Fiannan

Don't sweat over it. The US Supreme Court ruled in the 1980s that you can tape something on a VCR off the TV if it is for your own use. Nowadays people have DVD recorders so the way I see it if a movie has been on TV then the assuption should be that it could have been recorded anyway. As for the gift thing I think it is tacky -- I just would not do it. I wouldn't want to get a book copied on a copy machine and I think the same is applicable here. As for the related issue of downloading that depends I suppose on what the laws are in the country you live in. In some countries it is okay as long as you don't share files and don't copy materials to sell.

Muslim is spared a speeding ban so he can drive between his two wives | the Daily Mail Just wondering if a Christian had two wives in Britain would the courts be pretty tolerant of him?

Okay, my frame of reference is Scandinavia and Finland (not Ireland or southern Europe). However, is Britain all that high in knowing about basic religion? I mean a recent survey in Britain found that about a third (correct me if I am wrong here) of the people surveyed thought Winston Churchill was a fictional character and that Sherlock Holms was real.

Give it up -- trying to explain the difference between ultra-traditionalist Mormons and general Mormons is like explaining the difference between Shia and Sunni Muslims. The press cannot really be faulted for making no distinction. The Olympic games back in 2002 could have been a great missionary tool. However, our message was hampered due to some morons in Utah going after Tom Green and making the polygamy issue bigger than life. Face it, if you are a journalist and have the choice of doing some story on Utah life or a guy with several wives being persecuted by (ironically) the government of Utah then what are you going to choose? And believe me, the Green story was all over the press in Europe and the Europeans know pretty much nothing about Christianity, much less Mormonism so every story I saw stated that Green and other polygamists were Mormons. So on this one don't blame the liberal press -- blame the "Idiocracy" crowd that runs Utah for firing a direct hit into the missionary effort in 2002 and any ramifications that has followed since then!

If a person believes Mohammed is a prophet, and everything he said was true, is he a Muslim or something else?

The government lied? Oh Heaven's, not the grand US government! The government never lied about a little thing like the Golf of Tonkin -- I mean, that could have gotten us into a big war in Asia and cost us 58,000 men. No, our government never lies. Oh, and the US government never lied about "accidentelly" blowing up the Chinese embassy in Belgrade during "Operation Stained Dress", did it? Fieldmarshal Reno did not have to use the force she did to go after Koresh. Did the government use this kind of force in regards to the polygamist sect last week? No. A standoff was set up by the "Keystone Cops" of the US government and Reno was getting tired of this story blazing across the TV every night on the news. That's why force was finally used. Also, to blame the victims of Waco is kinda like a friend of mine who I was traveling with who said "Hey, these monks who started the protests against China...I mean, you make a stink with the Chinese government and you get what you deserve!". Kinda the same concept in regards to Waco.

No, not really. There were a lot of egos involved all the way up to Fieldmarshal Reno. What should have been a relatively easy apprehension of a guy on weapons charges (which could then have allowed authorities to check on the validity of any child abuse cases) it turned into a standoff that would have embarassed Chinese authorities. At the same time we sent men ill-equipped to Somolia there were scores of highly armed federal agents and even armored vehicles. Come on...this was a joke that showed at least the incompetence of the fieldmarshal if not her ultimate overlord in the whole fiasco. The results speak for themselves -- dozens of innocent people dead. And it wasn't the only case -- look at the murder of that guy's wife and son by federal agents in Idaho. The policies at that time speak for themselves.

Sorry, that was the official whitewash from the government. Consider this: You can read commentary here: Waco Fire Report [Free Republic]

An unpopular religious sect in Texas? Good thing Janet Reno wasn't in charge -- we know what the feds did to all those children in Waco!

First, the whole thing about a veil over the face. One could ask, what is the function of clothing anyway? Since the days of Adam and Eve clothing served a ritualistic and symbolic meaning for humans. Even in ancient Egypt, where women often wore silks that were transparent and didn't really hide anything, the clothing itself took on a meaning. In modern society businesses seek to replace meaning with brand names -- buy this and that and belong to our group. The veil is a ritual, it is symbolic of covering the woman and then she uncovers herself before her new husband. Read into this whatever you want but it does lend to the specialness of the marriage. Sure, one could do what they did in the old Soviet Union (or many in modern day Soviet Sweden) and go in your street clothes to the local magistrate and take a marriage oath and get a legal marriage contract but what is so special about that? Our society has done away with rituals (fertility, rites of adulthood, mystic rituals, etc.) but that does not mean we don't long for them...something more meaningful than the everyday. An interesting quote: Joseph Campbell Joseph Campbell - Mythic Reflections Opps, gotta go...I will address the other questions later.:)

This link should work: The Century Of The Self - Part 1 of 4 - By Adam Curtis Again, each and every family in the Church should watch this with their family -- parts 1 -- 4.

Mugabe is a madman that is for sure. However, what do people here know of Kenya's Odinga? That guy would truly be scary if he came to power.

Say what?

