bytor2112

From the LDS Bible dictionary: The English word revelation is translated from a Greek word apocalypse, meaning to make known or uncover. This is in contrast to apocrypha, which connotes covered or concealed. Divine revelation is one of the grandest concepts and principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ, for without it, man could not know of the things of God and could not be saved with any degree of salvation in the eternities. Continuous revelation from God to his saints, through the Holy Ghost or by other means, such as vision, dreams, or visitations, makes possible daily guidance along true paths and leads the faithful soul to complete and eternal salvation in the celestial kingdom. The principle of gaining knowledge by revelation is the principle of salvation. It is the making known of divine truth by communication with the heavens, and consists not only of revelation of the plan of salvation to the Lord’s prophets, but also a confirmation in the hearts of the believers that the revelation to the prophets is true. It also consists of individual guidance for every person who seeks for it and follows the prescribed course of faith, repentance, and obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ. “The Holy Ghost is a revelator,” said Joseph Smith, and “no man can receive the Holy Ghost without receiving revelations” (HC 6: 58). Without revelation, all would be guesswork, darkness, and confusion. In the Lord’s Church the First Presidency, the Council of the Twelve, and the Patriarch are prophets, seers, and revelators to the Church and to the world. In addition, every person may receive personal revelation for his own benefit. It is contrary to the laws of God for any person to receive revelation for those higher in authority (see D&C 28: 2-8; D&C 100: 11; D&C 107: 91-92).

Matthew Ch. 11 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matthew Ch. 5 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. D & C Section 31 13 Be faithful unto the end, and lo, I am with you. These words are not of man nor of men, but of me, even Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, by the will of the Father. Amen.

Nephi II Ch. 31 20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life. This verse makes me very happy.....:)

Hi LJ......most non LDS Christians I talk with have a solid belief in the fact that they are "saved". They trust the Bible.....and I do as well...but tell me I can't trust my "feelings". The difficult issue really is there non understanding of the Holy Spirit. They often equate spiritual experience to flamboyant excitement passed off as spiritual experience....like some of the televangelists on TV with these entertaining productions filled with people dancing and organs playing, etc. They don't understand, because they haven't experienced the presence of a member of the Godhead communing with their Spirit and until that occurs...our faith will always be viewed as wrong.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: It reads...All Scripture...not "the Bible is true"...which of course, I believe the Bible is true. I can easily apply this scripture interpretation to mean BOM, D&C POGP and Bible.

Where in the Bible does it say the Bible is true?!?!?!?!?!

Or better still...try LDS.ORG or attend a local meetinghouse.

Misshalfway....don't you think that is why so many people are either hung up on scientific evidence or Bible only belief systems...because they are not learning by the spirit...feeling his communication of truths? If I only rely on my own logic and reason and ignore that special something we know is the Spirit...where does that lead?

Accepting every Biblical account is not a requirement for your salvation. Having faith in Jesus Christ and obeying his commandments is all that is required. If you think that the flood is just a faith premoting story passed down through the generations...that is ok. There are many things that make me scratch my head when I try to reconcile my understanding of science..which is limited and my understanding of scripture...which is limited as well. The big test is to learn by the Spirit...to listen to his voice with our spiritual ears ....instead of trying to justify or reason through everything by our limited intelligences. There is so much more to the stories than the words written on the pages. If we really seek the truth......we learn so much more than is expected and sometimes more than we are capable of understanding.

The great war against sin is fought in the theater of the mind.....controlling or changing one's thoughts is critical to salvation. The different stimulus that our brains recieve spark much of the thoughts that stay in the forefront. Best to be stimulated by the uplifting and positive...... What about dreams? Oh my.....I have had dreams that make me cringe...where the heck did that come from??

