bytor2112

1st Corinthians Ch. 11 verses 7-12 7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. From D&C Section 131, verses 1-4 1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; 2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this border of the priesthood [meaning the new and deverlasting covenant of marriage]; 3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. 4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase. From D&C Section 132, verses 19-20 19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

I guess I was a bit "snipity" as well.......sorry:) Perhaps my opinion should have been more like this: NormalMormon, Congratulations!! The Sealing is a very spiritual experience...at least it was for me. I do, however, disagree with your premise that men are more prone to commiting sins like pornography, etc. The Atonement was wrought for all humankind, male and female alike. We all sin and as such cannot return to the presence of our Father without the Savior's atonement and repentance. My wife had issues with polygamy as well. That being said, it is my personal belief polygamy was for a righteous purpose then and at some point in time in the eternities, if we still measure time, I believe we will all understand the righteous purpose behind it and all of our Father's designs and plans. As for the issue of equating legalizing "gay" marriage with polygamy, I can only ay that one is an immoral act, a sin, and the other is not. Polygamy is however illegal and not practiced in the church today, other than in the eternal sense as I posted earlier. I wouldn't get hung up on these kind of issues. The Gospel is a beautiful thing and as we grow spiritually, like Funkey monkey said, the Spirit teaches us sacred truths about things like polygamy, Joseph Smith, etc. .......as we are prepared to recieve it.

"I'm fixin' to" is real big in the South.......

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! Could you please post the statistics???!! Um, women still manage to stay away from porn? I am not a porn expert, but I imagine men look at porn to see the women who are in the porn?? Pheww.... I am with Vort on this one!! I don't think his history was sketchy at all and the church IMO is perfect. The people aren't. And yes many things have yet to be revealed to us..... but I think you had better come to grips with what has thus far been revealed to us. Um, your logic is badly skewed. A man may be sealed to more than one woman in this life, if his wife predeceases him. Polygamy or plural marriage was revealed by Heavenly Father to Joseph Smith...it is of God and not a sin. Homosexuality is a sin. "By gosh, they should allow gay marriage between consenting adults????!!!!!

Hi Tammy, I am fortunate to attend a very loving ward. Awesome members. When I started three and 1/2 years ago I wasn't so sure. Understanding why I go to Church every week, the Sacrament, etc, helped me to not lose focus. Over time these strangers have become my family and closest friends. I hope you will find the same experience...hang in there...the Church is true.:)

Is this your comment Guitarwizard or someone else's? History is usually written with a bias based on the core beliefs of the author. People who are not members of our faith see our history in a much less favorable light than we do. I think it is wise counsel from Elder Oaks, we should be careful where we dig for information. I personally believe that if those who leave the church had spent as much time reading the scriptures and praying as they did reading the "alleged" truths about the Church History they wouldn't have left. Church history is great...but peering at 19th century history through 21st century lenses can be very confusing and in no way leads to Eternal Life. Beware the mists of darkness.....

"I know, as do we all, that the things of God can only be understood by the power of the Holy Spirit....."- Elder Bruce R McConkie. The debates are endless, but this statement is so true. Obviously this RM forgot this or didn't know it to begin with. Whenever I come across things about the Temple that make me scratch my head, I always remember the Spirit that I have felt and I realize that when it is time for me to understand I will. But for now the Spirit let's me know that it is ok. Any concerns about the endowment that I have had, were always answered by the Holy Spirit immediately upon entering the Celestial room. The things of God are glorious indeed.

From an earlier post of mine: People leave for many reasons, not just because of some perceived quirk with LDS history. Some of the reasons I have thought of include: 1. Never feeling worthy. I have heard this often that some never feel good enough because they are surrounded by so many seemingly "perfect" people. 2. Impossible standards. Some people feel that our standards are just to difficult to live by and they will never measure up and they always feel "guilt" over their past even though they have repented. 3. Ward members are cliquish. Not enough fellowshipping and welcoming of new members. 4. No testimony. They were living off someone else's testimony....like the missionaries. 5.Feeling like the Church consumes their life. Time, etc. 6. Temple. Some have gone to the Temple and been put off....maybe they weren't really ready. They don't understand garments and the other requirements. 7. The Church system of "Judges in Israel". Some members fear their Bishops and don't really get that he is there to help. 8. Not really understanding the doctrine. They find what seems to be an easier path, "saved by grace". 9. Historical issues definitely play a big part...especially with the internet. 10. They just don't like the church and want more "entertainment" for their Sunday worship service. 11. They just don't think it's true......God wouldn't have restored his church via such a historical mess. Just my thoughts......

