Justice

Why does a difference in opionin or belief automatically mean someone is trashing a person? This is getting more and more prevalent in today's society, and I think one of Satan's tools. It keeps the people who understand truth from wanting to express it and "offend" those who teach incorrect principles. I think it's time those of us who know truth forget that we may be offending the professors of untruth. The night of the election, after it was over, I asked 5 people at work what they thought of the election results, and 3 of them said something to the effect of, "Well, I don't want to offend anyone, but I was disappointed. But there's nothing we can do about it now." It is this fear of offending others that made us sit back while they removed prayer from schools, the 10 commandments from the courthouse, legalize abortion, permit same-sex marriage, on and on. Those pushing Satan's agenda don't care one bit who they offend or what freedoms they take away, as long as they get what they want. They candy coat it with things like "we should be able to choose whether or not we give birth." Well, then we should be able to choose whether or not I come into your house and rob your belongings and threaten your family. Afterall, it's freedom to injure others they're after, isn't it? I think we need to stop worrying whether or not we are offending others when we speak what we know is true, or push God-centered agendas. The time has long past. I'm not a Democrat, Republican, or any other party. The only organization I have allegiance to is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I vote principles when I cast my vote. In fact, I voted for 3 Democrats, 3 Republicans, and 4 people belonging to other smaller parties in my local elections. So please don't misunderstand my words as criticizing any party or person individually. I do what I can to stand against anything I believe to be untrue.

That's an awesome scripture. It sounds like you have your hands full. This may not be news but sometimes it helps to hear it again. You can't live your kid's lives for them, all you can do is the best you can do. If you honestly feel you are then there's nothing more you can do. If you don't, then identify where you can do better and set some goals to make those things better. Start small and slow. No one knows your kids better than you do. I tell my wife all the time that she needs to learn to say no to other things at times, no matter how good the cause, in order to spend more time with her kids. She has a lot going on and needs to slow down. Nothing really is as important as those kids.

Just go to the chapter and verses I mentioned where Lehi died. Assuming he passed Nephi the plates sometime before his death (hours, weeks, months) it sure appears that Nephi started his writings in remembrance of all the Lord did for him, since the first thing he would have done after getting the plates was read them. His "song" to the Lord sure looks like a good starting point.

I believe Nephi didn't write this when he was a young age. The plates were in the hands of his father up until his father died. If you look at 2 Nephi 4 where Lehi dies, you see, what I beleive, is the start of Nephi's writing. Assuming Lehi gave Nephi the plates sometime shortly before he died, and assuming Nephi read them, it seems his heart would be full of memories of his travels from Jerusalem, and he would remember all the things at once that the Lord did for him. This is why, I believe, Nephi started with his "song" to the Lord. Starting in verse 20 and picking up in verse 30, it reads as if Nephi just read his father's writings and he is writing for the first time on the plates. I don't think he would start "I Nephi, having been born..." and with leaving Jerusalem knowing his father already wrote about it. There was no reason for him to duplicate what was just written. I believe the Lord told Nephi later that he needed to re-write some of the things his father wrote "for a wise purpose unto the Lord." So, with this perspective, with Nephi looking back many years, it seems much more logical to begin the way he did, and it makes more sense why he would mention his age and stature (because he was looking back). Many times when we tell stories of our youth we say how young and what size we were. It could have been Mormon who reordered Nephi's writing chronologically. Just my observation.

Okay, here's where I'm going with this: I was reading in Mosiah, and I was reading King Benjamin's final words to his people... Mosiah 4: 9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend. Simply believe a few basic things about God: 1. Believe He is the Creator. 2. Believe He knows and understands all things needed in order to save and exalt man. 3. Believe that if God speaks something we don't have to understand it in order to believe it is true; just believe that God cannot/does not lie. 10 And again, believe that ye must repent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in sincerity of heart that he would forgive you; and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them. Once we believe those things about God, then read the word of His Gospel and do them: 1. Repent of our sins. 2. Forsake them; sin no more. 3. Pray in humility for forgiveness. 4. Seek continual prayer. If you do this; you will receive that. That is the format of all promises from the Lord. Now, the same thing spelled out in different words so we can understand at our our own level: 11 And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, calling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel. Then the promise: 12 And behold, I say unto you that if ye do this ye shall always rejoice, and be filled with the love of God, and always retain a remission of your sins; and ye shall grow in the knowledge of the glory of him that created you, or in the knowledge of that which is just and true. If we want to always remember Him and retain, always, a remission of our sins, it is done by learning to pray always. For example: I was speaking to my Elder's Quorum President, and a good friend, and he said he doesn't watch movies very often anymore. When he watches movies he only watches G and a few PG rated movies. But, he only watches those, now, when he is watching with his kids and there's a principle that can be taught to his kids. I was astounded at his reason for not watching them. He explained that everyone has their weaknesses, which he believes are those things given to us that take our mind and focus off the Savior and His Gospel. He said when he watches a movie he goes 2 hours focused only on the movie. One day at the end of a movie he realized he just wasted 2 hours and didn't think about the Savior or His Gospel once. He realized then that movies weren't for him. He realized that, for him, it was a powerful tool Satan uses to "take his eyes off the Savior for a moment, like he did with Peter when he was walking on the water." I think there is knowledge in there somewhere that we can all learn from. I wonder if this "Word of Knowledge" is a series of teachings that the Nephites used to "always retain [Christ] in rememberance," so that they could "retain a remission of sins daily." This is only done through constant prayer.