As Latter Day Saints we take some heat from other Christian faiths because of the "as far as it is translated correctly" statement. I think that this statement can be applied to our personal interpretation of Biblical passages as well. It is obvious that there is diversity of opinion on doctrinal issues such as the nature of the Godhead as evidenced by all of the various posts that we read. How we translate or interpret a verse is important to the meaning....I think this is why Joseph sought to clarify the Biblical translation. I often use this as an example when challenged by friends of other faiths who regard the Bible to be inerrent...my response is perhaps your interpretation is in error. Just a thought.....

We use water. The Sacrament prayer is found in Moroni Ch. 4 and Ch. 5. You may notice that the prayer says "wine". Doctrine and Covenants Ch. 27 verse2, explains that it does not matter what is used for the Sacrament if it is done with an eye single to Chrits's glory.

They are three gods and comprise the Godhead.

From Prayer Foundation: Despite many variations, Evangelicals generally adhere to Four Characteristics, and Four Core Beliefs: Four Characteristics: Emphasis on the conversion experience, also called being saved, or new birth or born again after John 3:3 ("Jesus answered and said unto him, 'Truly, truly, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot not see the kingdom of God.' "). Thus evangelicals often refer to themselves as born-again Christians. This experience is said to be received by "faith alone" and to be given by God as the result of "grace alone" (Ephesians 2:8,9 1). The Bible as the primary, ultimate and final, or only, source of religious authority, as God's revelation to humanity. Thus, the doctrine of sola scriptura (Scripture alone) is often affirmed and emphasized (II Timothy 3:16 2, John 17:17 3). Encouragement of evangelism (the act of sharing one's beliefs) -- in organized missionary work or by personal encounters and relationships with others (Matthew 28:19 4). A central focus on Christ's redeeming work on the cross as the only means for salvation and the forgiveness of sins (I Corinthians 15:3,4 5). Four Core Beliefs: Biblical inerrancy. (II Timothy 3:16 2, John 17:17 3) Salvation comes only through faith in Jesus Christ and not as a result of one's good works (in particular belief in atonement for sins at the cross and the resurrection of Christ). (Ephesians 2:8,9 1; I Corinthians 15:3,4 5) Individuals (above an age of accountability) must personally trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. (John 3:6,7 6) All Christians are commissioned to evangelize and should be publicly baptized as a confession of faith. (Matthew 28:19 4)

And not so much wrong as incomplete or not clarified.......and thank goodness for restored doctrine. I often think that the problem "some" have with LDS doctrine has more to do with an unwillingness to conform to the Lord's laws and submit to Priesthood authority. It is so much "easier" to just be "saved" than to allow the Spirit to teach you the details of the Glorious Plan of Salvation.

Great definition Snow...makes me think about the painstaking method of preserving the Nephite record and how important it was......... So many people only accept the Bible in it's present form regardless of the translation. Living Bibles with modern language, KJV, NIV, etc. and they cling to "creeds" as opposed to the actual Biblical text. I think many professed Christians don't or are unable to differentiate between a creed and true Biblical undertanding......particularly understanding as imparted by the Holy Spirit.

Inerrant as defined by the Evangelical movement...... Again.....I am mostly referring to the common refrain by Evangelicals that the "Bible is the inerrant word of God..." Complete....el finito...done. God has spoken and we need no more. Yes... all of the above and anything else we know or think we know...and even perhaps tying into why the BOM was so necessary as a result.

Bible Inerrant and Complete? After being subjected to the same old recycled Anti-smears posted by someone in the Uncomfortable doctrine thread.....I though perhaps a respectful conversation around the issue of Biblical translation might be useful and interesting. I would like to begin by saying I love the Bible and read the NT daily and believe it is the word of God. Being a former Baptist, I understand how non-members view the Bible and also understand why they think the material found on Mormon Out Reach sites support their views and also seem to prove that we are not a Christian church. I posted a short article from Fairlds and look forward to any Biblical comments and or testimonies of the Bible.

Yet, I assure you that if you had this "feeling" you would understand.