Well Elphaba, just wanted to let you know I agree with your analysis of polygamy except I think there are some women who would not find reasons for jealosy. Also, as opposed to the 19th. Century, I think there are many people open to lifestyles that are unconventional -- like going back to OT family values. As for your post Elgama, I agree that modern lifestyles would be better suited to polygamy than even the 19th. Century was. There are a lot of women who have to forego having children or have to go to sperm banks to get the gift of children. I believe that career women and women who are a bit unconventional who want families could be drawn to this lifestyle as much as traditional mistresses were drawn to men in Latin America, Russia and southern Europe in the 19th. Century. In that lifestyles women often know their husbands had additional lovers and that those lovers were also bearing his children. There were even customs that said how these relationships should be maintained. The only difference between such arrangements and polygamy was that in Mormonism the man was supposed to be married to all his sexual partners. By the way, if you discovered you had a great, great, great grandfather from Brazil, and he had a wife as well as two mistresses who he had families with, could you seal all three of the women to him in the temple?

I do have to applaud nations like England and Sweden where courts are starting to take action and treating bullying as a criminal offense...and something that can be taken to civil court as well. I know a lot of admins feel the bullied kids should just learn to fight back, but that is not possible in many situations. I do remember reading something from Jack Anderson a long time ago. He wrote a piece on polygamy and told of a kid who was getting picked on by a big kid in high school. The littler guy challenged the big guy to a fight after school one day and said he would bring his brothers and the bully could bring his. Little did the bully or his family realize the victim was from a polygamist family and when they showed up for a fight the little guy had 30 of his brothers ranging in age from high school to guys in their 30s who proceded to smash the bully and his brothers into the ground. See, polygamy can lead to good things as well as happy endings to stories.

Excellent post RachelleDrew, I could not agree more. KayaLove00, everyone has trials of their faith...heck, one minute one can be on the top of the world sporitually and the next minute question everything -- it's human nature. A friend of mine and his wife went through a very trying period of life to where she got really angry at the Church and went so far as to burn all her temple garmets. He was never really a Peter Preisthod type of guy but he stayed strong in his testimony and eventually she saw his devotion and came around back to devotion. When my wife's grandfather was going to join the Church his wife would hide his shoes before he went to church. It finally got to the point that she took out papers for divorce and would have filed them had it not been on a holiday the day she went in to make it official. A few days later she planned on doing it again but started reflecting as he said he loved her but would not quit the church. She came around and jined and became very devout. Pray, fast and maintain a supportive relationship with your husband. Encourage him to study and ponder the scriptures and church doctrine -- in my experience when I started noticing problems in teachings at one point in the history and what was said nowadays I just did tons of research but my faith actually increased as I learnt more and did my studies with the guidance of the spirit. Encourage him to visit this forum and share his thoughts and concerns, I'll bet he's a great guy and smart and this is a time that will pass in regards to doubt.

Anyone hear that the Iranians have produced a film about the life of Christ similar to "The Passion"? It looks interesting -- you can have the choice of endings, one follows the Islamic view of Jesus in that God tricks the crowd and they crucify one of their own thinking they are killing Jesus (while God takes Jesus into Heaven directly), while the other ending shows the Christian view. ABC News: Story of Jesus Through Iranian Eyes

Okay, let's put it this way then -- if the kid being bullied was black, and the kids bullying the child constantly were making racial slurs and chanting "Hey, hey, we love the KKK" what do you think...would the school administrators find a way to end the assults?

A Boy the Bullies Love to Beat Up, Repeatedly - New York Times At least the parents are taking this to court. Many school administrators could not care less about preventing criminal assult in their schools. It's time for parents of victims to take cases to court and when schools start losing money they will do something about it.

Ever consider how the news is doctored and manipulated? Prior to the invasion of Kuwait, Saddam was presented as a pro-western and enlightened leader -- afterwards, he was Hitler. In the 1990s Serbia was presented as the embodiment of evil -- such was not the case in reality. Now Iran is getting the treatment -- but with friends like China it's unlikely the US will violate internatinal law and bomb them.

I'm not riping Israel but didn't Ariel Sharon once say that Israel controls America? Also, I am merely pointing out that Iran is not on some crazy or evil quest to get nukes just for the sake of having nukes. Iran has Pakistan on one side, Israel on another and a United States that has shown it has no hesitation in breaking international law (Operation Stained Dress -- Clinton's bombing of Serbia in the '90s). If you were Iran would you not desire nukes for self defense?

Yes, it is brutal..but taking that into account drives the point home even mre about how much Jesus had to suffer for the entire plan of salvation to take place. Many men of history are admired but how many volunteered to undergo such a horrific death for the benefit of others? Likewise, most of the original apostles sealed their testimonies of Jesus in blood and endured horrible executions for the faith. I had my teenagers watch it two years ago.

I could not agree more. Iran is not in any way associated with Bin Laden -- the Sunni extremists, especially Wahabi-ists, hate Shia Iranians as much as they hate Christians. Iran helped the US in the war against the Taliban and then the US government, probably doing the bidding of Israeli government leaders, turned on Iran and called them part of the "Axis of Evil". As regimes go the Iranians are a Jeffersonian democracy compared to Saudi Arabia. Iran does not pour money into the coffers of mosques around the world which specialize in promoting hate against the infidels. People of non-Islamic background can serve in Iran's government while a non-Muslim cannot even be buried in the "holy soil" of Saudi Arabia. Let's look at Iran's position. Iran started agressively developing nuclear weapons after Clinton bombed Serbia during Operation Stained Dress -- they didn't want to be the victim of a similar violation of international law. Iran is near Pakistan which may any day fall tot he same Taliban-types we threw out of Afghanistan (and then they would have nukes). Israel has at least 200 nuclear bombs -- how would we feel being non-nuclear with Cuba having nukes?

Now that's a great question.

Thanks Pam. I am home now. I'll address the riots in general discussiom.