JohnnyRudick

Because of this and other verses I have always believed that God could stand outside of time and act independent of it's constraints. Playing it's fabric like a multi string harp. Bro. Rudick

Or reverse order depending on the wards agreement on meeting order as many wards will in most cases share a building. Yup, ya got that right:D But ya got the idea right. But just don't be afraid to ask for help. You'll get it:) Bro. Rudick

LDSVALLEY has given you great advice. Just_A_Guy also has a great idea for sugesting DVD's such as The Story of the Latter-day Saints, The Mormon Experience (both written by Mormons), and Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition by non LDS. May I add if you like movies, (I love movies:D) the Trilogy The Work and the Glory. This is is a drama of a fictional family in the early days of the Church into the Kirkland era just before the Nauvoo era. It will give you a flavor of how Satan from the beginning attacked this Church and some of the background behind it from the perspective of those in the Church of Jesus Christ. I love this series and wish they would do the Nauvoo period of the Church as well. I can be placed in OK with the DVD Praise to the Man. And Emma. Well ViolinGirl, I wish you well in your quest. Bro. Rudick

Where do I find such a wonderful device? Bro. Rudick

The way man begins to think about the things that God has already reveled has changed back and forth from the time of Adam and Eve. Man does not like or has for some reason drifteed away from what God reveled and made up something that for some reason makes him "feel" more comfortable about himself. That new idea catches on and becomes a tradition. Don't get me wrong. A tradition can teach a truth or it can teach what man would like to be true. Jesus said at one time something along the line that some traditions of man can confuse away what God was trying to teach. Most Christians and Jews today have a tradition that God is some mystical being who cannot only be beside Himself but does not have a self (as we understand it) to even be beside. Man wants a god that is not only miraculous in our humble standards but is incomprehensible on any scale. With that "tradition" we have made it very difficult to restore to man the original intent of Gods message to us. , Bro. Rudick Oh, and you to, Jim:D Bro. Rudick;)

What is "Tradition" is not always right. Just because it is a popular idea. . . Matthew 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. Matthew 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; Matthew 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. . . . . . Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; . . Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, Colossians 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Bro. Rudick

It works most of the time. And it is a very good system. I feel if you have to "confront" people there is no better way to do it. But we are dealing with people. There have been hurt feelings but I guess some people maybe look for reasons for their feelings to get hurt, huh? Bro. Rudick

I agree. But here is "Where the Rubber Meets the Road". No, for you young'ens. I'm not being vulgar here:eek: How many time do we think this. "If only they knew they would dress better." "It is only ignorance that keeps them back." "I will help them." Yeah, right. Embarrass them and make them think you are a bunch of pharisees you will. Better for them in time to have it dawn on them "Hay, look at how everyone else is dressed. Is this do to respect for the Lord's House? I will try to dress better also." Just a thought:p Bro. Rudick

:)

Yes, I have attended other churches from time to time with friends and have seen that in those churches. But I have never seen it personally myself in LDS Churches. I have seen what you have. Dresses and skirts which I feel is more appropriate and more respectful to the dignity of the Lord's House of Worship. Bro. Rudick

Hummmmmmmmmmm:cool: I think I see the spirit of what you are getting at. It is just that there are those who see people in their comfort and take advantage and trample on the sanctuary of our God. Bro. Rudick

I agree with you mostly on this also. There are times though I find things are much too strict. I feel people should treat the sanctuary/Chapel with respect. You are right. Would you treat your sisters wedding with more respect then the wedding of the Lord Jesus Christ. I can't believe any Bishop would allow it. But, that's just me I guess. Bro. Rudick

I just don't understand any of this. I have visited quite a few wards and branches and I can't remember seeing any ladies in slacks on Sunday nor flip-flops. I must admit I don't look at the ladies much but you would think that would get my attention. Things have really changed from back when I had anything to do with it. I thought that maybe this would someday come about. Just did not think I would ever live to be able to see it. I understand when things happen to an individual and you can't afford to have "proper" dress. But as soon as you can. . . Just no respect for the things of God? More concern for "blending in" with the world? What's up? Bro. Rudick

Nope. About a month later I found a suit I liked, that he liked:p, and I only wore my best suit (my denim) to some MIA functions (I was a youth leader) and classes outside of Sacrament, Priesthood and Sunday School meetings. Well, ya know. He is the Bishop. Bro. Rudick

