bytor2112

Ceeboo, A strong testimony of Joseph Smith is a good indication of a strong testimony in the Restored Gospel.....IMO. I absolutely accept the teachings of our great Prophet.....as do most faithful Saints. I tend to look at this bit of deep doctrine like this.......we are eternal beings, our Spirits..and one day our physical bodies will be uncorruptable as well. The Savior had to attain a mortal body and work out his salvation as well...... From Elder Bruce R McConkie: Christ worked out his own salvation. This is something of which uninspired men have no comprehension. Truly, he was the Lord Omnipotent before the world was; truly, he was like unto the Father in the premortal life; truly, he was the Son of God here on earth--and yet, with it all, as with all the spirit children of the same Father, he too was subject to all of the terms and conditions of the Father's plan. He also was born on earth to undergo a mortal probation, to die, to rise again in immortal glory, to be judged according to his works, and to receive his place of infinite glory in the eternal kingdom of his Everlasting Father. How well Paul said: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author [that is, the cause] of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. [Hebrews 5: 8*9]

How do you know they were wrong?

I was visited by Aliens in New Mexico.....that is why I appear as this way cool Iceman dude:cool:

Interesting to me is that many Apostles and Prophets have believed that Hill Cumorah where Joseph found the plates is the very Hill Cumorah and Ramah where the great battles occured. Notably, Joseph Fielding Smith, Bruce R. McConkie, Marion G. Romney, LeGrand Richards and others.....made statements in confernce talks and in published works attesting to this.....

So your saying that if a young couple are sealed and some time during their marriage one or both parties decide....whoops big mistake, no way I want to be with this schlub for eternity, that they can seperate in Eternity and take a new eternal companion? I thought that eternal progression would also include overcoming human faults and failings and looking beyong who we are today in recognition of who each of us can eventually become in eternity. I mean if some girls Prince Charming turns into a frog with a remote in his hand, etc....these thing can be overcome and are superficial.....just as other personality quirks that may only exist because of life experiences in this fallen sphere in which we all reside. How many men leave their wives because they do not look like they once did....never lost the baby weight, etc. I think we can all be blinded at times by this world.....but I like to believe that whatever struggles we may have with enduring to the end with our spouse will be made right in the eternal worlds.....not through Celestial divorce...but by attaining God like attributes......by having a more perfect love.

I live in NW Fl......visited Utah in 1994.....I liked it and thought about moving there....but, have decided on Colorado Springs instead. Maybe I'll get there one day

I tend to believe that we show our love and adoration for our Heavenly Father through our actions and thoughts. "If you love me keep my commandments......" We please the Father by becoming like the Father.....not just by keeping commandments but by truly becoming like him in our heart and in our thoughts and deeds. I think that the more I feel the Spirit, the more I am asured that I am on the right track. I think that this is pure worship.... By the way G-D....God....I think it is the reverent manner in which we refer to Heavenly Father that counts.

Yeah....I'll probably tune that out a well......though NOTHING could be more terrifying than last night.......nothing...although some might say it was rather comedic at times.....

DJ......your comments are right from anti mormon propaganda. The Holy Spirit...that you just dimissed as good feelings....is a member of the Godhead. Be careful how you dismiss, this as just good feelings...if you even felt the Spirit. It sounds like your search for truth, LDS, Baptist, Jewish and whatever else has led you to your self. To know, recieve and understand the things of God...you have to have faith. You have to surrender and rather than worry over 19th century history, which you were not a witness to and no one else alive today was either, you should be more focused on your eternal salvation....which is never going to be found in studying church history or listening to LDS dissenters. Tithing is an act of faith.....I seriously doubt the story about the person taking out a loan is true. Attending the Temple...the House of the Lord is a matter of worthiness. Worthy to enter the Temple...worthy to enter the Lords presence. You do not undertand the sacred....if your not faithful before you attend the Temple, how can one be expected to honor the sacred covenants made in the Temple>?

Scary Movie is over.......I hope there is not a sequel.

Um....I thought when he gave speeches and Towne Halls he was very good.......the debates seemed to get him off message or take him away from who he is at the core, maybe. He did get attacked a lot, so maybe it was the venue. When he gave his speech on religion...I felt the Spirit. At the rally I attended, he was very engaging and accesible and just gave you the impression that he was very sincere....a really warm person. He seems very perfect and maybe that puts some people off. He is a well spoken, handsome person and has a picture perfect family. His wife Ann.....wow. She is impressive....IMO. I wasn't that impressed with him, until I met him.....maybe it is just the venue....

I met Mitt at a rally in Florida during the primary........ he was very charismatic. He is a former Bishop and Stake President........

So your saying.......that what they know about this just ain't so???

Sorry...

Numerous Prophets and Apostles have affirmed that the Hill Cumorah in upstate New York is the location of the the final conflicts found in the Book of Mormon. Mormon Doctrine, Doctrines of Salvation and numerous Conference talks as well as the Journal of Discourses.....which I know are not supposed to be historically factual. But none the less, it is very evident that this has been a long held belief. Doesn't matter to me, New York or Meso America.......