PC....I always enjoy your posts and meant no disrespect to you or your beliefs. So, how is one taught to speak in tongues? I am glad you are dead set against it....but what is the process they use? May I ask... and if this is to personal or sacred I totally understand, have you ever spoken in tongues? My initial question is to determine why this phenomena occurs....primarily in these type of churches. I have read other posts suggesting that it occurs within the LDS church......if it does I have never seen it or heard of it and it is certainly not something that is taught with regard to the meaning of the gift of tongues. I have seen it first hand in Pentecostal churches.....seen people running around the building, falling on the floor, etc. I have seen TV preachers touch someone on the forehead and they immediately fall to the floor and appear to overcome by some presence. I personally believe that these TV evangelists are putting on a show.......using flamboyant excitement, passed of as spiritual experience. Rod Parsley comes to mind, Creflo Dollar Bennie Hihn and others who either speak what is described as tongues or talk about it. Thanks for your explanation regarding the Pentecostal faith.... I was really wondering why it is not found in the Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. Why wouldn't God manifest himself in the same manner in order to prevent confusion. Isn't there enough confusion already?

Ok...so what sets Pentacostals and Charismatics apart from Baptists or Lutherans? Is it the manner in which they pray or worship? What is it that invites the "tongue of Angels" to the Pentacotals and Charasmatics? If it is indeed from God, then does the believer have to render there tongue or are they overcome by this experience of God? I didn't suggest demonic influences, I just said that I didn't believe the experience is from God. Maybe some type of religious fervor or hysteria....I dunno. Just trying to understand PC....just trying to understand. There are a few churches here where I live that teach it's members how to speak in tongues.

I have spent lots of time in drawn out, heart felt prayer, petitioning my Father in Heaven for wisdom, knowledge....forgivness, etc. I have spent a great deal of time in the Temple and never once have I been overcome by the Spirit and spoke in tongues. Why would the Lord manifest himelf in this way? What about those who pray about the BOM or the church and don't recieve an answer. I can't believe that these kind of occurences are from God.

I know that many early converts brought in to the church beliefs and practices that were not in tune with the restored Gospel. I have witnessed people speaking in tongues and other such "spiritual" manifestations and they seemed anything but spiritual. Perhaps the "spirit" that was speaking through them is other than holy.

Things to ponder....... 1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye, And then continue onward With that same speed to fly, Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity, Find out the generation Where Gods began to be? 2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend? Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end? Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’ Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.” 3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound; Improvement and progression Have one eternal round. There is no end to matter; There is no end to space; There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race. 4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might; There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light. There is no end to union; There is no end to youth; There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth. 5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love; There is no end to being; There is no death above. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love; There is no end to being; There is no death above.

You mean ...we're not??????? Uh-oh

I leave several times every week........

In our faith (LDS), the gift of tongues is often given to Missionaries when going to a foreign mission. The TV evangelists seem as though it is more for entertainment value. I am not sure that what goes on in other churches that speak in "tongues" is from God.

From an earlier post of mine: People leave for many reasons, not just because of some perceived quirk with LDS history. Some of the reasons I have thought of include: 1. Never feeling worthy. I have heard this often that some never feel good enough because they are surrounded by so many seemingly "perfect" people. 2. Impossible standards. Some people feel that our standards are just to difficult to live by and they will never measure up and they always feel "guilt" over their past even though they have repented. 3. Ward members are cliquish. Not enough fellowshipping and welcoming of new members. 4. No testimony. They were living off someone else's testimony....like the missionaries. 5.Feeling like the Church consumes their life. Time, etc. 6. Temple. Some have gone to the Temple and been put off....maybe they weren't really ready. They don't understand garments and the other requirements. 7. The Church system of "Judges in Israel". Some members fear their Bishops and don't really get that he is there to help. 8. Not really understanding the doctrine. They find what seems to be an easier path, "saved by grace". 9. Historical issues definitely play a big part...especially with the internet. 10. They just don't like the church and want more "entertainment" for their Sunday worship service. 11. They just don't think it's true......God wouldn't have restored his church via such a historical mess. Just my thoughts......

But why?? Why do some receive a witness of the Spirit and others, like Otterpop and MIke_UK, do not? Do they seek the spirit less than others, are they just going through the motions and the Lord doesn't let them know? My best friend is an inactive member and is way out in the world, but recently he asked for a blessing and he felt the Spirit very strongly. He is not living the gospel at all and yet felt the Spirit, why not those who are living it, yet don't?

