, not layman theory) that has sufficient data behind it to say that we now have sufficient answers and this is almost certainly the truth. We also have the scriptures and what they say about the creation of man. We ought not to reject scripture due to science (or due to anything, for that matter) but at the same time, we need to be careful that we don't add or take away from scripture just to support our own pet theory or to bolster up our own beliefs. I guess my point is that in the end, true science and true religion will always be in agreement. This is the part where we must have faith. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon FormalMan! It is a pleasure to meet you. :) I don't think a healthy marriage is a codependent marriage. I also do not think that equating our relationship with Heavenly Father with codependency is correct. Codepency implies a negative relationship and it requires two parties that are dependent on each other. Although Heavenly Father joys in our righteous decisions and loves a humble heart, I don't think ultimately his station, his happiness, or his being is dependent on our actions or what we are. I certainly don't view my marriage as one of codependency. I think love and desire are what constitutes a healthy foundation to a marriage. Codependency, by definition, implies a relationship that is built on necessity rather than will or desire. Love for someone means our desires are for their best interest and therefore our actions are because of agency and not necessity. I believe that if your relationship is codependent in nature than this isn't necessarily evil or bad but I do believe that this is just a rung on the ladder to a fully realized relationship with your spouse. I think there is room to move beyond codepency to a relationship where we aren't forcing our wills to align with our spouses but rather that we desire to do so freely because of our love for them! Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon cryophil! You do realize that just because you are a physicist and just because you say that science has "dispelled" something doesn't make it so? Not only that, many of your arguments are framed in a way that doesn't represent the actual view of Latter-day Saints or the arguments represent a personal interpretation of a belief. In other words, your arguments are using strawman arguments and then when you "smash" the strawman, you parade around the forums as if you've demonstrated your point! Proof by assertion, strawman arguments, and an appeal to authority are fallacious forms of reasoning. All of those points are a part of very common anti-Mormon literature and they have been addressed by many people, ad nauseum, across the world and you can find answers to your supposed "dispelled" proofs by doing a little studying and by listening to the folks who are addressing you here. It is fun to have a discussion and to even question things about our religion but it should be done with an eye of faith AND with real intent. On the other hand, when you see a person who repeatedly employs fallacious forms of reasoning in their arguments then you are forced to question whether that person is approaching the questions with faith and with real intent or are they motivated by other purposes. When this happens the discussion loses its appeal because reasoning with someone who is being intentionally irrational is a waste of time, for everyone involved. I suspect that you aren't interested in knowing the truth, or even having questions answered. I suspect that you are more interested in justifying your life decision to abandon faith and follow the arm of flesh. Regards, Finrock

