bytor2112

An excerpt from a talk by Elder Bruce R McConkie: Now, there is a true doctrine of salvation by grace--a salvation by grace alone and without works, as the scriptures say. To understand this doctrine we must define our terms as they are defined in holy writ. 1. What is salvation? It is both immortality and eternal life. It is an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It consists of the fullness of the glory of the Father and is reserved for those for whom the family unity continues in eternity. Those who are saved become as God is and live as he lives. 2. What is the plan of salvation? It is the system ordained by the Father to enable his spirit children to advance and progress and become like him. It consists of three great and eternal verities--the Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement--without any of which there could be no salvation. 3. What is the grace of God? It is his mercy, his love, and his condescension--all manifest for the benefit and blessing of his children, all operating to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. We rejoice in the heavenly condescension that enabled Mary to become “the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh” (1 Nephi 11:18). We bask in the eternal love that sent the Only Begotten into the world “that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). We are profoundly grateful for that mercy which endureth forever and through which salvation is offered to erring mortals. 4. Does salvation come by grace, or grace alone, by grace without works? It surely does, without any question in all its parts, types, kinds, and degrees. We are saved by grace, without works; it is a gift of God. How else could it come? In his goodness and grace the great God ordained and established the plan of salvation. No works on our part were required. In his goodness and grace he created this earth and all that is on it, with man as the crowning creature of his creating--without which creation his spirit children could not obtain immortality and eternal life. No works on our part were required. In his goodness and grace he provided for the Fall of man, thus bringing mortality and death and a probationary estate into being--without all of which there would be no immortality and eternal life. And again no works on our part were required. In his goodness and grace--and this above all--he gave his Only Begotten Son to ransom man and all life from the temporal and spiritual death brought into the world by the Fall of Adam. He sent his Son to redeem mankind, to atone for the sins of the world, “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). And again all this comes to us as a free gift and without works. There is nothing any man could do to create himself. This was the work of the Lord God. Nor did we have any part in the Fall of man, without which there could be no salvation. The Lord provided the way, and Adam and Eve put the system into operation. And finally, there neither has been, nor is, nor ever can be any way nor means by which man alone can, or any power he possesses, redeem himself. We cannot resurrect ourselves anymore than we can create ourselves. We cannot create a heavenly abode for the Saints, nor make provision for the continuation of the family unit in eternity, nor bring salvation and exaltation into being. All these things are ordained and established by that God who is the Father of us all. And they all came into being and are made available to us, as free gifts, without works, because of the infinite goodness and grace of Him whose children we are. Truly, there is no way to overstate the goodness and grandeurs and glories of the grace of God which bringeth salvation. Such wondrous love, such unending mercy, such infinite compassion and condescension--all these can come only from the Eternal God who lives in eternal life and who desires all of his children to live as he lives and be inheritors of eternal life.

So, how do you view those in the world who are not Christian? Children? Muslims and Buddhists and Jews? What is there relationship to God? Are they his......pets? A favorite quote of mine...."the things of God can only be understood by the power of the Holy Spirit." It is a very true statement. Perhaps, some sincere prayer and pondering might shed a bit more light on the subject. Why do you think we live in families? Why are children so vitally important to us? Our lives....in family units....is a kind of snapshot of how God lives...our Heavenly Father. What happens to those who do not hear about Christ? Children who die without the knowledge of Christ? Are you suggesting that each of the scriptures I quoted only pertained to the listening audience of the time???????? "our God, and Father of All"....doesn't mean...Father of all??? What then does it mean?

Vigorous exercise.......

How do you know you are not in error? Do you consult a scholar in Hebrew and Greek language, as you implied in another thread was necessary, each time you read from the Bible? -Little Nipper

Are we not brother's in Christ, Little nipper? Are you saying that only someone learned in Hebrew/Greek can accurately interpret scripture? If so, where does that really leave you?

So, you don't even believe the words of Holy Writ??? Why is it so difficult to understand that we are God's children? Are you repelled by the idea? We are his children, and we are governed by his laws and are subject to his chastisement, all of which caused Paul to say: "We have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Hebrews 12:9).

Who warned who? Let's get acquainted with the facts, shall we....... You may recall....that in 2001 Bush warned that Freddie and Fannie were to large and way over leveraged? He warned that if they were to fail that the failure would wreck the capital markets and go far beyond housing. Bush fought for more regulation of Fannie and Freddie, he wanted to raise there capital requirements and limit the size of their portfolios. The Bush reforms were not passed....until 2008. You may also recall, that Sen. Chris Dodd, Dempcrat from Conn. successfully threatened a filibuster and called the reforms "ill-advised". In 2008 he changed his tune and voted for the reform and then played dumb. Oh and you may recall some of these gems of wisdom from some of the most brilliant Democrats: Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts defended Fannie and Freddie as "fundamentally sound" and labeled the president's proposals as "inane." He later voted for the reforms. Sen. Charles Schumer of New York dismissed Bush's "safety and soundness concerns" as "a straw man." "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," was the helpful advice of both Sen. Thomas Carper of Delaware and Rep. Maxine Waters of California. Rep. Gregory Meeks of New York berated a Bush official at a hearing, saying, "I am just pissed off" at the administration for raising the issue. The housing meltdown is largely a story of greed and irresponsibility made possible by government privilege. If Democrats had granted the Bush administration the regulatory powers it sought, the housing crisis wouldn't be nearly as severe and the economy as a whole would be better off. Oh and do we need to discuss President Clinton's role in this mess? He certainly played a role in this fiasco. Yes and how we seek to correct it will determine how long it lasts. What Bush did....was warn against the impending disaster and Democrats successfully blocked his attempts at averting the disaster. Again, you are so wrong, things were in motion long before Bush and Clinton enabled the problem to grow even faster. We are paying for a lot of ignorance, mostly by the party you so ardently defend. I know it feels good to blame Bush for everything....even when it is patently false, but really, the facts just don't support your statements. Obama's emergency spending bill sucks. It is full of pork......it's the Democratic Party's spending wish list for the last 40 years. Be honest, weren't you just a tad disappointed? The crisis as we all know involves the housing market and sub--prime lending, this bill is just a big load of pork and I would have had so much respect for Obama if he would have called Pelosi and Reid out on it and forced them to fix it. Politics as usual? I think so......