I have watched TV evangelists "speak in tongues" while preaching and I have visited Pentacostal Churches where this is very common as well. Why would the Lord want someone to speak a foreign tongue while preaching? Is it of God or something else? Is it just made up to elicit excitement from the congregation?

Interestingly through the Sealing we will have the opportunity to claim wayward Children who repent.... I wonder if we can claim a wayward spouse who repents......

Why does the ship built by Nephi differ from the barges built by the Jaredites......or does it? The description sounds like a primitive submarine. Why does the Lord ask Jared how the barges are to be lighted? Is he testing his faith? I wonder how big the air holes are......any thoughts? No windows? Did glass as we know it exist back then or was that just a term used to describe something else?

Digital THC.......is that breaking the Word of Wisdom??:D:lol:

We believe that Salvation must come to all mankind exactly the same way. From Adam to our time present. Every person who has ever lived or will ever live will have the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel, to enter in the strait gate, whether in this fallen sphere in which we now live or in the Spirit world after they pass from mortality. Each will have to accept Jesus Christ, repent and be baptized. This is why we perform sacred ordinances like baptism in Holy Temples around the world. The Savior himself was baptized to "fulfill all righteousness". Confusion and contradiction still prevails in Christendom over how mankind is to be saved because of Christ's Atonement. One of the many reasons for the restored Gospel. To be a Christian.... to be a follower of Christ.... to be saved..... to recieve salvation because of the grace of Jesus Christ, because he drank of the Fathers bitter cup and bore our sins, our griefs, sorrows and afflictions.... we must strive to live his example."if you love me, keep my commandments." If we love him, if we are his.... we strive to keep his commandments. Is this salvation by works? Or is this being a true and faithful servant of the Savior of mankind? We all must come to salvation in exactly the same way. Same ordinances. One faith, one baptism. God is perfect and as such it could be in no other way.

Mike, I think that the answer to Moroni's challenge come 's at different times, not necessarily when we are expecting it or wishing for it. The Spirit testifies to me through feelings and impressions. The "feelings" are a tangible presence of something very Holy. It makes you feel a peace that is beyond description, a joy that transcends any I have ever known and a comfort that is so familiar and so loving that it can only be from God. It comes as a witness to my prayer about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, not necessarily at the time I pray, but at other times, like when I attend a baptism, when I sing a sacred hymn, when I share my testimony or when I have unexpectedly done something nice or charitable and often when I read from the Book of Mormon and the Bible. The answer came as to whether or not the church is true when I confessed my sins to my Bishop and it comforted me and let me know that I was doing the right thing. I have had many Sacred, spiritual witnesses at various times, but one thing I have found to be true...... it seems to be more frequent and powerful when I am REALLY seeking the Lord and living the way he has asked. The Lord knows when we are sincere and when we are only acting well rehearsed routines. I think some of us aren't ready to receive and live the truth or appreciate it fully, so Heavenly Father allows us to to learn, sometimes by letting us walk down dead end roads and dangerous paths so that we can fully appreciate what it is all about and how wonderful the Atonement truly is to each of us and how transcendent and unmatchless his love is for all of his children. Don't venture to far, the path back is often much more difficult and painful than the journey down the wrong road ever was.........

MA....you sound like an ignorant bully. Some of the terms that you choose like "snivel" engender nothing but contention. I seriously doubt that there is anything Christ like about you. Perhaps you should repent and find some humility. I guess you learned this by peering into a crystal ball? Imagine that, no Mormon wants to play in the arrogant bullies sand box...can't imagine why!! Perhaps we don't care to "cast our pearls before swine". If you read the introduction to the Book of Mormon it states in part, "The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fullness of the everlasting gospel." In 2 Nephi, Ch. 29, we read why the need for the Book of Mormon, "7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also. 9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever. As for studying the scriptures...... we seek the Holy Spirit for guidance... I doubt that you even know what that is.....to teach us sacred truths. Again, you wouldn't understand..... Again not wanting to cast pearls before swine. MA you are an arrogant, self aggrandizing, bully. Judging by your posts you would struggle to articulate any type of clear, understandable thought or idea, much less be able to expound on any serious matters of doctrine, Biblical or otherwise. Why don't you try a little humility, a little love, a little gentleness of nature and dare I say a little courtesy. Regardless of what you believe about our faith, we hold it to be Sacred and Holy. I hope you feel the same way about your beliefs and if you do, allow for others to feel that as well, regardless of your opinion.