Pretty much. Satan rebelled against God in the full light of day, so to speak. There was no "excuse" for his rebellion. We live by faith until we know and once we know, we no longer require faith. But, just because we know one thing doesn't mean that we know all things and we shouldn't give up on faith. We continue to exercise faith until the perfect day when we will know all things with a perfect knowledge. Until then, because of faith, we are allowed to make mistakes and then be forgiven for them through the atonement of Jesus Christ. Without faith, it is impossible for us to progress. So, this is another reason why faith is the first principle. It is necessary for learning and for progression and this is true in all cases (whether the subject matter be science, grammer, math, biology, whatever.) I don't understand this point. Meaning, I'm not sure I see how what you describe and what I describe are similar or related. Are you stating that the view on faith that I shared from Alma 32 can be disregarded based on what you've posted? Can you and will you please clarify? I see from your other posts to other folks here that you've moved on from the original question and it is apparent that you have some other underlying concern with the gospel and the question on faith was just a starting point. I guess I'm curious to know if you've already come up with some conclusions and you are simply trying to validate them or are you sincerely lacking in knowledge and are seeking to know and understand something that you simply cannot understand ? Or perhaps some other reason(s)? Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon Hahnzee! I hope you are doing well. :) My experiences don't necessarily apply to others but I do know that you can start a family immediately and still go to school, still work and provide, and still be able to have a happy and wonderful family. I think the general supposition is that one must already have an established career or done with schooling before it is wise to have a family. I'm not sure where this supposition came from and why this has been elevated to the status of some sort of universal truth. Everyone's circumstances will be slightly different and so we work out our lives as best we can while we shoot for the goals that God has set for us. We aren't always going to be able to do things exactly as God has prescribed but we should never forget the principles that we ought to be aiming for. It is a fact that God commanded a husband and wife to be fruitful and multiply. In so doing, God empowered us to be able to fulfill this commandment because God gives no commandment unless he provides a way for us to accomplish it. Furthermore, God's purpose AND his glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of mankind. As disciples, we make covenants to assist God in this work. We, therefore, are bound by commandment and by other covenants to help guide God's children back to him. There is no better place to accomplish this than in the home and with our children. So, instead of looking at children simply as a burden, our vision ought to be extended so that we see them as they really are: Our brothers and sisters over whom we have temporary stewardship over. The way I view it is that I am thrilled and overjoyed to be able to take part in housing a spirit on this earth with a physical body and having them be born in to the covenant, with automatic access to the restored gosple of Jesus Christ! Roughly 10 months after getting married we had our first kid and we've had four more since then. Through-out it all I've attended college full-time (I took a couple of years break from school but am now attending again full-time), I've worked full-time, I've done my church callings, and I've been able to gain meaningful employment. We've always had everything that we need and so very much of the things we want too. On top of that, the intervening years have been filled with so many blessings that I know we could not have enjoyed had we not had our children with us along for the ride! True, my schooling has been delayed, but that hasn't prevented me from being able to properly support my family. And, perhaps I've missed out on some other things, but, to be honest, I don't know any better. My life after high school and mission has been family and it has brought me great joy. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon cryophil! I hope you are doing well today. :) I can think of no better lecture on faith than found in the Book of Mormon. Please read Alma Chapter 32. It answers the basic reasons as to why faith and not some other method. One of the reasons that hasn't been mentioned and which I think is a significant reason as to why we are to live by faith is found in Alma 32:17-19 which reads: "17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe. 18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it. 19 And now, how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?" If you note in verse 19 Alma is teaching what I believe is the idea that requiring us to live by faith was an act of mercy. Having a perfect knowledge of something does not make us immune to committing sin. So imagine how much more responsible we are for our actions if we have a perfect knowledge of the truth and still break God's laws? That we are required to live by faith allows God to exercise a greater degree of mercy when we do break a law that we are trying to live by faith. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon mhsmd! It is a pleasure to meet you. I hope you are having a great day. :) First, if what you describe about your husband is true, then I would agree that such behavior appears selfish and immature. Obviously, I don't know all of the facts, so I want to be careful in making any final judgements. This applies to my comments about your husband and you. I simply have your posts to reference and so my comments are based off of them. The first thing I felt after reading your post was this: If I were your husband, I would sit you down and tell you that you need to please stop nagging me and pestering me about all of my faults. In your post you mentioned some history with past boyfriend and your father being emotionally abusive. Why did you feel like you were emotionally abused by your ex-boyfriend and father? Are you doing the same thing to your current husband? Because perhaps the answer isn't to be so critical, but, to be more compassionate. A constant stream of criticism will not help build up your husband. It will not help his self-esteem. It will not motivate him. It will not produce the results you very much desire. The scriptures speak of how we should exercise the priesthood but I think the counsel is just as valid for women as it is to men when it comes to how we should approach our relationship with others. No power or influence ought to be maintained or exercised through unrighteous means, but only "by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy" (D&C 121:41-43). I know it seems like a one-way street, but that is sometimes the way of charity. We give without expecting anything in return. I can think of no greater power to change men's lives (and women's) than the gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel of Jesus Christ exemplified in your life is a powerful tool to help bringing people up from the muck, so to speak. You are not alone. You have the scriptures. You have prayer. These two concepts are repeated so often and they are heard so often that we might be desensitized, so to speak, to the grand blessings that they are. I don't know what the answers to your situation are. My post is simply intended to share with you my thoughts and perhaps my thoughts will strike a chord with you and help you to come to some resolution that is right. I do know this, however: Whatever I have done in life has been done best when I have been living the gospel of Jesus Christ and applying its precepts in my life. Obedience qualifies us for the Spirit and the Spirit will enhance everything we do in life. Everything! So, work to have the Spirit in your life and you will be amazed to see how your life changes AND how your husband will change because you have changed for the better. Although this may not "fix" your husband, at least you will be in a position to be guided and directed by the Holy Ghost and then "...shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God..." and "[t]he Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion" (D&C 121:45, 46). Regards, Finrock

