JohnnyRudick

Although most of the recoverable fragments of the scrolls contain ideas contrary to our understanding of the Scriptures in many places, those pieces that have copies of the Old Testament, the Book of Isaiah which is the best example, match almost to a word with the masoretic text. There are no Dead Sea Scroll copies of the New Testament. As i read these posts I acknowledge that Moses did not write the Torah in the format we have it today. Nor did he write it in the format of the text used to translate it into the masoretic text. But he did write the text of the Torah up to perhaps the last few pages as I have stated earlier. After all. We reason, God could not have had him write a record of his death. Right? Bro. Rudcik

Adoption? Who says they are unwanted? We have a no growth situation now of educated young people. We need more children growing up in homes where they can get a decent education and be a credit rather then a deficit to society. Bro. Rudcik

(Speaking about the Torah or most of it.) OK. If you say so. Sooooooooooo, the Bible, Books of Moses, Abraham, the D&C and the Book of Mormon are mearly fables designed to keep the silly busy while the grownups go about the business of making the world a better place. OK. Got it. Bro. Rudick

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. ". . .We can obviously see where you are coming from. . ." No kidding? And just where do you think you are posting these ideas of yours? The National Geographic Conjecture site? But That is true as you state. Joshua or one of his scribes may have finished off the last of the writings of Moses we have evidence of this happening in other places. As to how can there be other religions before Adam, it is because he was the first man and their was no death before him. All scholars just as any other man, will start out with a pre-supposition when investigating any curiosity. The pre-supposition of some historical or Hysterical and biblical scholars is that "there is no god or no God, and the story of Creation is only a myth to teach "something or other". We then go from there and the Lord only knows where man can go putting together the "facts" that he can dig up to prove what he has already supposed. We all do it. I just want to point out we are not the only ones. Bro. Rudick

Sad to say, There are as many "Opinions" about abortion in the LDS faith as man has *** *****. I speak for me and a few other "Mormons" I know. We do not know when the Spirit enters the body. Most seem to think it is when the Baby (some say potential life) takes it's first breath. I do not believe that it is permissible to deliberately take the life of any human baby at any stage of his/her growth unless it can be proved beyond any doubt that he/she is guilty of some hanus crime worth of death. Rape, Incest? What did the Baby do? The parent or parents sinned so kill the baby? Right:huh: Bro. Rudick

It amazes me how people blindly follow after the pretended knowledge of so-called scholars on the dates of Scripture. 1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: We know that Moses compiled and wrote the first five books of the Bible. We know that Moses wrote the "Book of Moses". What's the deal here? How can any religion predate Adam? "There was not yet a man to til the ground.":eek: There has been apostasy ever since they left the Garden from the time of Cain. Then we have the Tower of Babel and the scattering. And the Earth was most likely physically divided during this time also. Not so sure on that one. These are not fables, this is History. I love some of you, Well, this is "Church" and this is "real life". Bro. Rudick

I can't believe these people who quote "Planned Parenthood" as a reliable source:confused: That would be like asking IG Farben about the use of it's products sold to Germany during the 1940s. Bro. Rudick

Yup:eek: Hay, folks! He ain't kiddin' I'll second that observation. Bur now days, it is open season on any believer in Judaic/Christian Scripture. Not so bad in the mid-west but not so bad any more on the LDS people either. But I think it will get worse for both soon according to this report. You know under Clinton it was OK for the Government to Harass oddball people like David Koresh and outside the grid people like those in Idaho can't remember the family but the Gov shot and killed the mother and little baby and their "little dog too". Now they are picking up where they left off maybe, Bro. Rudick

Maybe written according to the "foreknowledge of God.":D You know it is said that the history of the world and all of it's inhabitants "were written in the stars". Kinda like that I suppose;) Bro. Rudick

Have you heard about the new report that the State of Missouri and Home Land Security got together and came up with for different State Highway Patrols could profile possible terrorists? Google "The Modern Militia Movement" When news of this got out they had to back down on this one. But this is the kind of thing that is in the works. Bro. Rudick