May I speak of the seven Christs, or, rather, of the one Christ whose works and words are shown forth in seven ways? We live in a day of contention and confusion, in which Christian people cry, “Lo, here is Christ; or lo, there” (see Matt. 24:23), meaning, “Lo, here is the way of salvation; or lo, there.” We hear voices of doom and voices of glory. The doctrines and dogmas of the contending sects are at war one with another. We are exhorted to believe in tenets of disagreement and to walk in crooked paths. The sounds are discordant; the babble is incessant; and the messages are at variance. Surely it is clear to even the most blinded fanatic that opposing religious views cannot all be true. In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions we raise a calm and reasoned voice, a voice that goes forth with the sound of a trumpet, a voice that is carried by the power of the Spirit into the hearts of contrite souls. It is a voice which speaks the words of eternal life here and now and prepares men to gain immortal glory in the everlasting realms that are to be. We are the servants of the Lord, and he has sent us to invite all men to come unto Christ and be perfected in him. We are sent to testify of the true and only Christ, of the true and only gospel, of the true and only salvation. We invite all men to hear and heed our witness. The Christ of whom we preach, and whose witnesses we are, is known in these seven ways: 1. Christ—The Creator There is a God in heaven—a holy, exalted, perfected, and pure being who is the Father of us all. He is a Holy Man; he has a body of flesh and bones; and he is the Father of spirits. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Firstborn. He came forth as the heir and offspring of the Father. Along with all his spirit brethren he was endowed with agency and subject to law. By obedience, by righteousness, through faith, over long ages and eons, this Firstborn of the Father, our Elder Brother, advanced and progressed until he became like unto God in power, in might, in dominion, and in intelligence. He became and was “the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity.” (Mosiah 3:5.) Then it was that he, under the Father, became the Creator of worlds without number. Then it was that the Father ordained and established the plan of salvation—called the gospel of God—whereby all his spirit children, Christ included, would be able to gain mortal bodies, to live in a probationary estate, to die, to be raised in immortal glory, and, if true and faithful in all things, to gain the same glorious exaltation enjoyed by the Father himself. And then it was that the one who was beloved and chosen of the Father was foreordained to be the Savior and Redeemer, to be the one whose atoning sacrifice would put into full operation all of the terms and conditions of the Father’s great and eternal plan. 2. Christ—The God of Our Fathers There is one God and Father of us all, one eternal plan of salvation, one way back to heaven. And Jesus Christ is the name given by the Father whereby men may be saved. His is the only name given under heaven—either now, or in ages past, or in eternities yet unborn—whereby salvation comes. (See D&C 18:23; Moses 6:52.) There is one everlasting gospel, one Mediator between God and men, one alone who came to reconcile fallen men to their Maker. All men in all ages are saved by the same power, the same laws, the same Savior. And that Savior is Christ. It is written: “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” (Heb. 13:8.) He is the Lord Jehovah; he is the Great I AM; and beside him there is no Savior. He is the God of Adam and of Enoch and of Noah and of all the Saints who were before the flood. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and of all Israel. He is the Holy One of Israel, the God of all the prophets of all the ages. It was by faith in his name that they performed all their mighty works. He was the God of the Jaredites and the Israelites and the Nephites. Moses, “esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt” (Heb. 11:26), chose to follow him. He is the one who parted the Red Sea at Moses’ word, who stopped the sun and the moon when Joshua spoke, who raised from death the widow’s son because Elijah desired it. All of the prophets, all of the patriarchs, all of the ancient Saints worshipped the Father in his holy name and in no other way. All true believers, all of the faithful from Adam to this hour, all those who through faith have wrought righteousness and gained salvation—all, without exception, have taken upon themselves his name and have followed him with full purpose of heart. He is our God and he is the God of our fathers! 3. Christ—The Promised Messiah For four thousand long years—from the day Adam was cast out of Eden to the day John baptized at Bethabara—all of the prophets and all of the Saints looked forward to the coming of the Messiah. They talked and taught of Christ; they preached and prophesied of Christ; they centered their lives and all of their hopes in the promise of his coming. They knew that as God’s Son he would be born of a virgin, that he would work out the infinite and eternal atonement, that immortality and eternal life would come by him. All of their doctrine, all of their ordinances, all of their worship linked his name with that of the Father himself. The whole law of Moses, with all its types and shadows, testified of the one who would come to save his people. For instance, on the Day of Atonement the high priest placed the name of Jehovah upon a goat and sacrificed it for the sins of the people in similitude of the sacrifice Jehovah himself would make when he was lifted upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world. 