BenRaines
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Posts posted by BenRaines
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Define Salvation. Salvation from what? Mortal death? If resurrection is to all then yes we are all saved by Christ. If others wish to define salvation and living with God and Christ in eternity not freely given to all.
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After looking in to it a bit more there will be a two hour documentary about the documents that were found on Sunday April 9th on the National Geographic channel. FYI.
Ben
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Just to be clear I was not making a claim of truth or falsehood. Just pointing out an interesting article and viewpoint. I don't believe that be it fact or not that Christ and Judas had a close friendship would change the plan of salvation or the restoration of the gospel.
The Dead Sea scrolls provide some interesting reading also as does Josephus.
For those that are interested I have read the Old and New Testament 6 times each. I have read the Book of Mormon more than 20 times, given up counting. Same for Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. Also read The Messiah series by McConkie twice and the list goes on and on. I don't read anti material but agree with President Hinkley that we should expand our knowledge by reading good books and good literature.
Ben
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Ancient manuscript suggests new relationship between Jesus, Judas RANDOLPH E. SCHMID - The Associated Press WASHINGTON -- Perhaps it wasn't history's greatest betrayal after all, but a simple act of obedience.
Judas turned Jesus over to the high priests, not for money, but because Jesus asked him to do so, according to a newly translated ancient Coptic document.
The "Gospel of Judas" tells a far different tale from the four gospels in the New Testament. It portrays Judas as a favored disciple who was given special knowledge by Jesus -- and turned him in at Jesus's request.
"You will be cursed by the other generations -- and you will come to rule over them," Jesus tells Judas in the document made public Thursday.
The text, one of several ancient documents found in the Egyptian desert in 1970, was preserved and translated by a team of scholars. It was made public in an English translation by the National Geographic Society.
Religious and lay readers alike will debate the meaning and truth of the manuscript.
But it does show the diversity of beliefs in early Christianity, said Marvin Meyer, professor of Bible studies at Chapman University in Orange, Calif.
The text, in the Coptic language, was dated to about the year 300 and is a copy of an earlier Greek version.
A "Gospel of Judas" was first mentioned around A.D. 180 by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyon, in what is now France. The bishop denounced the manuscript as heresy because it differed from mainstream Christianity. The actual text had been thought lost until this discovery.
Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton University, said, "The people who loved, circulated and wrote down these gospels did not think they were heretics."
Added Rev. Donald Senior, president of the Catholic Theological Union of Chicago: "Let a vigorous debate on the significance of this fascinating ancient text begin."
Senior expressed doubt the new gospel will rival the New Testament, but he allowed that opinions are likely to vary.
Craig Evans, a professor at Acadia Divinity College in Nova Scotia, Canada, said New Testament explanations for Judas' betrayal range from money to the influence of Satan.
"Perhaps more now can be said," he commented. The document "implies that Judas only did what Jesus wanted him to do."
Christianity in the ancient world was much more diverse than it is now, with a number of gospels circulating in addition to the four that were finally collected into the New Testament, noted Bart Ehrman, chairman of religious studies at the University of North Carolina.
Eventually, one point of view prevailed and the others were declared heresy, he said, including the Gnostics who believed that salvation depended on secret knowledge that Jesus imparted, particularly to Judas.
In Cairo, the editor of the Coptic weekly "Watani," Youssef Sidhom, did not want to make an immediate judgment on the manuscript.
"However," he said, "this will not greatly affect the central belief that considers Judas as a traitor, but there is an old school of thought that says one should not persecute Judas because his role was to complete the prophecies. It seems that the new manuscript will support this point of view -- that Judas's role was pivotal to completing the prophecies."
The newly translated document's text begins: "The secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot."
In a key passage Jesus tells Judas, "You will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me."
This indicates that Judas would help liberate the spiritual self by helping Jesus get rid of his physical flesh, the scholars said.
"Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom," Jesus says to Judas, singling him out for special status. "Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your star."