Ahhh. I was leaning more toward THE Word of Wisdom, and how it is a law to live by for physical well-being... ..and I wonder if THE Word of Knowledge may be something that was known among the Nephites as a law to live by for spiritual well-being. Perhaps something that we are unaware of yet in this time. Maybe something on the plates that we have not been allowed to see yet... possibly in connection with the Law of Consecration. Or, maybe we have it as separate commandments but it's not known to us as a group or "Word" yet. Maybe I should have been more specific.

Moroni 10: 9 For behold, to one is given by the Spirit of God, that he may teach the word of wisdom; 10 And to another, that he may teach the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; I get the word of wisdom. I wonder what Moroni meant by the word of knowledge?

Good comments MarginOfError. I don't have much to add other than I believe there is a power in fasting and service that we haven't begun to realize yet. Many wonderful things are promised through service, and fasting seems to be the way to deal with the tougher issues. So, mainly, I just echo what MoE said.

TOM!!! I had a scripture all ready, cut into clipboard and ready to insert with comment... Moroni 8: 24 ...repentance is unto them that are under condemnation and under the curse of a broken law. 25 And the first fruits of repentance is baptism; and baptism cometh by faith unto the fulfilling the commandments; and the fulfilling the commandments bringeth remission of sins; 26 And the remission of sins bringeth meekness, and lowliness of heart; and because of meekness and lowliness of heart cometh the visitation of the Holy Ghost, which Comforter filleth with hope and perfect love, which love endureth by diligence unto prayer. If you follow this through these verses, it paints a clear picture of the steps to sanctification. Read this scripture over many times very slowly and let it sink in. Note that how we "remain" is through constant prayer (ref. Elder Bednar's latest talk). I don't think it's necessarily speaking about prayer for others (although that's a very good point). I believe if we follow Elder Bednar's counsel for how to pray it will keep us where we need to be. It will help us resist tempation far beyond our own capacity... and that's really what we all need.

Ahhh... thank you for the clarification. I wasn't sure whether or not the small plates were abridged or not. Thank you.

Very good answers bytor. Welcome Sly.

