guitarwizard

There isn't really a good reason we are labeled as a cult. We believe we are the only true church of Christ on the earth, and that we are actually the church He established restored. This doesn't sit well with others. Generally we are happy. If that seems cult like, then label us as a cult. We are just happy because we have recieved great blessings from our lord and savior.

I received this question from a friend last night as "one to sleep on." I quickly answered "Well, all the scriptures of course. And all the words of the prop…well i guess everything the apos…well, what 70s sa…" and then i realized, that is a tough one. What is doctrine? So, i turned back and said "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" To which he replied "So just revelations that say 'Thus Saith the Lord?'" So that is my question to you. What is doctrine. What can we count on as solid, 100% facts? Of course, my friend was playing the devil's advocate in this, just trying to make me think. He did.

There is a flaw in that statement. If you believe the church is true, then you believe the leadership is inspired and prophets, knowing all things necessary to bring the church to salvation. If you don't believe that, then you don't believe in the church. So, Salvation or spaceships, choose ye this day whom ye will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

When i was raised baptist, I was taught there was nothing. We wouldn't know each other in heaven, but it isn't as gloomy as it sounds. We would be so focused on God that the desire to be with them wouldn't be there. But it seems like a waste to have a family unit in that case.

Law of Consecration. I guess that would be the case, if it was instated.

ok. Well, having faith in Jesus Christ that leads to salvation makes me not care what happens in this life, as long as my eyes are not averted from the true prize: Celestial Glory. Come what may.

It isn't unheard of. You know the plan of salvation: We as God's children come down here, sin and the like, and few will be welcomed back. How heartbreaking is that for God? He loses his children, He has to watch His Beloved Son suffer the sins of the world, be despised, spit upon and suffer a theif's death. On top of that, it is because of his plan that we have agency. That agency is the reason for the holocaust, all wars, everything evil on this earth. It could of all been prevented, but God is God and has infinite wisdom, and knew that there was an importance to His plan. Basically, God knew what he was doing with the polygamy thing. If you believe JS is a prophet, you would have to concede that him saying an angel visited him is truth, because if it is a lie, then that makes him a charlatan and a false prophet. But, I know of a surety that JS was a prophet, and that those statements made were true. He was truly visited by an angel. And I also know of the truth of the Gospel, and it is all by the spirit that i know these things.

It was part of the D&C at one point.

So we cannot begin to understand how the atonement satisfied justice?

We read in Alma 42 (the last real chapter of Alma prior to the war IMO) that justice would have us damned forever due to our sins. But, the atonement of Christ brings mercy, and that mercy is able to overtake justice and bring the penitent soul to salvation. My question is: How?! How can mercy make justice take a back seat? So, if you would just do this for me: post your answer prior to reading others responses. Think of it as a thought experiment, or a test. I want to see everyones opinions without them being affected by others. So how can Christ's atonement fulfill justice, and if justice isn't fulfilled, how does mercy overtake justice?

Hmmm. Some very good books mentioned. Is there anyone in Arkansas here that would be willing to trade? Did i just make everyone hate me because i am an Arkansan? And, the angel with a sword thing? I find that encouraging. You know part of that was because of Emma though. When the angel came he didn't have the option of Polygamy and get killed by Emma OR wait it out. What is so strange about the sword event?

ok, truth. Please cite your references. If you can provide us with scriptural (meaning canonical) or latter-day revelation regarding these things, great. Also, try and tell us how this would bring us closer to our Heavenly Father. But, until then, i will file this away as rubbish. I read Skousen. I love his teachings, but i don't file them as doctrinal. I don't put my heart in them, i just think they are neat. I don't know that his atonement talk in my signature is even close to church doctrine, i have seen that debated quite a bit. But i think it is interesting. But, i don't let my reading of Skousen cloud the scriptures. I could read Skousen all day and still not go to bed at night till i had sat down and studied, pondered, and prayed about the true scriptures. There is a BIG difference in revealed truth and speculation. Spaceships, photon torpedos, planet making tools, hollow earths, etc: Speculation Jesus Christ the Savior, God the Father, repentence, forgiveness, grace, mercy, the atonement temple work, work for the dead, etc: Revealed Truth

truthwalker: they are a little out of line, but you must understand what you are saying. You are saying a compass guided by faith proves that God uses a spaceship! IT SOUNDS RIDICULOUS! Granted, it may make complete sense to you, but not to us. We are not as "enlightened." As for us, we are fine knowing that Jesus is the Christ and that his blood washes us clean. All things are appendages to that. It is not central to our salvation to know that God uses a spaceship. So personal, if i have to wait some period of time to progress in paradise because i knew Jesus was Christ but didnt know God had a spaceship, i think i will be fine learning that there.

What is the general opinion on the Qur'an? Do we believe Muhammad to be an inspired man? Have there been any official statements by the church on the subject?

This is the same as genesis 6:4, but the inspired version from the book of Moses. It is apparant from this, that the passage in question (verse 21) is actually the "Nephilim" trying to mock Noah. "We are what you call wicked, but aren't we happy, eating, drinking, marrying and giving ourselves in marriage (which angels can't do) and even though we have all of this, we have married outside of the covenant with the daughters of men." No evidence from the prophet joseph that angels were having giant babies with mortals. sorry.

