Vort

I'll bet I read the Book of Mormon more than a dozen times before I put together the facts outlined above. I've read the book more than two dozen times, and I am now reading it with my wife and also in personal scripture study (along with my children in seminary), and literally every day (when I'm concentrating and reading with the Spirit) I learn important new things, some small and some large, from the text. I know some who claim to have read the Book of Mormon a hundred times, who say they still glean new meaning on each re-reading. I do not doubt it. I have never read any book like the Book of Mormon. The Bible is similar, but even that is not the same. (Though I have not read the Old Testament all that much, and I have heard that it is much like the Book of Mormon in density of meaning and teaching. I think I have read the Old Testament through three times, and never with a really concentrated effort at studying it.)

Answer: It was nearly a year between the destructions at crucifixion of Christ, the vapor of darkness, and the voice from heaven (those events lasting three days) and the coming of Christ among them. 3 Nephi 8:5 "And it came to pass in the thirty and fourth year, in the first month, on the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land." This verse begins the destruction of the wicked at the Lord's crucifixion, lasting three days. 3 Nephi 10:18 "And it came to pass that in the ending of the thirty and fourth year, behold, I will show unto you that the people of Nephi who were spared, and also those who had been called Lamanites, who had been spared, did have great favors shown unto them, and great blessings poured out upon their heads, insomuch that soon after the ascension of Christ into heaven he did truly manifest himself unto them" Christ showed himself to the Lehites "in the ending of the thirty and fourth year", but his crucifixion took place "in the first month, on the fourth day of the month" of that year. Ergo, almost a year between the crucifixion and the apparition. So the famous painting of Christ appearing to the Nephites while their civilization lay around them in ruins from the earthquakes and destructions of moments or, perhaps, mere days before is in error. (Hope that doesn't shake anyone's testimony...)

Interestingly, the English word "good" (which might have the same IE root as "God") is etymologically related to the Middle High German gatern, meaning "to unite", and the Sanskrit gadhya, meaning "what one clings to". I have wondered if we can really determine a root definition for what is good. It seems so culturally dependent that I sometimes despair of finding a rule by which all things can be confidently judged.

By the way, it wasn't very nice of you to give trivia questions while I was driving to work, so that I couldn't play. Meanies.

Excellent point. However, one might argue that Jesus' 40-day ministry with his apostles after the resurrection was not 40 days of 24-hours-per-day presence, so Jesus might conceivably have gone to several places during that time. So that observation alone may not be enough to establish that it was more than 40 days later. (Not that other evidence is any more convincing, but the overall weight of evidence does suggest a sort of minimum time.) I'll be working the rest of the day, so I might not get back to this conversation until tonight or tomorrow.

(The most literally correct answer to this is, of course, "We don't know because the Book of Mormon doesn't specify." I'm asking for the best estimate based on information given in the Book of Mormon.) In establishing the answer to the above question, here is another, somewhat easier: What was the exact offense involving the prophecies of Samuel for which the Lord chastised the Nephites at his appearance to them?

Welcome, Connie! About how long after the crucifixion, destruction, and voice from heaven did Jesus Christ appear to the Nephites?

DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!! We have a winnah! Alma 32:28 "Now, we will compare the word unto a seed." This is an important, though oft-overlooked, doctrinal point. Alma 32 does not tell us to "grow the seed of faith". Rather, it is the WORD of God (which, according to John, is Jesus Christ, and which I think is more generally understood as the preaching of the gospel) that must take root in our heart. Faith is the nurturing care we give to the seedling as it grows, until it becomes a mighty tree that can withstand the elements.

I am, too. Throw some questions my way!

Excellent guess! I suppose that probably 90% of Church membership who answered at all would say this same thing. We even have a Primary song about it: "Faith is like a little seed..." Unfortunately, it is not correct. Any other guesses? (Pam, are you the only one playing?)

I think you understood the question perfectly. Alma had a son named Alma, Helaman had a son named Helaman, and Nephi had a son named Nephi.

Yes, that's correct. The elder Helaman is the "father" of the "sons of Helaman", while his son Helaman took over the chief judgeship upon Pahoran's and Pacumeni's murders. Helaman the younger's son, Nephi, was the brother of Lehi, and one of the truly great and powerful prophets of the Book of Mormon. Nephi's son, Nephi, became one of the twelve Nephite "disciples" of Christ.