4. Christ—The Mortal Messiah Our Blessed Lord was born of Mary in Bethlehem of Judea. In so doing, he “made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” (Philip. 2:7.) As a man he lived a perfect life, conforming to the will of the Father in all things. He taught the gospel, organized the Church, and called others to the ministry. He healed the sick and raised the dead and performed many mighty miracles. He was rejected of men, condemned by the evil powers that then were, and crucified upon a cruel cross. 5. Christ—The Crucified Yet Risen One We speak now of the Christ who came into the world to die, to die upon the cross for the sins of men. And we speak also of the Christ who came to rise again from the dead, of the Christ who, in glorious immortality, invites us to follow him in life and in death and in life again. In Gethsemane he bowed beneath a load none other could bear. There he sweat great gouts of blood from every pore as he bore the sins of us all on conditions of repentance. (See Luke 22:44.) Again, on Calvary, during the last three hours of his mortal passion, the sufferings of Gethsemane returned, and he drank to the full the cup which his Heavenly Father had given him. In the garden and on the cross he paid the ransom and finished his atoning work. Early on the morning of the third day he burst the bands of death and came forth from the tomb to inherit all power on earth and in heaven. There is no language to extol the wonders of his works and all that he has done for us. As our Advocate and Intercessor he now dwells eternally in the heavens. Can we not hear his voice say to us: “Reverently and meekly now Let thy head most humbly bow. Think of me, thou ransomed one; Think what I for thee have done With my blood that dripped like rain, Sweat in agony of pain. With my body on the tree I have ransomed even thee.” (Hymns, no. 280.) 6. Christ—Today’s Messiah We bear witness not alone of the Christ who once was, but of the Messiah who now is and who yet shall be. We speak not alone of a dead Christ who was known to them of old, but of a living Savior who leads his people today as he did anciently. We rejoice not alone in a people who had the gospel in ancient days and who worked miracles and gained salvation, but in a gospel that now is and in a people who glory in the same gifts of the Spirit that were poured out upon their fathers. Thanks be to God, the day of restoration has commenced. These are the times of restitution of which all the ancient prophets spoke. (See Acts 3:21.) Thanks be to God that the heavens have been rent, that the Father and the Son appeared to Joseph Smith, that revelation and visions and gifts and miracles abound among the true Saints. Thanks be to God that in our day many have seen the face of his Son and that he has poured out the gift of his Spirit upon an even greater number. This is the day when the knowledge of the true Christ and of his everlasting gospel is being preached among men for the last time. This is the day in which the Great God is sending forth his word to prepare a people for the second coming of the Son of Man. This is the day in which the Church of Jesus Christ has been organized anew and given the commission to administer that holy gospel by which salvation comes. 7. Christ—The Millennial Messiah And now in words of soberness we announce that the Lord Jesus, the Everlasting Christ, the Savior who was and is and is to be, shall soon come again. Just as surely as the son of Mary came to dwell among his fellowmen, so shall the Son of God come, in all the glory of his Father’s kingdom, to rule among the sons of men. In that dread day the world that now is shall end; wickedness will cease; every corruptible thing will be consumed. And the glory of the Lord will shine daily upon all men from the rising of the sun until it sinks in the western sky. Those among us who abide the day of his coming shall find joy and peace everlasting. The faithful Saints shall live and reign with him on earth for a thousand years and shall then go on to their celestial rest. The second coming of the Son of Man will be a day of vengeance and burning and sorrow for the wicked and ungodly. For those who love the Lord and live his law it will be a day of peace and triumph and glory and honor—the day when the Lord comes to make up his jewels. (See Mal. 3:17.) And so now, knowing whereof we speak, having a sure knowledge born of the Spirit, we raise our voices in praise and testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ, whose witnesses we are. Our faith is centered in the true and living Christ, who is our Friend, our Lord, our God, and our King and whom we serve in worshipful adoration. We know he is God’s almighty Son, that he has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, and that all who believe in him, as he is now revealed by living prophets, shall be saved with him in the kingdom of his Father. We invite all men everywhere, all men of every nation and kindred and tongue and people, to come unto Christ and be perfected in him. We invite all men to come and worship the Father in the name of the Son by the power of the Holy Ghost. And as the Lord’s agents, acting for and on his behalf, we promise all who pursue this course—working the works of righteousness—that they shall have peace in this life and eternal life in the world to come. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, amen. -Elder Bruce R McConkie

