Vort

I would like that. (Seriously -- no smiley.)

I thought so, but I don't understand the wording. You said that it helped you to understand the principle by realizing that we don't earn salvation through our works, only mercy. But if the mercy we "earn" through our works is in fact the mercy of salvation, then...

If the mercy we receive through obedience to Christ is not salvation from death (temporal and spiritual), what is that mercy? I can think of no other mercy we receive from Christ, except things related to our salvation, like forgiveness of sins.

True enough. My point is, a thread like this will not represent a cross-section of people's experiences, because many people will self-select out of it. In fact, an argument could be made (though I am not making it) that such things are sacred in their very nature, and thus ought not be discussed at all. I expect there are at least a few who feel this way. Not trying to rain on your parade. Just offering some observations.

Maybe it is an important distinction, but I'm not sure why. Isn't the mercy we receive the very salvation of which we speak?

Revelations, like any profound literature, can have multiple meanings and interpretations. Section 77 does indeed give an important and true interpretation for John's vision, but whether it is the interpretation or merely an interpretation among many, I don't know. I do know this: John's Apocalypse is like no other book of scripture I have ever seen, LDS or otherwise. Not even Isaiah approaches the LSD*-like gyrations of the book of the Revelation of John. Honestly, if it were not for Joseph Smith affirming that it is a revealed work of great depth, I might just assume it's an account of some bizarre, drug-induced trip. *As in lysergic acid diethylamide; not a misspelling of LDS, as in Star Trek IV: Save the Whales. :)

Scripturally, nothing. The two terms are interchangeable. In wider Mormon usage, "transgression" suggests lack of accountability. In other words, according to this usage, it is possible to "transgress" a commandment without actually "sinning" (because you don't have knowledge of the commandment, and thus are not accountable for obeying it).

Is this it?

Makes you wonder whether calling someone a "vegetable" is really an insult? I may look relaxed, but at cellular levels I am very busy.

Such a thread would indeed be interesting and eye-opening. However, I expect that many Latter-day Saints that read this will not be willing to publish such sacred and intimate experiences on an open forum.

I'm so sorry to hear it, prospectmom. I have not experienced anything similar, so I can only sympathize from a distance. I hope you are insured; pictures and memories are not easily replaceable, but at least the insurance keeps you from suffering a crippling financial blow (hopefully). Not trying to be flip, but I wonder if such a thing might not be a blessing in disguise, especially if you are insured. I have sometimes thought that a fire might be the solution to much of our household disorganization. Though the years, I have accumulated so much stuff that just ends up as clutter or packed away in storage, never to be seen, that an enforced getting-rid-of episode might just free me up.

Oh, it's a fun, fun thread. Nothing like the marble backsides of kneeling presidents to signal "Fun times for all!"

I disagree. I hate European courts. They are as corrupt as the day is long. This is the same mentality that the German courts show when jailing parents who homeschool and not allowing parents to hold their children out of pro-homosexuality classes and such. I don't necessarily agree with the parents' decision to allow their daughter to sail around the world, but this is outside the borders of the country. It's not like they're selling her into prostitution in southeast Asia or letting her do drugs abroad (which, ironically, might well be legal). This is purely a case of a government deciding, without compelling cause, that it can parent a child better than the parents.

That's rather unkind to make fun of me like that. It's the Speedo, isn't it? I told my wife I shouldn't wear the Speedo, but she insisted.

I understand and sympathize with your thinking, but I disagree. To use an example I used recently: Suppose I believed that the heavens consisted of an inverted opaque blue bowl, and that stars were simply holes in the bowl through which the heavenly light outside the bowl shines through. How much success would I have considering questions about distances between stars, or stellar motion, or the influence of gravity on such bodies? Not only would my understanding be so warped as to preclude getting any meaningful answers, but I might very likely come up with questions that make no sense at all -- questions like, Are there cracks in the bowl that connect stars near each other? Without a reasonably accurate model of the stars, the planets, the galaxy, and the universe, many or most of the questions I ask on that topic cannot be answered meaningfully, and in fact I might not even be asking meaningful questions. Similarly, until we have a much better understanding of the mechanics of the creation of souls and the origin of individuality, I don't believe we can even ask meaningful questions about such things, much less formulate or understand the answers to them. I agree that such questions might be answered with what you're searching for, but the fact remains that we have never been given the fundamental knowledge to answer or even understand such things. Any "answers" we come up with would be highly unlikely to bear any resemblance to actual reality. Is it better to give bogus, meaningless "answers" to try to help people, or simply to tell them up front, "We don't understand why these things are, but we do know that we are of infinite worth and that God loves us, so don't give up!"? The latter seems to me a better alternative.

I'd rather be rich than stupid.

Your question is reasonable, but as it's a question about mechanics, it is not answerable. We do not know the nature of spirits or of spiritual creation.

I agree with you, beefie. I was just joshin' around.

Not so, Beefche. Here's a post on Page 3 asking her about her parents.

Thank heavens someone laughs at my jokes. Have you been talking to my wife? She's usually the only one who laughs. Well, she and my 14-year-old.

What parts of the restored gospel and of the kingdom of God do we enjoy today that are not taught (overtly) in the scriptures?

When bodybuilders own people:

When bodybuilders own cattle: