bytor2112

Rastler....when I have called you un-Patriotic???? And for the record, me too. I think Iraq has been a mess....better now, but an unnecesarily prolonged mess. Even if you opposed the war from the beginning I would not accuse you of being unpatriotic. So where do we disagree? I am defending the way Bush's speech is twisted by those with an ax to grind. I think we can desent and be honest and be Patriotic, don't you?

Quotes from Osama Bin Laden: (Just trying to keep the lie going, Brenton) "Hostility toward America is a religious duty, and we hope to be rewarded for it by God . . . . I am confident that Muslims will be able to end the legend of the so-called superpower that is America. Time Magazine "The pieces of the bodies of infidels were flying like dust particles. If you would have seen it with your own eyes, you would have been very pleased, and your heart would have been filled with joy." -- At the wedding of his son in southern Kandahar about the 17 sailors who died suicide bombing of the USS Cole off the coast of Yemen "Every American man is an enemy to us." -- Independent. " . . . It is far better for anyone to kill a single American soldier than to squander his efforts on other activities." -- May 1998 "We--with God's help--call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson." Feb. 1998 - Bin Laden edict

Sigh.........sorry you feel that way Rastler. I don't feel that way and it's to bad that the national dialogue hinges on misstatements and misunderstandings. President Bush's speech certainly was not alluding to anything like that. You really should read the speech....it was very well written and delivered just 12 days after 911. I am not a huge fan of President Bush', but I think he gets a raw deal and I am for honesty.

Unless you are a Nation, Rastler.......he wasn't talking about you. If you read his words he was specifically addressing nations that provide aid and support to terrorists.Sounds reasonable to me....I mean at least be intellectually honest about what the man said and the obvious meaning of his words. "We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. Our nation has been put on notice, we're not immune from attack. We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans

I was correcting Elphaba's statement...........and he wasn't referring to you. We all might at least be thankful for the Presidents efforts to kep us safe after 911.....that could be Patriotic, whether we agre with the war or not....imo.

Is patriotism being a good "citizen"? Maybe. Does it mean doing your part in preserving the ideals of our founding fathers....I think so. Does it mean Americanism above all else or fierce nationalism......depends. Can we all be better citizens and more patriotic...absolutely. How so? Perhaps by remembering that our differences are also our great source of strengthand by never forgetting the sacrifice of those who made our freedom possible and by respecting the opinions of Americans who disagree with current military operations. I am patriotic....I am very blessed to live in this great nation. I think patriotism is always good.....not nationalism. Of course you can be critical of your government and still be patriotic.......... the nature of political discourse is criticism of the other party's ideas. The War in Iraq is very unpopular.....I support the war...but not how it has been waged. I respect those who disagree....but the problem I have is the fact that the war was used as a political wedge and I feel for the troops who have to deal with that. And GW said, "If your not with us, your with the terrorists."

I was an inactive, sometimes atheist, occaisionaly agnostic, curious about catholic, Southern Baptist that attended an Assembly of God church as a child and then baptized a southern baptist.....then became an inactive LDS...now very active.

Literally....a serpent or figuratively? Any explanation of this would be greatly appreciated. :)

I think Hell will be the realization of eternal separation from the Father and out families.. When we realize what a brief moment in time we spent on earth and how long eternity really is.........

I understand why people can be hesitant to accept the LDS teachings.....just like us they don't want to be deceived. They are afraid of being drawn into something that could have eternal consequences and based on the abundant negative misinformation about our faith.....it is easy to see why. Thankfully, in the infinite wisdom of the Father and the eternal love he has for us....he has given all mankind the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel, whether in this life or in the spirit realms. The passage of scripture that I think I most love as it relates to God and his love for man is Moses 1 v. 39, " 39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." This scripture let's me know that we are his work and his passion and gives me a great deal of comfort to know that we are his focus.

I knew that was what you meant......:)

The Resurrection and everlasting life are free gifts and will be given to all......Eternal life is the type of life that God lives........

Walter......may I ask how old you are? Are you a minor? I ask this because of the foster care comment......

I think you should reread Otterpop's post.......she is empathyzing with situations like yours.

