FlaviusHambonius

How is my point or comparison invalid?--what I was trying to put across was that both had wronged a person or persons--in Kennedy's case Mary Jo (which you brought up as the first person he might run in to in the afterlife) The same holds true for Paul who many consider the greatest Apostle--but the fact remains he wronged a group of people. Yes Paul did indeed turn to Christ but after what? If I remember right God struck down Paul on a roadside and appeared to him. I'm sure that if Kennedy had the same thing happen to him, he might have knocked the boozin and the womanizing off a lot sooner and perhaps the chappaquiddick tragedy would not have happened after an all night party. The Kennedy's (most) believed in public service in different capacity's--serving their country--so maybe by serving their country and fellowman they believed it was serving a higher cause if it helped out their fellowman in some way. I'm sure with all the turmoil and chaos associated with the Kennedys that Ted turned to Christ many times in his life--it has been said that he was a firm believer in redemption. As far as him expecting the Catholic church to fall in line with his views--well I'm out of the loop on that one, although I find it kind of laughable. It would sort of be akin to the Mormon Church falling into the views of Harry Reid--of course I'm guessing you might be talking about social issues and not doctrinal issues regarding Kennedy. I find it quite pathetic of the Catholic Church if they have not sent condolences.

So nothing good came from the Kennedy family? i.e. if I'm understanding your statement correctly. I suppose it's nice to have an opinion...but dead wrong....in my opinion.

If you really do 'feel' for this man don't worry about his accounting--worry about your own.

I wonder if some of the first people that the Apostle Paul beheld was the many Christians that he willingly persecuted?

I was able to watch Ted Kennedy's memorial service on T.V. today and enjoyed the comments from the speakers but especially the heartfelt comments from Ted Jr. about his Father. I'm sure that Ted Kennedy would be the first to tell you that he had weaknesses and faults and made many mistakes in his personal life. I'm sure that he would tell you that he had much darkness in his life due to some of those choices he made. But I also think that he would tell you that there's hope in the light apart from the darkness as he surely believed in redemption. He strived to be a good patriarch of his immediate and extended family during times of chaos. He strived to serve his country according to his beliefs. He was blessed with a wife who according to him 'saved' him from many of his weaknesses. It's kind of funny to watch human nature--we have a political commentator by the name of Glen Beck who was a self-proclaimed cocaine addict--alchoholic--womanizer--arrogant, crusty SOB for years--but yet he finds the church, changes his ways, marries a good woman, becomes a family man, does a few fireside chats with tears in his eyes and all the sudden he is the cats meow to most Mormons--he is one fine outstanding hunk of Mormon man--he will probably by his association with Mormonism will be the catlyst to persuade individuals to investigate the church and possibly convert--who knows? But old Teddy who was trying to change his personal life for the good and seemed to be seeking for the light, especially the last several years of his life--well, we will have people within the church and without--that will still only judge him because of his drinking, womanizing and for driving off a bridge with Mary Jo, 40 years ago. Was he wrong for not reporting the incident for more than 9 hours?--yes, dead wrong. Did he try to do everything to save Mary Jo after the car went into the water? Only Ted Kennedy and God know that. Did he drive of that bridge on purpose? Obviously he was impaired from alchohol which I know is not an exuse but a fact. Try living with that for the rest of your life on your conscience--not real easy I'm sure.

Here's some comments from fairmormon-- Since the time when Brigham Young taught that both the moon and the sun were inhabited by people, has the Mormon church ever found scientific evidence of that to be true? (Journal of Discourses (1870), 13:271) In Brigham (and Joseph's) day, there had been newspaper articles reporting that a famous astronomer had reported that there were men on the moon and elsewhere. This was published in LDS areas; the retraction of this famous hoax never was publicized, and so they may not have even heard about it. Brigham and others were most likely repeating what had been told them by the science of the day. (Lots of Biblical prophets talked about the earth being flat, the sky being a dome, etc.—it is inconsistent for conservative Protestants to complain that a false belief about the physical world shared by others in their culture condemns Brigham and Joseph, but does not condemn Bible prophets.) In any case, Brigham made it clear that he was expressing his opinion: "Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is." Prophets are entitled to their opinions; in fact, the point of Brigham's discourse is that the only fanatic is one who insists upon clinging to a false idea. Joseph Smith/Moon inhabited - FAIRMormon

I would seriously consider the military option because, 1. You will be fed. 2. You won't have to pay rent. 3. You don't need a drivers licence. 4.You will have a steady paycheck. 5. You can save up your money for education while not paying rent or food. (I also belive they have reinstated some sort of GI Bill--I don't know for sure) 6. Try to choose a skill you have an interest in while in the military that will serve you when you get out. 7. You will grow up real quick and learn to make decisions for yourself. 8. You will learn how to adapt to certain situations and working with others. 9. You will learn how others depend on youl. 10. On those times you spend your money foolishly (if you do) you will still have a place to sleep and eat.