What they have to accept is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Our Ward gets together this time of the year and "celebrates" fall and we have a chili and pie cook off. Good stuff, Maynard! Anyway, I was asked to give a talk at this get together, and I've been toying with this idea. Let me know what you think: The Book of Mormon. A very small percentage of the world’s population understands why or how the Book of Mormon got its name. I trust that most of you know. (Ask Brother _____—Mormon abridged the records) That’s right. Mormon abridged the records, so the entire Book of Mormon was written by his hand, except for 2 chapters in the book he wrote, which is named after him, and the abridgement of Ether, and then what chapters Moroni, his son, wrote. Mormon was a remarkable man, and what little we know about his life story is incredible. At the age of 10 he was approached by Ammaron, who we assume was the High Priest of the Church, or the Prophet, because he was given charge of the sacred records, or all the plates held by Nephi and all the prophets up until Ammaron. When Mormon was 10, Ammaron approached him and told him that when he was 24 he needed to go recover the records which he buried in a hill named Shim. So, at 10, he was told the location of the plates, and he was entrusted with a great secret, because Ammaron “perceived he was a sober child, and quick to observe.” At the age of 15 he was “visited of the Lord.” At the age of 16 he was put in charge of the entire Nephite army and led the army in a huge campaign against the Lamanite army. Later, presumably when he was 24, he recovered the plates that had been buried by Ammaron. He led the Nephite army for many, many years and witnessed many, many thousands of deaths of his people, many of which were his good friends. He mentioned 3 of these friends by name to Moroni in a letter he wrote to him. The Nephite army under his command grew more and more wicked, so much so that at one point he refused to lead them and stepped down as their leader. Later, after they lost many battles, he wrote that he repented and returned to lead them again. He wrote that leading them was a lost cause because the spirit had ceased to strive with them. The Lamanite army hunted and killed them all across the land. As the Nephite army came across a town or city they instructed all the Nephites in that town to join them, or follow them, because the Lamanite army was right behind them. Those that didn’t follow swiftly enough were hewn down and trodden under the feet of the Lamanite army. Mormon said: And it came to pass that we did again take to flight, and those whose flight was swifter than the Lamanites’ did escape, and those whose flight did not exceed the Lamanites’ were swept down and destroyed. He also wrote: And it is impossible for the tongue to describe, or for man to write a perfect description of the horrible scene of the blood and carnage which was among the people Finally, they came to the hill Cumorah. He wrote a letter to the leader of the Lamanite army and asked if they could have sufficient time to gather all the Nephites in one place on the hill. Now, the Nephites were so outnumbered that the leader of the Lamanite army agreed. After they were all gathered, Mormon writes this: Chapter 6: 7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them. 8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers. 9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war. 10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst… 12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni. 13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst. 14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each. 15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even aall my people, save it were… twenty and four... Mormon wrote about the Nephites: 19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen! 22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy. Then he wrote to the Lamanites: … if it so be that God may give unto them my words, that they may know of the things of their fathers; yea, I speak unto you, ye remnant of the house of Israel; and these are the words which I speak: ...repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus, and lay hold upon the gospel of Christ. Moroni, in his writings, included 2 letters that his father, Mormon, wrote to him. Here are the last words we have written by Mormon, which were at the end of the second letter to Moroni, in the Book of Mormon: 25 My son, be faithful in Christ; and may not the things which I have written grieve thee, to weigh thee down unto death; but may Christ lift thee up, and may his sufferings and death, and the showing his body unto our fathers, and his mercy and long-suffering, and the hope of his glory and of eternal life, rest in your mind forever. 26 And may the grace of God the Father, whose throne is high in the heavens, and our Lord Jesus Christ, who sitteth on the right hand of his power, until all things shall become subject unto him, be, and abide with you forever. I am thankful for Mormon. Not for just abridging the plates, but for the example he was during perhaps the most difficult time in Nephite history. I believe it was right to honor this man by naming the Book of Mormon after him. I am thankful for the Book of Mormon. We all have reason to be thankful for the Book of Mormon. It has changed our lives. It has made us different. It has given us hope unto faith in Jesus Christ. It teaches us the truth about God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. It gives us the knowledge and teaches us how we can be with our families forever. It has given us angels and prophets on the earth today. And because of it, we have been shown the right way. I am thankful to Mormon for everything he did in bringing us this book and everything that came along with it. We all have reason to be thankful.

There's a little bit of that stuff in there I mentioned about how the Book of Mormon actually enhances the translation of Isaiah in the Old Testament. I wish I could find the book I have.

Where does "kneel" fit in? In case you didn't see it: In the very first verse I quoted, I didn't highlight it, the multitude was kneeling as they prayed, and Christ also knelt down. They were praying, and that was what brought all these things to pass. If you've noticed Elder Bednar's talks in General Conference, you will see that he has followed the pattern of Alma. Alma had taught the poor among the Zoramites about a seed, and how it relates to the word of God. He taught many things, all of which Elder Bednar has been speaking about in conference. Here is a good verse that summarizes the things Alma and Elder Bednar have been speaking about: Alma 32: 42 And because of your diligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the fruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst. Without getting into details and making a long post about topics and how they relate, this verse summarizes Alma's teachings, and Elder Bednar's talks in conference... up until this last one, where he spoke about praying always. Remember? Well, watch, also, what Alma does after his teachings: Alma 33: 1 Now after Alma had spoken these words, they sent forth unto him desiring to know whether they should believe in one God, that they might obtain this fruit of which he had spoken, or how they should plant the seed, or the word of which he had spoken, which he said must be planted in their hearts; or in what manner they should begin to exercise their faith. It is clear the people didn't really understand Alam's words. They sent someone to him and asked him "is there just one God, or will Christ, the Son of God, really come?" They didn't know what to think about all this and exactly how to do as Alma had instructed them to know if Christ was the Son of God. So, Alma's answer to them can apply to any of us if we have the same question. Their question was how? Alma answers with the words of Zenos: Alma 33: 4 For he said: Thou art merciful, O God, for thou hast heard my prayer, even when I was in the wilderness; yea, thou wast merciful when I prayed concerning those who were mine enemies, and thou didst turn them to me. 5 Yea, O God, and thou wast merciful unto me when I did cry unto thee in my field; when I did cry unto thee in my prayer, and thou didst hear me. 6 And again, O God, when I did turn to my house thou didst hear me in my prayer. 7 And when I did turn unto my closet, O Lord, and prayed unto thee, thou didst hear me. 8 Yea, thou art merciful unto thy children when they cry unto thee, to be heard of thee and not of men, and thou wilt hear them. 9 Yea, O God, thou hast been merciful unto me, and heard my cries in the midst of thy congregations. 10 Yea, and thou hast also heard me when I have been cast out and have been despised by mine enemies; yea, thou didst hear my cries, and wast angry with mine enemies, and thou didst visit them in thine anger with speedy destruction. 11 And thou didst hear me because of mine afflictions and my sincerity; and it is because of thy Son that thou hast been thus merciful unto me, therefore I will cry unto thee in all mine afflictions, for in thee is my joy; for thou hast turned thy judgments away from me, because of thy Son. 12 And now Alma said unto them: Do ye believe those scriptures which have been written by them of old? 13 Behold, if ye do, ye must believe what Zenos said; for, behold he said: Thou hast turned away thy judgments because of thy Son. Let this answer given by both Alma and Elder Bednar be a guide and testimony to us of the importance of prayer. Not just prayer, but turning our hearts to God in prayer always. And, let us remember that it is because of Jesus Christ AND our continual prayer that we are given mercy. Only through continual prayer can we "cease to be idle" and "have an eye single to the glory of God."