Morticia and Gomez.......

Fred and Wilma........

Back during the campaign Michelle Obama made some rather snide comments regarding the stimulus checks that were sent out.....how soon everyone forgets. The point really is the Pork. If $13.00 is such a big deal, why not more? Why, at this time,during an economic crisis......does this "emergency" economic stimulus bill only provide an additional $13.00 (ok and some other welfare handouts) when it could have provided so much more rather than wasting tons of tax payer dollars on things that do not address the problem. Outrageous. Personally, I would rather wipe my own nose and buy my own "social program" rather than become a needy victim that can only survive because of our "benevolent" government. The nanny state is coming.....

Mmmmm...uhhhh, nooo......... The biggest percentage tax cut—about 17.6 percent—went to taxpayers in the second-lowest quintile, that is to taxpayers with below-average incomes. After that, the size of the tax cut falls off as you move from the lower middle to the middle middle (12.6 percent) to the upper middle class (9.9 percent). It rises again slightly for the top quintile, but only to a little over 11 percent. Bush taxcut highlights....courtesy of the CATO Institute: * A reduction of individual income tax rates from 15, 28, 31, 36, and 39.6 percent to 10, 15, 25, 28, 33, and 35 percent; * An increase in the child tax credit from $500 to $1,000; * A phased-in reduction in estate taxes, and a one-year repeal in 2010; * A big expansion of tax-favored retirement savings plans. Obviously....referring to your intense admiration for the new President and liberal politics......no offense intended.

I am a Deacon's Quorum Adviser as well and you can find the purposes of the Aaronic Priesthood in the Duty to God booklet......:)

Do you really believe they think this is going to help?????? Are you kidding me? Wow! Elphaba, I know you are a huge Obama fan and completely opposite from me politically,but even you must see that this stimulus bill is rotten? Aren't you disappointed? Aren't you saying to yourselves...."this just seems like business as usual in D.C.?" How does this bill address an economic emergency? Really, this is indefensible.

We are all over taxed and you know what I meant. He is also going to let the Bush tax cuts expire....which is a tax increase and he's going to increase taxes on businesses. This bill stinks....even you should be able to see that.

You may recall that this was touted as an "emergency" stimulus bill. The bill is LOADED with pork and the "typical" "working" family will get a lousy additional $13.00 a week or what ever it shakes out to be. Additionally, much of the so-called tax cut is nothing more than rebate checks to people who don't pay taxes. This isn't stimulus.....it's a joke. Bush did something similar in 2001 and 2008....that was a joke too. If tax cuts stimulate the economy and they do, let's have real tax cuts, broad based and long term. Pork is always packed into spending bills, but in an "emergency" stimulus bill, this just stinks.

What a joke....

I am a Floridian, born and raised and I agree, once you get past Gainesville.......you have left the South. But Panama City is a very southern town,,,,if you didn't see the beach, you would think you lived in Alabama or Georgia

I think these scriptures clearly show that we the children of God....literally his offspring. Acts 17:29 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device. Psalm 82:6 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Matthew 6:9 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Matthew 5:48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Ephesians 4:6 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I was in Colorado a while back and someone asked where I was visiting from and I replied Panama City, Florida. And they asked where that was at so I explained that it was in the Panhandle between Tallahassee and Pensacola. And then they said, " You must not be from Florida originally, because I detect a slight southern accent"??????? Florida is in the South.....like Dr. T........I am from L.A........lower Alabama:lol:

I think the same thing.....I think they see it but don't care??

rr-bb???

:huh: You might look back a bit farther than Bush if you are gonna blame a President or you could blame the Democrats in Congress, they have in fact been in control of Congress for over two years.....or you could blame greed or even the lenders who made a huge market in sub prime lending and the people who were fleeced into over extending themselves. That would be much more honest. You are aware that this is a global crisis aren't you???? Is Bush also responsible for the economic crisis that exists worldwide????

Happy Birthday Bethie!!!!!!:):):)

Not at all, how do you see it conflicting?

How so??? How is loving each other and getting along closing our eyes to truth? Personally, I think it is good advice and reminds me of the words of a favorite hymn: As I have loved you, Love one another. This new commandment: Love one another. By this shall men know Ye are my disciples, If ye have love One to another.