I thought the names Al Yankovich and Adam Sandler were banned from this game

Love Me Do---The Beatles

Josh, Nix to the missionaries advice--I wouldn't wait until I was on a mission and then tell my mission president, because that would seem to burden a person, I know it would me. I wouldn't want that issue hanging over my head. If you have given as much as you can--then I would leave it at that. You only have a month--so I think I would try to focus on thing's that needed to be. But maybe your missionary buddies are on to something--it seems as though they're approach is to wait until your mission is underway before you tell your MP--I think they're definitley wrong in what to appears to be they're reasoning--I doubt very highly that the church would ever send missionaries home due to financial reasons--but it does indeed have a blackmail face to it. IMO I've never served a mission, but if I was in your situation, I would want a clear conscience--not cluttered up with questions like: 'did I do the right thing' If the church wants to send you now-- they will send you. I wouldn't worry about the financial aspect. Or you can wait another year and save all the mula you can--but as you said before, it would be far from enough most likely. I also agree with bigtime with what beefche stated about the responsibility being with the Bishop as far as approaching the congregation for financial assistance. From what I have read from some of the posters is that some of them recieved greatly appreciated support from the ward/church, only to reciprocate the favor and blessing and in many instances--many times over. Seems like a cycle of goodwill to me. It's too bad the extreme was from one end of the spectrum to the other as far as the Bishops--it also seems to me that the preceeding Bishop had some sound advice. No disrespect to your current Bishop intended--but I'm sure the church has enough money to send a worthy servant out in to the world to testify of Christ.

Wind of Change---The Scorpions

That would be inacurate to say, since Hordak said that 'This is true' I remember listening to the tapes of Paul Dunn while in Seminary classes in High School in about 1974, and it was facinating to hear about his so-called war stories. Then in the late 80's I remember going to hear him speak in the Ogden Tabernacle and was again facinated. Only a short time later did all of the 'embellishing' reports come out. If I recall correctly Paul H. Dunn also indicated that he had played proffesional Baseball with the St. Louis Cardinals for a short time---there is no record of it, as far as I know. So obviously, there is a lot of 'urban legend' about Paul H. Dunn or should I say 'was'

He deserves to be excommunicated-- This jackass of a man even told the police that his daughter was lucky that he had not killed her. Apparently this church-going Dad had not heard about the scripture of the Saviour talking about how it would be better to have a millstone hung around his neck. As if it wasn't sick enough to slam into his daughters head a piece of concrete after what I'm sure was a terrifying chase up the street and back home--then this church-going Dad kicked her in the face. Excommunication and a few years with Bubba in the Big house--end of story.

Not IMO-- It should be much longer than that--perhaps when he goes to jail or prison--Bubba will remind him why it's not very nice to hit his daughter up the side of her head with a piece of concrete and I will go out on a limb and say that Bubba will reciprocate the favor to the Dad--Bubba will be slapping him up the side of his head with something--but I don't think it will be a piece of concrete--unless of course Bubba got some Viagra smuggled in to him.

Yea, this is probably what his 'stress' was about that his laywer refered to-- he probably couldn't handle the stress of being 'pissed off' that he was booted out of anger managment classes--what a class act.

Sun King--The Beatles

I saw the movie 'New York Doll' a few years back and loved it. I thought it was great how Buster sang these songs in tribute to Arthur after he had passed--a man who went from one end of the spectrum to the other.

She wouldn't dare--and crush all the dreams of us red-blooded single guys--blasphamy!!

I don't think it's so crazy--I read awhile back where Abraham Lincoln's fiance before he married Mary Todd -- was sealed to Abe--I don't recall her name but supposedly Abe was madly in love with her. I think the sealing took place after Abe's death.

After I wrote the opening post I went and ran a couple of errands. On the way home I was listening to KSL radio and I heard someone talking about a new book from Deseret Book--Grant Neilson was doing the talking about people who have the problem of commiting the same sins over and over and I said to myself--wow this sounds familiar from earlier today--and lo and behold, the new book he was talking about was called 'The Continuous Atonement' by Brad Wilcox. The talk he gave on the video was from 5/3/07--I guess he decided to write a book on it--I guess I know what my next book is going to be. No I did not have this pre-planned.