The text ends with Judas turning Jesus over to the high priests and does not include any mention of the crucifixion or resurrection. National Geographic said the author believed that Judas Iscariot alone understood the true significance of Jesus's teachings. The author of the text is not named in the writings.
Discovered in 1970, the papyrus was kept in a safety deposit box for several years and began to deteriorate before conservators restored it. More than 1,000 pieces had to be reassembled.
The material will be donated to the Coptic museum in Cairo, Egypt, so it can be available to all scholars said Ted Waitt of the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery, which helped finance the restoration.
In addition to radio carbon dating, the manuscript also was authenticated through ink analysis, multispectral imaging, content and linguistic style and handwriting style, National Geographic reported.
On the Net: http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/
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As you grow in the church and gain greater knowledge you will find that most likely you will want to marry in the temple. You cannot marry a non member in the temple. You should not marry someone and hope or expect that they will convert at a later date so you can go to the temple. While there are people that have the odds are not all that good.
As I have told my three daughters. Date who you wish but don't be suprised if you fall in love with someone who cannot take you to the temple if you do.
Ben
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I would like to participate but need a better understanding to reference of unclean spirits.
If we are refering to the spirits that followed Satan when they were cast out or are we refering to the spirits that inhabit the bodies they were born in to but have become unclean. All spirits born in to our mortal bodies become unclean, therefore need for repentance and baptism.
I think one of the biggest changes in my lifetime is the immediate delivery of news and graphic news at that. When I was a boy, back in the days of black and white tv, man I never thought I would say that, there was little in the way of news and it was only for 30 minutes a night. Now there are at least a dozen news channels and many are on 24 hours like CNN, Communist News Network.
It is not that the world has become so much worse is we are more informed about how bad it is.
Some of the greatest natural disasters have happened in the world happened before there was tv. That does not make it any less traumatic than the tsunami in Indonesia.
When the world stops for a police chase because a helicopter catches it on tv. I could go on and on and have.
I won't even start on the current music and video game craze and how that impacts everyone.
Ben
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Everyone should be nice to jennylynn2001 or whatever name she is using now.
Get a grip. :)
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I would believe that the type of blessing that you have mentioned would be a blessing of faith but not necessarily of priesthood power. Some things that would help to determine that are the following:
Priesthood authority is given based upon worthiness and power of said works based upon worthiness also.. I am sure you are very familiar with the 121st section of the Doctrine and Convenants.
Can blessings of health and comfort be given by those without priesthood power? Absolutely. Blessings can be sealed based on priesthood sealing but they are all and should all be based on God's will and what end result he desires.
In the New Testament I do not see a reference to having the priesthood in order to move a mountain only faith, the faith of a mustard seed.
So back to your question I would see it as a blessing based on faith and not on Priesthood power. I will have to do some research in order to discuss further.
Ben
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I am by no means an authority on this so this is only my viewpoint. I have read through this thread and hope this is in keeping with the original idea.
Priesthood is the power of God given to men to do certain things here while on the earth and to bind certain covenants for eternity.
It is still the power of God and not the power of man.
The Prophet, currently President Gordon B. Hinckley, holds all the keys. There are keys that have not been given to man upon the earth and are only held by Christ, keys of Resurrection, as an example.
Only way that Priesthood can or better said should be used is under the direction of the Spirit. If done otherwise as the scripture says "Woe unto the priesthood of that man"
When by virtue of probation, disfellowshipment, excommunication or personal choice to have name removed from the records of the church, person would still hold the priesthood but it would have no value or purpose.
We can deal with hypothetical guesses about what would happen if Joseph Smith were all of a sudden to be back alive and President Hinkley chose to remove him from the church etc. Is it possible? Anything is. Is it probable? No likely.
We can also ask, if there was a huge tidal wave, like in The Day after Tomorrow, and you were at the beach would you run from the seashore or just stand there and take it.
Thank you for reading this far.
Ben
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Suggest that he go to Mormon.org and there he can learn about LDS faith from our perspective and not from an anti viewpoint.
I would say good luck but have always wondered what someone hopes in a non LDS relationship if you are planning on marrying in the temple.