I have been eternally blessed as I have read the Book of Mormon this time. I am seeing SO many things that I've never seen before. Also, I'm seeing the things I understood before in a whole new light. As I can I'll post a few of those things that I think might make good discussion. I noticed many distinct differences between the 1st and 2nd time Christ gave the people the Sacrament. I'll post the 1st time in blue, followed by the same event the 2nd time in Red. All of these verses are taken from 3 Nephi. See what you think. Christ had finished teaching them many things, including how to baptize, and ordained the 12 to baptize. After these teachings, here is a little background of what was happening to give proper setting, the blue before the 1st time He gave the Sacrament, the red before the 2nd time: 17: 15 And when he had said these words, he himself also knelt upon the earth; and behold he prayed unto the Father, and the things which he prayed cannot be written, and the multitude did bear record who heard him. 17: 17 And no tongue can speak, neither can there be written by any man, neither can the hearts of men conceive so great and marvelous things as we both saw and heard Jesus speak; and no one can conceive of the joy which filled our souls at the time we heard him pray for us unto the Father. They felt joy but apparently didn't understand what Jesus said, because their "hearts couldn't conceive of it." Interestingly, this was before their rebirth. Watch... 19: 31 And it came to pass that he went again a little way off and prayed unto the Father; 19: 32 And tongue cannot speak the words which he prayed, neither can be written by man the words which he prayed. 19: 33 And the multitude did hear and do bear record; and their hearts were open and they did understand in their hearts the words which he prayed. 19: 34 Nevertheless, so great and marvelous were the words which he prayed that they cannot be written, neither can they be uttered by man. This time their hearts were opened and they understood. Keep in mind they were baptized between the 1st and 2nd times they received the Sacrament, which I will not quote, but you can read for yourself in chapter 19. 17: 18 And it came to pass that Jesus spake unto them, and bade them arise. He asked them to rise. Then then the fire came down and encircled their "little ones." Chapter 17 ends with this setting saying the multitude did see it and bear record of it. 18: 1 And it came to pass that Jesus commanded his Disciples that they should bring forth some bread and wine unto him. 20: 6 Now, there had been no bread, neither wine, brought by the disciples, neither by the multitude; 20: 7 But he truly gave unto them bread to eat, and also wine to drink. 18: 2 And while they were gone for bread and wine, he commanded the multitude that they should sit themselves down upon the earth. 20: 2 And he commanded them that they should arise and stand up upon their feet. And they arose up and stood upon their feet. 18: 3 And when the Disciples had come with bread and wine, he took of the bread and brake and blessed it; and he gave unto the Disciples and commanded that they should eat. 18: 4 And when they had eaten and were filled, he commanded that they should give unto the multitude. 20: 4 And when they had eaten he commanded them that they should break bread, and give unto the multitude. 18: 5 And when the multitude had eaten and were filled, he said unto the Disciples: Behold there shall one be ordained among you, and to him will I give power that he shall break bread and bless it and give it unto the people of my church, unto all those who shall believe and be baptized in my name. 18: 8 And it came to pass that when he said these words, he commanded his Disciples that they should take of the wine of the cup and drink of it, and that they should also give unto the multitude that they might drink of it. 18: 9 And it came to pass that they did so, and did drink of it and were filled; and they gave unto the multitude, and they did drink, and they were filled. 20: 5 And when they had given unto the multitude he also gave them wine to drink, and commanded them that they should give unto the multitude. 18: 10 And when the Disciples had done this, Jesus said unto them: Blessed are ye for this thing which ye have done, for this is fulfilling my commandments, and this doth witness unto the Father that ye are willing to do that which I have commanded you. 20: 8 And he said unto them: He that eateth this bread eateth of my body to his soul; and he that drinketh of this wine drinketh of my blood to his soul; and his soul shall never hunger nor thirst, but shall be filled. 20: 9 Now, when the multitude had all eaten and drunk, behold, they were filled with the Spirit; and they did cry out with one voice, and gave glory to Jesus, whom they both saw and heard. The scriptures say "to him who has ears to hear, let him hear." I believe the differences between the 1st and 2nd time He gives them the Sacrament are remarkable. If you consider the main difference between these people from the 1st time until the 2nd time was what transpired in chapter 19, it is even more remarakble. What happened in chapter 19? They were baptized with water, yes. But, what happened to them? We have been baptized with water. Can you see the significance of this and how it "relates to us in our day?" When I noticed these differences, at first, I didn't notice that He asked them to sit before the 1st time He gave them the Sacrament, and to arise (or stand up) before the second. Do you hear the song "Rise Up, O Men of God" playing in your head? Also, as a side note, see how the "little ones" did not have to go through the baptism process before they were "filled with the Spirit?"