I remember years ago I moved from a small branch where I had a really nice denim suit. I loved that suit and would wear it to church all the time and when I went out to "nice" places and occasions. Well as I said, I moved from that area to a ward in New Mexico where the bishop took me aside and told me I must get a "nice" suit to wear to church. My denim was not appropriate. I think in many cases it depends on the norms of the area and the local bishop. As some have pointed out and as I look around from place to place I have found what is accepted in some ares is not so much in others. Bro. Rudick

Most everything you write I say a hearty "Amen" to. I thank you for your many useful posts. At this point I wish to point out that even though the New World Translation is rightly a translation (strictly speaking as compared to the KJB which is a compilation of existing translations from the TR), I must point out the difference of the underlying texts. 1. The KJB, the distilled version from the TR out of Syria. 2. And the New World Translation, basically a newer English version of Jerome's Latin Vulgate from Origen's earlier corruption out of Egypt. I prefer the King James a Bible and the "Inspired" Version of the KJB over the New World, Dewey, American Standard and it's daughters any day for the above reasons that they have distinctly different parentage's. I believe this is a very important fact of the history of the texts that we have to keep in mind. 1 Nephi 13:24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God. 1 Nephi 13:25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God. 1 Nephi 13:26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of a great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away. 1 Nephi 13:27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men. Bro. Rudick

I do not believe Moses had much in the way of the "originals" just as many of the others that God has raised up to preserve the Scriptural Record. Yet Moses (I believe) restored to us many of the plain and precious things pertaining to the Creation and our first parents and a brief history up to his time. Wasn't it convenient that it turns out to be a Jewish/Christian type record. Or Maybe that is just the way it is and all the other variations of the creation, from other belief systems, are merely a "fallen away" version of the truth. There is a reason the Book of Mormon, the Book of Moses and also the Book of Abraham quotes the KJB. They all being the truth has a lot to do with it even if at some points from different views. Just a thought. Bro. Rudick

Yup:rolleyes: Esp. sense he was under inspiration of the Holy Ghost:) Bro. Rudick

Joseph smith Said that; John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Hold me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Bro. Rudick

Yes, He knew why. He did not say He did not know why. He said "Touch me not; for [the reason] I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." We get the washed down version but that reason was given to Mary by Jesus. She understood the Order of sacrifice by the High Priest. Bro. Rudick

If he is, it is contrary to the record and the Sacrifice. This was a special appearance of the Savior to Mary on His way to present the Lamb Slain to the Father in the Holy of Holies. Bro. Rudick

:animatedthumbsup:

No, He had not yet presented His Risen body upon the Heavenly Mercy Seat. He had died Went and preached to the Spirits in Abraham's Bosom leading Captivity Free for the First part of the First Resurrection., Yet He had not yet Ascended to the Father and presented the perfect Sacrifice. Once He had Ententered in to the Heavenly Holy of Holies, then He could touch and be touched. You see, as one of you hinted at, the Perfect Sacrifice could not be polluted until it had been presented. You will have to Hebrews 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. Hebrews 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Hebrews 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. Hebrews 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Hebrews 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Hebrews 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hebrews 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Bro. Rudick

I mentioned Joseph Fielding Smith only in context to the supposed association to the fiasco. Weather He had his name on it or not if he opposed the Church promoting this speculation against the revealed words of God he should have spoken up (which in my humble opinion I will admit isn't worth a whole lot). I suppose you will want to try to run me around one more time as to Gods revealed words on Creation. Right? You have every right to believe the way you do. My only problem with it is the same problem you have with my belief except that unbelievers look in and see those of us who do not even believe our own scriptures calling those who do believe them "those who rely on superstition". They might think you believe our Scripture to be "superstition". Bro. Rudick

I stated that the Grape thing was my speculation. This speculation as well as my speculation on the knowledge of the early fathers (more then 2500 years ago and further back then that) of the science concerning the earth are also from studying the Scriptures. The studies that gave me this conclusion you would not believe anyway as you seem to consider Scripture as only secondary to the opinions of man. The fact that the Church sponsered a pro-evolution address is of interest to me but of a scholarly intrest only. I am sure that this is the spirit of the presentation as far as I can tell. The fact that BH Roberts, Talmage and Joseph Fielding Smith were intimidated into giving Evolution a nod is also of interest but only to add to my database for own use of all the inroads that Satan has tried to get his disinformation to the Saints. I still notice that no new Revelation was given from the Lord as a result of these addresses concerning the subject other then that already given which leads me to believe that the Lord says for now, what He has already said on the subject is sufficient for us to try our faith in Him and what He has said. Bro. Rudick