I have always told my daughters to be careful who you date, non LDS, because you cannot control who you will fall in love with. If you date someone you can marry them too.
Ben
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Not sure how you can chase the spirit away by exposing false doctrine being taught. Spirit will not testify to false doctrine.
Also the reason that a member of the bishopric is supposed to be in Gospel Doctrine class is to prevent the teaching of sharing of false doctrine.
There is no excuse that one member of the bishopric or branch presidency cannot be in attendance.
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Another great Mormon Urban Legend. Even in the tornado in SLC back in 1998 I think it was there was damage to the new conference center. No great damage but there was damage.
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I would not agree that we are all related mortality. Some of you claim to have come from apes.
Yes we are all brothers and sisters in spirit and if you believe in Adam and Eve being the first parents but related beyond that I don't know.
Ben
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I agree with Ray. Don't go up and read a few old articles from church magazines. There is a good talk posted on www.ldsmag.com about the seven deadly sins of sacrament talks. A great resourse as you prepare a talk. I have the opportunity to speak in church once a month and I know from personal experience and many sacrament meetings that I have been in that when someone gets up and reads their talk most tune out.
When I prepare a talk I prepare bullet points and use them to keep me on track. I have ideas associated with those bullet points and make sure I cover all the important stuff. Also if the speaker before me goes on too long I can drop a point or two. I do not believe in going over the time allotted. If I were to do so everyone is mentally headed for the door.
Ben
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Very well said Jason.
Ben
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I believe that Tom has sold Dominos and no longer has an interest in it just the money for it.
I think the ACLU should go and change their name to the ICLU or the ICLU. That would be the Iraqi Civil Liberties Union and the Iran Civil Liberties Union. They could defend Saddam. :)
Sorry way off topic. Please do not respond.
Ben
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I know what you mean Snow. While we have just finished celebrating the 200th anniversary of Joseph Smith's birth he is not someone I worship but someone who I respect for the trials he experienced and the willingness to give his life as a testimony of his belief and knowledge.
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Jason, I agree with you. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is one thing and the membership is another. What someone said or did in the past should not entirely reflect on the church today.
Most people believe that we have become greatly enlightened in how we treat women, children, people of other races, referring to white anglo/saxons, and how they treat others. To attempt to judge people from 1,000, 500, 200 or even 50 years ago by what we consider normal today is an injustice.
In Old Testament, was David a prophet? At one time. Did he commit the worst sin imaginable? Caused for the murder of someone. Yes. Will he be judged for it or all his generations after? He will. Does not make any less true what happened or it's reperucssions.
I believe that the organization is what Christ would have upon the world if he were here today. Would some things change? Most likely. Would that make what was before it any less true, I don't believe so.
Enough of that.
Ben
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It's his money. If I had money to build a town of my own and did not seek federal funds to build it with then I could make any rules I wanted as long as they do not violate local, state or federal laws. Each level from the bottom up is subordinate to the one above it.
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Serg, yo conozco Elder Gene R. Cook personalmente. Si hay alguien quien tiene el espiritu es el. Buena suerte en lo que buscas.
Ben
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Wow shows how out of touch I am. I thought they were cutting school. You know, missing classes. Never had that problem with my four children.
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What me worry?
If you want to worry about something I was watching a show on Mythbusters. They were trying to see if fecal matter ends up in the air in your bathroom. They left toothbrushes in holders near the sink, like we all do. After two weeks they took them each to a lab and had htem checked. They also kept one in the kitchen just to check the air there. All toothbrushes showed fecal bacteria on them.
So worry about your water. I will worry more about where my tooth brush is kept. LOL
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You can make a still yourself. Ask any moonshiners you know and they can tell you how. :)
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I am in agreement with Jason, minus the adult beverages.
Ben
Judas And Christ Were Closer Than Before Thought?
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
ApostleKnight. So good to see you back posting.
Purpose of my posting was to generate discussion. I hope that this post is not percieved as a belief of mine but just some posted information.
There are many things I read. It is the scriptures and general conference talks that I study. :)
Ben