Ceeboo....I think it is like saying.."no one can swim unless they learn to swim." You can't be saved without a knowledge of Jesus Christ and an understanding of what he requires......at least that is my interpretation In the quest for eternal truth....we all have to learn basic, undeniable truths..right? Like Jesus is the Christ....the only begotten of the Father....the Saviour and Redeemer of mankind.....that he took upon him the sins of all mankind and satisfied the demands of justice on conditions of repentance....that he was crucified and rose from the dead and now sits on the right hand of the Father and reigns in eternal glory.....those type of things.....mmmhhm.

I am a former Baptist......now LDS and I too was frustrated with the lack of answers. God has revealed to us through Holy Writ and revelation his plan for the salvation of man. We know that it is, "his work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." My Patriarchal blessing states, .." that I will receive blessings beyond my mortal minds ability to comprehend.".....I think that applies to God as well.

I have a client that committed suicide last year. He was in his early 70's and had numerous health issues and was on a lot of medication that kept him a bit out of touch and he also drank alcohol. One day he just had enough of losing his dignity and the challenges it presented to his wife and he checked out. I think that God knows how he felt and why he did the things that he did and he will indeed be merciful. I know that mercy cannot rob justice....but God is the ultimate in justness and mercy. I love my children more than my limited vocabulary can express and would always be willing to love and forgive, how much more does Heavenly Father feel toward us? Infinitely more. He will judge each of us by whats inside...whether we are good or evil. My client wasn't evil, he was old and medicated and tired of the struggle and didn't want to put his wife through anymore....I think God will receive him with love and understanding and a welcome that is beyond our understanding.

Thanks for the disclaimer Andrew.......but it's not necessary. Everyone's faith is in a"neat" little package.. We all grapple with eternal questions, don't we? I mean, there lot's of LDS doctrines that members either don't accept or struggle to accept. Many have been discussed in great detail on this forum.....polygamy, King Follett discourse, etc. Protestants struggle as well.....infant baptism, understanding the Trinity, etc. In the end, we all claim the privilege of worshiping Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour and seek to be recognized as a loyal disciple and he will be the judge of each of us at the great judgment bar.

Tom.....could you elaborate abit regarding the second comforter...please. :) Thanks- Bytor

Please....talk to your parents. Be completely honest with them...if you feel like you can't do that or your home life is bad also...the see a school councellor. If these feelings dominate your thought...go to the hospital...don't delay. If you are LDS and even if your not go to see the Bishop. I know it seems difficult to imagine....but high school doesn't last forever. Teen agers can be such jerks.....remember they are being ignorant. Your life has purpose and meaning and though I don't know you.....the world is a much better place with you in it. You can have an amazing future.....amazing, please don't let insensitive, ignorant jerks hurt you so badly that you could ever consider harm to yourself. Sometimes life seems unbearable and that it's just not worth the hassle...but it will improve. High school will end,....and then you get to pick and choose who you see everyday and will not have to be subjected to these abuses everyday. Hang in there and seek help.......from adults....Bishop, Doctors, Councellors, Parents......don't delay....do it today.:)

I suppose if you discount the words of the Saviour and ignore James and discount the teachings of the all the Prophets of this dispensation and totally disregard all that the church teaches....you might conclude that they have more evidence for their views than ours. If you are referring to the Bible only....one still has to ignore much of the teachings to come to your conclusion.

hmm....how about a Jewish Rabi...or a Muslim Cleric...or a Budhist monk... just insert what you fell comfortable with....:) PC...I thought you were Pentacostal or Assembly of God..no?

Walterkeller, Bitterness and despair can and should be when they occur,... temporary. Happiness is a choice....the glass is half full or half empty...it's all a matter of perspective. I am not sure that bitterness is a disease, I guess it could be if it is chronic. Change yuor situation, move somewhere else, change jobs and above all else.....remember that we are eternal beings and this life as we know it...... will end,....but we will continue. :) Hang in there, bow up. EEKGAD, man.

Does the church endorse Missouri.....Adam-ondi-ahman....as the Garden of Eden?

Pope and Prophet and Evangelical Preacher were in a boat fishing in the middle of a lake. Pope Says, " I gotta go to the bathroom", so he jumps out of the boat and walks across the lake to the bathroom and then comes back. Mormon Prophet says, " I gotta go too", so he jumps out of the boat and walks across the water and goes to the bathroom and then walks back. A few minutes later the Evangelical preacher says, " I gotta go too", so he jumps out of the boat and and immediately starts floundering around. The Pope looks at the Prophet and says, " Should we tell him about the rocks?", the Prophet replies, " what rocks?"