My understanding is similar to MoE's. Satan's only "plan" was to usurp God's glory and destroy the agency of man. The idea that Lucifer was deeply concerned for his spiritual siblings and only wanted what was best for everyone is nonsense.

Yes, it is Alma, Alma, Helaman, Helaman, Nephi, Nephi. I have provided scriptural references for each, if you want to look them up. Rather interesting genealogy.

The central book of the Book of Mormon is Alma, and the central chapter of Alma is chapter 32. In this chapter, Alma invokes the familiar Book of Mormon imagery of a tree. This tree grows from a seed, which is mostly what Alma talks about. What does the seed represent?

Pam mentioned Alma. Starting with the first Alma, the lineage is as follows: Alma: priest of wicked king Noah; repented at the preaching of Abinadi (Ab'n Adi, son of Adi), founded a church, led the righteous remnant back to the Nephites, established the Church there. Alma (Mosiah 27:8): Wicked and idolatrous man who, unlike almost everyone else in recorded history, actually repented when confronted by an angelic messenger. Desired to preach the gospel as an angel (Alma 29), and quite possibly was granted his wish (Alma 45:18-19). The book of Alma is named for this man. Helaman (Alma 31:7): Led a group of Lamanite young men, sons of those Lamanites converted by his father. Helaman (Alma 63:11): Received the Nephite record from his uncle Shiblon and published it widely among the Nephites. Became chief judge at the murder of Pahoran's sons, Pahoran and Pacumeni. The book of Helaman is named for this man. Nephi (Helaman 3:21): With his brother Lehi, called the Nephites to repentence, then went among the Lamanites, receiving miraculous protection. Prophesied the murder of Seezoram and the culpability of Seantum. Called down the powers of heaven to inflict a massive drought on the people, stopping a war and causing them to die like flies. Definitely someone better to have as a friend than an enemy. Wandered off and was never seen again... Nephi (3 Nephi 1:2): Led the Nephite Church through the dark period of civil unrest when the people, under the able judgeship of Lachoneus, were subject to attack by Gadianton robbers, and later when the government completely dissolved. Became one of the twelve Nephite "disciples", functioning as virtual apostles to the Nephites. Was taken into the presence of the Lord immediately upon his death, or else was granted a state of "translation" in order to live perpetually among the peoples until Christ's return. (Given the missionary bent of his ancestry, my money is on the latter possibility.) The books of 3 and 4 Nephi are named for this man. So three of the sets are Alma, Helaman, and Nephi. The fourth is actually Mormon himself (Mormon 1:5).

"At what point in their history did the Nephites leave the land of Nephi?" New day -- time's up! It was during the reign of Mosiah, father of king Benjamin. Omni 12-13 reads: "Behold, I am Amaleki, the son of Abinadom. Behold, I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness— and it came to pass that he did according as the Lord had commanded him. And they departed out of the land into the wilderness, as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord; and they were led by many preachings and prophesyings. And they were admonished continually by the word of God; and they were led by the power of his arm, through the wilderness until they came down into the land which is called the land of Zarahemla." This is important in the narrative for at least two reasons: It marks the beginning of the union between the Nephites and the so-called Mulekites, or people of Zarahemla.It set up the conditions for a part of the people to try returning a few years later back into the land of Nephi, which of course led to that part being led by wicked Noah, subject to bondage, and then freed and, two or three generations later, rejoining the main Nephite group in Zarahemla.

Alma: Correct Mosiah: Sorry, they were grandfather/grandson Lamoni: Good try, thanks for playing :) (You should have guessed "Anti-Nephi-Lehi") Hint: You're in the correct family tree for some of the others. Actually, that might well be a correct answer. I am specifically looking for the first time the Nephites abandoned the "land of Nephi".

"At what point in their history did the Nephites leave the land of Nephi?" Anyone biting on this?

Pas moi, mon frere.

Just got impatient, Pam.

Can the gospel be separated from its effect in people's lives? Ought it to be? Are not the ordinances of salvation, the brotherhood of the Saints, and a peaceful, loving family life all part of what it is to "know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent"?

Name four Book of Mormon father/son pairs (not including Joseph Smith :)) that shared the same name.

At what point in their history did the Nephites leave the land of Nephi?

King Benjamin. Helaman (II) named his sons Nephi and Lehi, named after "his fathers", so that kind of counts.