A few months ago as I was waking up from napping on my bed with the TV still on BYU Broadcasting station--I just caught the tail end of a talk given by Brad Wilcox and his daughter Wendee. The last few words caught my attention and made my ears perk up even though I was still a little sluggish as I reached for pen and paper to write the date and name of the talk so I could look it up on byub.org web-site. The last few words that got my attention was Brad saying "I hope you will remember the spirit that has touched us, comforted us, and testified to us--that we have a Saviour who covers us--a Redeemer who transforms us and a Good Shepard who is willing to go in search of us--again, again, and again--continuously. A few months passed by and I still had not looked up the talk. Today the thought hit me and I looked it up and listened to it-- the talk was called 'Faith, an Anchor For The Soul' From the minute I started to listen to this Father/Daughter talk I was immediately taken in and focused and felt the spirit wash over me at various times--overcome by the spirit may be a better way of saying it. Some of the threads that I have read seem to state that once we repent with true remorse in our hearts--whether through just us to our Father or perhaps even a confession to our Bishops included--that that act alone is supposed to alleviate the problem (the sin)--- (yes I know that's the short version) the fact remains that many of us fall once again or many times with the same sin. I know the hope and goal is to turn away from the sin and become a new person in Christ but for some it becomes a long and difficult journey to become a new person--whether it be drugs, alchoholism, pornography, tobacco, eating disorders, caffein and a myriad of other addictions. My point is that when people fall off of the horse or take one step forward and two steps back--they start feeling like they have failed (they have)-- they start having the guilt overcome them again--instead of dusting yourself off and getting back on the horse and start moving in a positive direction--they become frozen in remorse and anguish and hopelesness. A snippet of Wilcox from the video: "Knowing that Christ makes the difference, doesn't mean much, unless we also realize how often he does it. The miracle of the Atonement is that he will forgive our sins--'Plural'-and that is not just 'Multiple Sins'--but also multiple times we commit the same sin." Of course we don't condone sin-- Joseph Smith clearly taught that repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Still the same Jesus who forgives those who know not what they do-- will also forgive us who know exactly what we do--and just can't seem to stop. Christ commanded us to forgive others 70x7--and we don't think he's going to forgive us, more than once? The young RM (that Wilcox spoke of when he was a Bishop) said: "So what your saying is that there is still hope for me?"-- Brother Wilcox said: "Now your begining to understand grace." Wilcox goes on: In 1 Cor 15:9 we read that there is always hope in Christ. Elder Maxwell called the gospel 'Inexaustable'--perhaps that's a good word for the Atonement as well. The inexaustable Atonement--we hear many words associated with the Atonement--we hear it as infinite, eternal, everlasting, perfect, divine, incomprehensible, inexplicable--we even hear that it is personal, individual--However there is another word that must be closely associated with the Atonement if we are ever going to maintain hope in this world full of addictions--and that word is--'Continuous'--The Continuous Atonement' Anyone interested in the 40 minute video here it is. http://byubwmv.byu.edu/wconf/2007/WC2007Wilcox.wmv

I can't add much to the great advice already given--but I will say that when you mentioned that 'I try to help others when I can't help myself'--is partly untrue--because I think that by trying to help others you are indeed helping yourself--even though it doesn't seem so, because you probably fall back into some of the traps once again--and get discouraged and down on yourself--as many of us do. Don't ever give up--once you fall off of the horse--stand up and dust yourself off--put your foot back in the stirrup and climb back on that horse--and try to pull the reins in the direction you want to go.

I think your right Carl--even though I said the Bishop. I think the most important thing is Intervention--especially with one that is trained professionally in these areas. I would hope that even if he went to the Bishop first--that the Bishop would suggest some of the things you have. The problem it seems--that the Father has no intention of doing either--so I think the son needs to give the Father the ultimatum of going to a Therapist/Counciling groups or else the Son needs to spill his guts to the Bishop--I'm sure eventually the Father will have to confront the Bishop about these things irregardless of the order, and I still think he needs to be removed as the Scoutmaster--pronto. I don't necessarily like the idea of the 'Tattle Tale' approach either as someone mentioned earlier--but it just doesn't seem like the Father is going to take action and I think that somekind of intervention will likely keep the Dad out of the can--if the possibility of the Dad turning into a pedophile is there--then I think the Son is doing him a favor--even though I'm sure there will be some bad and hurtful feelings in the beginning. There is definitley no easy approach to this problem--the embarassment of the Father would be overwhelming in a detailed confession to the Bishop. But to continually trod under foot the Saviour with these behaviours is much more to worry about-- and have guilty feelings about--we are all guilty of sin in various ways and degrees--we all have our skeletons in the closet--at least I do.

Like I have been saying for the last few years--we better start learning Chinese--do they still sell the Rosetta Stone online?

I hear ya Carl, 'Double Fantasy' was a great album after taking a 5 year hiatus from the music biz. Lennon said he very rarely even picked up a guitar or played the piano during those 5 years. I think he still had some great music left in him--just look at Sir Paul--still going strong at 67 with his love for music. I wonder if he had lived and the royalty would have given him the title 'Sir John Lennon'--if he would have accepted it or not--I think he started to mellow a little bit later on in his life and would have probably got a kick out of it--but who knows? Maybe John and George are working on some new songs with a 'Heavenly Flair' added to them. :) A great book to read if your a Beatles fan is called 'The Beatles' by Bob Spitz--although it's 856 pages long--it has the good, the bad, and the ugly in it.