Yes. On the surface, as I ponder this topic, I feel there's no way I could ever be ashamed. But, if a group of men showed up at my door on a cold winter's night with tar and feathers, breathing threats, I wonder... I pray for strength to endure as often as I remember, which I'm afraid isn't near often enough. I am giving serious effort to heed the message in Elder Bednar's latest talk about praying always, and in all things.

What Joseph Smith meant, or the way I understood it, was that "MAN existed forever," so we are "of" something that has existed forever, so we will exist forever... since we were born of eternal lineage. Logic has to prevail sometimes. This is one of those times. If "every man, including us," has existed forever then we would all be at the same stage of progression. We would either be saved or damned "at this moment" since we know some are exalted and perfected "at this moment." It's clear that some are created or born at different times than others. It would also mean there would be no more new "men" come into existence so we will not be able to have offspring in the eternities, as has been promised. Things that are revealed must fit into revelation and truth already given.

Also, sometimes when people are bearing their testimony or giving a talk, they close "in the name of Thy Son, Jesus Christ..." like they are closing a prayer. I'm sure it's just nerves!

Good one Skippy! I'm wondering how doughnuts ever got to be a "breakfast food" and not a "dessert." One thing I notice, that's not wrong, is that when good people set members apart for callings and such that they say "by the authority of the Melchezidek Priesthood, and in the name of Jesus Christ..." and then proceed to close the setting apart "in the name of Jesus Christ..." It's certainly not wrong, and maybe serves a point. But, sometimes I feel people think you *have* to say it both times.

No, but I'll look for it.

I tried this on one of my "Bible-believing Christian" friends one time... *Faith* without works is dead. They said their preacher taught them that James wasn't an inspired work and therefore is secondary, and if anything contradicts it then you put it before James. I had no response. In fact, I was rather speechless.

By way of promoting faith, a group of people took the Isaiah chapters that appear in the Book of Mormon and translated them to Hebrew and compared them to the the Isaiah chapters from the Old Testament in their Hebrew form. What they found was short of astounding. They were able to determine how some of the mistakes were made in the Old Testament book of Isaiah, and were also able to show how the Book of Mormon Isaiah chapters were a more accurate rendition of the Hebrew. They identified some Hebrew shortcut methods and abbreviations that changed the Old Testament book of Isaiah. I don't remember the exact name of the book I read it in. We are moving and it is packed away, so I can't find it. But, it was something like "The Isaiah Chapters."

My sentiments tied up neatly in a package with a pretty bow.

I believe 24 was Adam's words, or if they were Moses' then Adam felt it or knew it also. 25 is stating a truth to clarify a few things, I beleive. 25 had to be Moses writing what he saw or felt inspired to write, but does not change the fact that he was writing about Adam and Eve's condition. And, yes, the motivation for Eve partaking the fruit was to have offspring, which is what she desired. She made a choice between 2 commandments, one being a sin of omission and the other of comission. Both commandments could not be obeyed. Adam loved Eve, and his choice was to be with her. But, exactly what may have allowed an immortal body "fall" to a mortal one is found in these verses. Very interesting indeed.