I watched part three of a really scary program last night...it was on nearly every channel I turned to......it was called Convention...thank goodness I realized it was only fantasy:lol::lol: Sorry....couldn't resist:)

I thought it was Ham, the Father of Canaan that told his brothers and exposed his Fathers shame.....

I am fairly certain that modern Prophets have stated that Hill Comorah in New York is where the final battle took place.......

21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, aCursed be bCanaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. 26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his aservant. 27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Noah is being abit harsh here...or am I missing something? Why curse anyone, much less Canaan?

As a Father.....I want my children to learn and grow and become better than I am......because I love them. One day, they will inherit all that I have......sound familiar? Heavenly Father loves us so incomprehensively much, that he wants us to have the kind of life that he has....eternal life....exaltation. We can all claim to be heirs of royalty, yet seem to struggle that one day when we are ready, when we have progressed, we will rise to that station in the eternal worlds. Not to be above the Father, but to become like him.

Hello Ceeboo, here an article that may be of interest to you..... Church Publications (HTML)

Hello again Ceeboo, 2 Thessolonians Ch. 2 verses 1-12 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, aby the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know awhat withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all apower and bsigns and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong elusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Timothy Ch.4 verses1-4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Ephesians Ch 1 verse 10 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Ephesians Ch. 4 verses 11-14 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Hello Ceeboo, Ok.....perhaps what I should have said is, that since the Protestant reformation confusion over the nature of God and salvation abounds. And yes, I know that you don't believe in the apostasy...your Catholic:D....but it is a Biblically prophesied event. There is only one Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God...Savior and Redeemer of Mankind.....agreed? We differ in our understanding of him..perhaps...but not his mission, right? Mission to satisfy the demands of justice, to make mercy available because of the penalties of a broken law.....to atone for each of us so our sins may be forgiven....yes?

Fiona.......There is only one Jesus Christ and we believe in the same one that the Catholics believe in and the same one that all of the off-shoot Protestant denominations believe in as well. Their understanding of the Savior and salvation is based on traditional Christian orthodoxy that has been debated since the early church fell into apostasy .....and particularly since the Protestant reformation. It is odd to me that they think they know what we believe better than we do. There is only one Gospel and only one plan of salvation. We know that the Gospel was restored in it's fullness and that since that time we have been led by living Prophets and Apostles. We have an additional record that clarifies the Biblical teachings....that was preserved for our day and time to stand as an additional witness that Jesus is the Christ. If you think that some of the deeper doctrine of the church is confusing to you.....the baloney that this person PM'ed you shows that he/she is even more confused. To quote a late Apostle," the things of God can only be understood by the power of the Holy Spirit." And this person...these people don't have it. Don't let them tell you what we believe, because they don't know, as evidenced by the blather that they sent you. The Father is not a personage of flesh and blood.....he is a glorified personage of flesh and bone. We believe and the scriptures confirm this....BOM, Bible......that Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father and was born of a virgin. Alma Ch.7 Verse 10, "And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God." Ok....Jesus Christ is Jehovah...the God of the Old Testament in the flesh. He is the only begotten Son of the Father. He is the Son of Man of Holiness. Man of Holiness is another name for Heavenly Father. Moses Ch. 6 Verse 57,.....for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.". He does represent God to us......by his character, by his attributes, by his example,... He saved us because he accepted worship?????? Jesus Christ is our advocate with the Father, he is the Son of the Living God and salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way. He drank the Father's bitter cup and took upon himself the sins of all mankind on conditions of repentance. Fiona...the church is true and as we progress spiritually the Spirit teaches us sacred truths as we are ready to recieve them. We are all at different places spiritually and some have a greater undertanding than others. But don't be dismayed....all in due time. We are Eternal beings and some things we won't understand for a very long time. The person who PM'ed you doesn't understand our doctrine.....God's doctrine, he misrepresented so many things....things commonly found on Anti web sites....he doesn't even understand the truth that he has......

Hi Ceeboo, Ok...I'm not Hemi or Van....hope that's ok... We believe that if we are valiant in our testimonies of Christ and recieve all of the sacred saving ordinances available to us that we will receive Eternal life in the Celetial Kingdom and eternaly progress. We do not believe that we will become God or equal to him, but rather we can become like him. Yes, everyone who has ever lived or will ever live will have the opportunity to recieve the gospel, repent and if valiant grow and progress in the eternal realms. We believe that we will be heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.....to inherit the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god (small g) and ascend the throne of eternal power. Godhood is to have the character, possess the attributes, and enjoy the perfections which the Father has. It is to do what he does, have the powers resident in him and live as he lives, having eternal increase. It is not to become equal to God the Father. As for God having a God and so on.....no. He is it...the Almighty.