You're welcome and it's more like a blaring horn than chiming in. OK, thanks for clarifying. Well, this is my advice. You should know that God does not require you to "run faster than [you have] strength". That doesn't excuse you from action, however, because "it is expedient that [you] should be diligent, that thereby [you] might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order" (Mosiah 4:27). God expects us to seek after all good and wholesome things. He has directed us to be self-sufficient and to be prepared. Through his prophets, God has commanded us to have food storage. So, should you have food storage? Yes, because you should follow God's commandments and because it is a good idea just on a pratical, preparedness level. But, you start small. One step at a time. And, most of all, don't worry about what other's might think of your efforts. Just be true to yourself and to God and all will work out fine. My overarching point is this: Try to live the principles that you know the best that you can, relying on the Spirit to overcome your shortcomings. It is imperative for progression in the gospel that we forfeit or give up (like purging the erotica from your Kindle) our false or unrighteous or sinful or incorrect traditions and lifestyles and replace them with correct traditions, correct lifestyle choices, and correct principles. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon JessiePadGirl! :) I hope you are doing well. If I understand your concern correctly, I think your concern is that over the years your family has adjusted to things and ways to accomodate the demands of life, and you are worried that what the Church might require of you is in conflict with what you are use to doing? Let me know, please, if I'm on the right track. Kind Regards, Finrock

This is one of the trials of our faith as members of the Church. We get callings and we sustain callings knowing that all of us fall short in at least one way but probably more. However, we qualify for the work by having a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Now, think about this for a second. The Spirit knows all things. He understands the situation of all people, everyewhere, in all times. Single, married, whatever. The Relief Society president, as a person, could be completely ignorant to the plight and situation of single members of the Church, but if she lives her life so as the Spirit will be with her, then the Spirit will enhance her knowledge, enhance her feelings, and she will know how to act towards single members because she will be led by the Spirit in this thing and not her intellect or reason. We must trust that those who God has called to be a leader will be lead by the Spirit. And if that is the case, then we need not worry what the background of the person is. Regards, Finrock

Hi mrmarklin. I hope you are having a good day! :) Well, that may be true. However, if she has asperger's syndrome or something to that effect, her mind then processes data differently than neuro typical people. She may then act in a way that appears selfish, even though she isn't being that way. That is why it is so important to rule such things out or to confirm them because if neither person knows then the NT person will think their spouse is just being a jerk and selfish and the spouse who may be struggling with some neuro disorder can begin to believe that they just are horrible people because they don't feel the same type of connection and empathy that NT people do. It's simply something to consider. I'm making no diagnosis or even pretending to do so. Regards, Finrock

Hi One thing to consider is that your wife may have a disorder or syndrome. Much of what you describe about your wife sounds a bit like asperger's syndrome. If true she may not be able to understand where her flaws are. Not without proper help. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon krcp! I hope you are doing well. :) To me it is absolutely amazing that such a seemingly small thing as reading the scriptures and praying daily can so powerfully affect the basic path our lives take, whether good or bad. But, amazing or not, it is true that reading the scriptures and praying daily can change your life. The gospel is wonderful! Regards, Finrock

Hi Maiku! I hope you are doing well tonight. :) Like others have mentioned, the Branch President is authorized to make these judgments for those who fall under his jurisdiction. One evidence of this is in your post in that the person affected by this has already benefited from the Branch President's counsel. In my view, it isn't our place to question this counsel. Regards, Finrock

Good evening krcp! I hope you are doing well tonight. :) Very nice! I gotcha. I misunderstood you. Thanks for clearing it up. And, that is a very good route to go together. I was just thinking about this, this Sunday, that how much those around us can either help us or hinder us in our spiritual progression. It's particularly true when it comes to spouses who are on very different spiritual "levels". When both spouses are living in relative sin they have the connection and commonality of sin. However, if one spouse decides to move up and out of sin and the other one doesn't, it can be difficult on many levels. In any case, I just am more writing to show that I empathize with your situation and hope that over time it improves. Regards, Finrock

Good evening krcp! :) The best thing I know to say is that if you haven't already, make the decision to latch on to the Church with all of your heart and believe that it is the church of Jesus Christ. Once you've made that decision, live your life so that your husband will see and feel how this gospel has brought you closer to Heavenly Father. You can't entertain the thought that if you explore your weaknesses together that you will somehow have the strength to come back to the light. Regards, Finrock