Hate to jump in this late in the game, but maybe i can help. I remember being baptist, it wasn't that terribly long ago. I was at a youth class on Wednesday night and we were having "Why This Religion Is Going To Hell" night focusing on: Mormons. I knew a fair bit about the church at that point so i was just sitting through it and somebody looked at me and said "TJ, are you ok?" and all i could think was "No, i am not okay! Everything that is being said is a blatant lie." I wanted to get up and walk out. I wanted to tell them how everything they said was false, but i didn't have the nerve. I realized at that point that my whole church experience had been "why they are wrong" and not "why we are right." There was no answers to questions, there was no focus on what we believe, just what we didn't believe. It was very confusing. After joining the church, i am so grateful to have answers to my questions, but what is better is that i can help answer others questions. I now can go to funerals and be happy, because i know without a doubt of what comes after this life, and it isn't eternal damnation for those that don't believe in my beliefs. I will no longer be told by a preacher that a friend is going to hell unless he is baptized as a baptist. I know God is a fair judge, and I know that He wants us in heaven as much as we want to be there. And i know these things because the prophets and scriptures testify of them. I would like to suggest some reading for you. Ezekiel 37:16-19 in the Old Testament, Matt 3:17 and John 10:16 in the New Testament, & 3 Nephi 11:1-17 and Moroni 10:4-5 in the Book of Mormon. Pray about these things, and let the spirit guide you. That little push you feel, that thing that has compelled you to study out these things, that could very well be the spirit of the Lord leading you to what is right.

I've said it before on these boards, but it bears repeating. When i joined the church, i knew nobody in my ward. absolutely nobody. It worried me. I thought i would be alone and the outcast, and it really scared me to where i thought about not talking to the missionaries. Before i was baptized, i had made a best friend in the church. Now, I have made tons of friends, friendships that will last a lifetime. Guys that opened their house to me numerous times, even though i have known them for such a little bit of time. That best friend? I am now practically engaged to his sister (funny how things work) so he is more of my brother now. It is the Lord's church, and if you reach out, he will comfort you, spiritually and socially.

Just as an aside: They have actually found some DNA in early Western Hemisphere inhabitants that is linked back to the western hemisphere. Haplogroup X (mtDNA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) That doesn't prove the Book of Mormon, but it does negate alot of the "DNA proves the BoM false" claims. We believe people have been in the western hemisphere way before the Book of Mormon stories. So to trace something from 600 BC using DNA is like shooting a target in the dark. It is a guessing game and the information can be manipulated to favor anyone. But, it is my testimony that spiritual things cannot be understood by the natural man. If it were so, our agency would be null and void. We can know for ourselves all things by the power of prayer and the witness of the holy spirit. Ask and it shall be given you.

I have never heard of any of this, but this is really intriguing me now. truthwalker, you're theory is plausible, but completely a theory. It is possible though, in that what we have is a history of this world only. Brigham Young once said that Adam and Eve came from another world, so the same could be said for "The Watchers," but, that would seem to be a outright rebellion against God, but the watchers are said to have been subordinate to four archangels.

Good time to share a friends mission story: Two zone leaders (i think) got a call late at night and were told they needed to come to a members house quick. They got there and found that a boy was "possessed." The boy came out and started yelling the Elders real names, which they hadn't told anyone. They were freaked out. Then the boy started to tear at their clothes and actually ripped off one of the elders sleeves. They began to pray and as soon as they closed the prayer, the boy looked up and said "hey elders, what are you guys doing here" oooooooo freaky.

that was also what i was taught. Or maybe it was that they all held the whole of the keys but that the keys were not "activated" so to speak until set apart as the prophet.

But that is not always (i'd like to hope it rarely is) the case, so saying a girl who wants to get married is a whore is not a correct statement. Just because a there is a deep abiding love between a man and a woman and it is so strong that they wish to devote the remainder of their lives together does not make a young woman a whore.

I am the only member in my family. They do things on the sabbath like watch TV and go to movies, and i abstain. But sometimes i find it difficult to stay away from these activities. Two examples: 1.) They will sometimes order pizza. Is it wrong for me to eat the pizza since it was ordered on Sunday and caused someone to work? 2.) Next week we will be on the road and they will want to stop to eat somewhere. How can i decline a dinner without hurting their feelings while still observing the sabbath.

Luke 24:32 The men knew of Christ because of the burning in their chest when hearing his words. I think this is proof against the Orthodox claim that the search for "burning in the bosom" is man made, and proof that it is actually Biblical.

you really just said it best The atonement is for everyone. Her repentance process would really depend on the choices she has made in her live, the availability of the gospel, etc. Say she was born in the church, then went apostate and built her empire. That would be a near impossible repentance process. I think her repentance process would probably involve letting go of that financial flow she is recieving from the porn industry though. She would have to literally change everything about her life. Talk about tough. But, as members, we would be responsible for keeping her strong and realizing that she has made mistakes, but we all have. We have all relied upon the atonement at one point in our lives, and if we say we haven't we are fooling ourselves. The truth is we should rely upon it daily, and if we are doing so and living in righteousness, that we would have no problem with accepting her as our sister.