I certainly can't question Dr. Paul's conservative credentials. I do however question his leadership abilities. As for the GOP......it is indeed up to the members to change the direction of the Party. Dr. Paul is still an ® I think......and I respect the fact that he has remained and chooses to try to make change by influencing others to respond to conservative ideals.....unlike others who bailed.....like Buchannan. I disagree with you about our foreign policy.......I think it is the foreign policy of other Governments that has got us into the mess we are in. It is a dangerous world...... i don't have the answers and I am not sure anyone else does either. I can't imagine how frustrating it mut be to have to confront an enemy that is really an ideology rather than a people.

I agree. The last Presidential Administration (1992-2000) and the current Administration have done little to slow the over arching reach of Government nor have they done anything to retard the ever increasing size of government. I have high hopes after the most recent ® convention and hopefully they have got the message loud and clear. Les is more in government and a return to real conservatism is way over due....IMO, and probably won't be immediate. Let down... you bet. And the current Congress is not surprisingly a huge let down as well. I am not sure we have the greatest deficits in US history as a percentage of GDP, but high deficits for sure. 911, Iraq, Afghanistan, Homeland Security Department are all contributors to higher deficit spending.......whether one agrees with the necessity of any of these things after 911 or not. I personally do agree with the necessity.....perhaps not the methods or outcomes. Medicare spending bill.....huge waste and unnecesary. I hope the new Administration find a Veto pen. Close the Dept. of Education and give parents choice in Schools...all for it. Is government bigger now than a decade ago...yes, but 911 encouraged much of that growth. A final comment on deficit spending........ deficit spending can be good and bad. It really depends on the specifics.....National defense, infrastructure or severe economic recession are viable reasons for deficit spending. Deficit spending for wasteful expenditures like the Medicare bill or ever increasing of the Nanny welfare programs, etc and the grand give aways to Countries that hate us is bad. No, I haven't read any of the speeches. I hope we have a huge resurgence in the conservative movement....true conservatism. I don't think to highly of Dr. Paul...even though he is a conservative ®. I hope the youth will get involved and change the GOP into a true force for smaller Government.

There are a lot more Americans who aren't decieved in to believing that we don't have liberty and freedom.......and many who have been dying in defense of our liberty and freedom.

Our faith really hinges on whether or not the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be.......and whether Joseph Smith did indeed see Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. The Journal of Discourses, while very interesting to read, is not considered official church doctrine or scriptural canon. I wonder what we might think if we could hear some of Moses's or Abraham's sermons or private speculative conversations or even Paul's?

I agree Misshalfway........the Plan of Salvation is simple enough for all mankind, even children, to understand and accept. Our greatest example of how we should pattern our lives and of what we can become is the Savior himself. He passed through this life, working out his own salvation and passing through trials and death, was resurected to eternal glory and ransomed mankind from the fall. All we must do is have faith in him and obey his commandments....and one day we can become like him. Pretty simple.