Hi Shoot_The_Moon! :) I don't want to get bogged down in semantics and logic, but it seems to me that the statement quoted is taking the meaning of the phrase "letter of the law" and is simply renaming it "spirit of the law". It seems to me that the spirit of the law speaks more to who someone is and less to some specific boundry. When you start speaking of specific boundries, you are speaking about the letter of the law. To fulfill my purpose here on earth the only thing I must do is be good. I guess my point is that what I do is less important than what I am and I believe this applies in this situation as well. Adaptations speak to actions but if we focus on the specific action I believe we are missing the point. I can wave my hand with a heart full of hate or I can wave my hand with a heart full of love. The action is irrelevant from an ethical perspective because its ethical value is determined by the condition of my heart. Our adaptations in life are either good or they are bad and in almost all cases whether they are good or bad depends upon who we are rather than what we are doing. As a point of clarification, I also believe that there are a few things that you can do that are always absolutely evil. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon all! :) I think if we are at all capable in anyway of fulfilling our duties (whatever they may be) and if we abdicate those duties (in whatever way) we will be held accountable. It would seem to be impossible to identify all of the diverse ways that "adaptations" can be applied so getting a definitive answer to your questions may not be reasonable. Perhaps be satisfied knowing that God is fair, reasonable, loving, just, and merciful and so he will judge us absolutely correctly. Elder Condie (1st Seventy) once taught on my mission that God, through the Church, provides us principles to live by. Condie compared principles to triangles. He said our goal is to conform our lives as closely to a triangle as possible, however, depending on our condition we might only muster a feeble scrawl but this feeble scrawl is sufficient if we are striving in our hearts to become that triangle. I believe all of us can know whether we are justified or not in our adaptions if such adaptions are necessary. Regards, Finrock

Good morning bambi66! I hope you are having a great day. :) The truth is that until you make a choice nothing will get resolved and you will continue to struggle with these questions. Don't be a coward but also if you sincerely and honestly feel that your husband is capable of physically harming you then I would confess remotely or with a friend. In any case, do what is right and let the consequences follow. One thing I know with absolute certainty is that when we do what is right, the consequences in the long-term, will work out for our good. You can't go wrong by doing what is right. Regards, Finrock

Good evening joecool5491! :) You're welcome. Regards, Finrock

Good Afternoon joecool5491 and Welcome to the forums! Perhaps this will help. The scriptures remind us that love casts away fear and allows us to endure with joy for the sake of those we love. "And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things" (Moro. 7:45). If this is a person who you love and you are going to marry in the temple, there is no room for feelings of jealousy, regret, anger, and self-righteousness. Be simple and be easy. Do whatever it is that will most help her to have a happy earth life; that is what love would have you do. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon volgadon! :) Says who? Regards, Finrock

I like what Volgadon is saying here. The question is do we believe that we can intervene on behalf of another person via prayer? Of course, we have been commanded to pray and not only for ourselves but for others. We are "...commanded in all things to ask of God" (D&C 46:7). Trying to forestall the warned of destruction because of the wickedness of the Nephites, Nephi "...he went out and bowed himself down upon the earth, and cried mightily to his God in behalf of his people" (3 Ne. 1:12). We don't have God's wisdom but we do have access to it. We also have a responsibility to intervene on behalf of our fellow man to help them and to bring them up. We tread woefully close to the path of apathy if we simply shrug our shoulders and say that a person has the trials they have because God wants them to have them. It's one thing to say that we can grow from our trials (which is true) but it's another thing to say that we shouldn't question or petition on behalf of another so that their burden may be lighter. God, at any point, could simply command and all things would be set in order. However, this short circuits the purposes of God which is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Part of this process is learning to understand the nature of free will and making good choices. The making choice part is easy. We do that all day long, all of the time. It's understanding the nature of free will that is more difficult because it requires understanding that we simply cannot make a descision and it not have some ethical or moral implications on others. We cannot know how our choices can affect others but if we ensure that we are always doing what is right then the message of a Sunday hymn applies and we can just "let the consequence follow". We don't have to worry about the consequences of our choices when we good. So, all of these situations we face in life are all opportunities for us to be refined and we do this as we act out in righteous ways, slowly becoming a true disciple. But, we must act. We must choose. We must decide to help others or not. We should "succor those that stand in need of your succor" (Mosiah 4). We can't assume God's justice is in play in another's life because in condemning others we then condemn ourselves. King Benjamin said, "Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery...for his punishments are just. But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent" (Mosiah 4). Now, when it comes to praying for people to die...I guess such a specific prayer assumes that "death" is the only relief or solution. I think this is problematic because in the specific case of an abused child aren't we ultimately just wanting to remove a child from the miserable and wicked situation. Death certainly will do that but is it the only option and should we be assuming that it is? I don't think so. I think our prayers should be to help end the suffering by whatever means God seems fit and to pray to know what you can do to make the suffering end and then, once we know God's will or we have satisfied our responsibility, we accept it. Regards, Finrock