Yup, that's the way I see it also:) it is not that earlier men of God did not keep a log, it is just that God saw to it that Moses compiled what He wanted us to havve in the fashon He wanted us to have it. Abraham is gravy;) Bro. Rudick

Thanks;) Bro. Rudick

If I read you right, A-men brother. I'll go a few steps further though. If that "parasite" is a living soul with agency of it's own, then weather it is sanctioned by law or not to kill it I still have my own responsibility concerning it. The choice is mine. to kill or not to kill. If I believe that it is a child, do I have a right to try to preserve the life, rights of another child even if it is not my child? At what age is that child protected? At first breath? 2 years? It is still a parasite. Throw it out on the street and it will die. Because I carry it it is a choice, put it down and I have to carry it? Bro. Rudick

Politically speaking, you have been effectively "neutralized". Bro. Rudick

I guess you would not have been much help in freeing the slaves then, huh? After all, I would not have slaves and I think blacks have souls and all, but I can't dictate what others do with their own property(bodies). Right? Bro. Rudick

I thought the Scriptures are already clear on the subject. Any other "teaching" is only speculation at best and should be avoided. Bro. Rudick

I have visited Wards all over and never have I heard this "teaching" as you call it taught in any of our meetin' houses. Never! Bro. Rudick

Well, He had that much figured out didn't He:) Yet, He was not yet out raising the dead or healing the sick or organizing His Church:p Bro. Rudick

Well, it is like some say about a man in the street. "He was killed by a gun." Bro. Rudick

You said the "Bible". Yes, that is one volume of Scripture. When these verses were written these were not even considered Scripture. But the word given by God, weather by the oracle of God living or dead, they were called by the people "Scriptures". And I stand by the Scripture I have quoted. In response to what our friend Ceebooboo jested at earlier. My point was as I have said earlier, Lets stick with the Scriptures. Bro. Rudcik

I still think that we should be careful to differentiate between "life" and "Living Soul" The grass is alive as well as the tree. Bro. Rudick

Could be this exchange referred to; Genesis 30:1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die. Genesis 30:2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb? Genesis 30:3 And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her. Genesis 30:4 And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her. Genesis 30:5 And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son. Genesis 30:6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan. Genesis 30:7 And Bilhah Rachel's maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son. Genesis 30:8 And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali. Genesis 30:9 When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. Genesis 30:10 And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a son. Genesis 30:11 And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad. Genesis 30:12 And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a second son. Genesis 30:13 And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher. Bro. Rudick

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Nephi 4:15 And upon these I write the things of my soul, and many of the scriptures which are engraven upon the plates of brass. For my soul delighteth in the scriptures, and my heart pondereth them, and writeth them for the learning and the profit of my children. 2 Nephi 4:16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard. Alma 17:2 Now these sons of Mosiah were with Alma at the time the angel first appeared unto him; therefore Alma did rejoice exceedingly to see his brethren; and what added more to his joy, they were still his brethren in the Lord; yea, and they had waxed strong in the knowledge of the truth; for they were men of a sound understanding and they had searched the scriptures diligently, that they might know the word of God. John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Bro. Rudick

"I didn't dare ask her what the implications were for infanticide under that teaching." Good point. Bro. Rudick Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Geese!, and you were doing sooooo, well for a while there too:bawl: How could you "feel" that way after all you said you believe? I know we can't do much about what others may choose to do to their babies but. . . Take that to the old slavery question. I know you have heard it. "Well I know that some say that blacks are people too but they are owned by others and are their property. I personally would not abuse my blacks if I owned one but I cannot find fault with those who do. God will sort it out in the end." Not sure if I hit the nail square enough on the head here but I tried. You have your feelings that "this is a baby". If you believe it is then you have to express your feelings about it when you see a"baby" abused. You may not physically be able to do anything about it maybe. But you can express your feelings if you have any and apparently by what you say you believe, you do. Just because you can't see the child, that don't mean it don't exist. "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" Bro. Rudick