JohnnyRudick

You miss out. Sometimes you get hurt:eek: Now, you must see this in context. God did give us brains also;) Bro. Rudick

Gotcha:) The 1560 Geneva Switzerland test was also used to assemble the King James Bible. It is a product of the Beza 5th edition text, a clean text from the Greek Vulgate and other surviving Scripture from the land of the Apostles of the Lamb of God. Thanks. Bro. Rudick

I regret wording it just that way. "Kindergarten stuff" I do that every once and again:( As I have already pointed out in so many different ways. We are save through our faith in the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. He has done the "work" that gets us "saved" in Him. It is not through our works that we receive Salvation unless you could call "receiving" a work. But once, as I have already so many times in the past through out so many forums have explained, once we have received the gift of the atonement we now have a responsibility. A responsibility to what? Keep "saved"? No, I do not say that. But once you know that through the Grace of God that you are "saved", will you be content to stay in your "saved? condition or move on in good works? You are right. If you are "saved", you will want to do so. But if you do not do so under the Keys of the Kingdom you lose a great opportunity to grow in the Kingdom of God. You may grow personally, and you may achieve a certain amount of spiritual growth, but you still lose many opportunities working, even if it is for good, outside the Kingdom. Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit. Bro. Rudick

Covered in other forums but never can be said enough in as many different ways as I can. . . The KJB New Testament is based mostly on the TR or the "SYRIAN" or Byzantine text which is identical with the prevalent Greek text of the Middle Ages and the Old Testament is based on the Masoretic (Hebrew) Text. It is NOT the Latin Vulgate! It is the Greek Vulgate of the first and second centuries, and it stands in opposition to the EGYPTIAN texts, of the Vaticanus-B which the other Vatican manuscripts agree the most with, the (B) being the best represented of them. The KJB is a product of the TR. The TR comes from the Syrian texts which survived having their beginnings in Antioch Syria. This is the Bible. Any other bible written from another history line (ancestory) are merely "versions" of the Bible Scripture. That is why I say King James Bible. Or German Bible Or Great Bible Etc. On the Other Side Then we have the Dewey Version of the Bible or The American Standard Version And thousands of other versions of the LXX and so called Newer daughters of the "More Reliable Tests Say. . ." versions. They are only "versions of the TR and corrupt versions at that. Drowning the world in a flood confusion. The Restored Gospel dissipates the confusion if you keep your eyes on the Scriptures and off the Bible Correctors League of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil. This is the Book where you find its pages quoted by God in the Book of Mormon. It leaves a trail of blood that can be traced through-out history. From where they were first called Christians, Acts 11:26, to "the end" this trail crimson trail is easily traced. The old common Latin (not the high Latin of the scholars) of the Donatists, Montanists, Novatians, and Waldenses survived against persecution beyond belief. The King James translators had three of these Bibles. They had the works of Beza, Erasmus, and Stephanus, the Complutensian and the Antwerp Polyglots. These Masoretic, Syrian and the Ana-Baptist Bibles all stood together against the Vatican bibles of France, Rome, and Egypt. The King James translators were much more cautious then modern Bible perverters. The corrupted texts referred to are the ones I have been warning you about. They are the text from the Vatican library, and from a waste basket in a monastery near Mt. Sinai. These texts were developed by a scholar named Origen of Alexandra Egypt. With the help of the likes of Irenaeus, Aquilla and Cyprian. The contents of these Manuscripts were had by the King James translators in the form of Jerome's Latin version of the Bible and the Rheims bible from France. We are told by most sources today Jerome translated from the Hebrew. Yet his translation agrees with the Corrupt texts of the above scholars, yet against the Masoretic text of the Hebrews. Yes, Jerome's Latin Vulgate did agree with the 1582 Rheims version. or should I say that the other way around? The King James translators knew better then to use these translations as they knew they were based on leavened manuscripts. Most of the Scholars today know better also, yet... As said earlier, these corrupt texts were had from Egypt. Alexandria Egypt. The source of these corrupt, leavened bibles we are buried in today are from those Alexandrian philosophers of northern Egypt These are mainly the texts of the bible that we are warned about in; 1 Nephi 13:25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God. 1 Nephi 13:26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of a great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away. 1 Nephi 13:27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men. 1 Nephi 13:28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God. Those corrupt texts have had a very comfortable existence through out history. Why? They have been under the protection of the Establishment Church. These texts from the Vatican library were found in a waste basket in a monastery near Mt. Sinai. These texts were developed by a scholar named Origen of Alexandra Egypt. With the help of the likes of Irenaeus, Aquilla and Cyprian. The contents of these Manuscripts were available to the King James translators in the form of Jerome's Latin version of the Bible and the Rheims bible from France and they chose to ignore these texts as they were considered unreliable. We are told by most sources today Jerome translated from the Hebrew. Yet his translation agrees with the Corrupt texts the above scholars, and against the Masoretic text of the Hebrews. Yes, Jerome's Latin Vulgate did agree with the 1582 Rheims version of the Catholic Church and against the TR in critical places. The King James translators knew better then to use these translations as they knew they were based on leavened manuscripts. Most of the Scholars today are familiar with the true history of these texts yet they in their criticisms in most cases argue in favor of the Egyptian texts. In a "nutshell" Other versions of the TR other then the King James were also written like the German Bible, The Great Bible, Tyndale's New Testament etc. These Bibles have stood through out history on their own against the other line of bibles from the Hexapla, concocted at first in the early 200's A.D. and Origen's LXX through Jerome's Latin Vulgate (405 A.D.) down to the Reams bible out of France (1582 A.D.) Satan's answer to the TR translations. The armies of Darkness have in the past used the Roman/Egyptian church to keep the people in darkness and under their thumb. As the years move on and this combination gains power in other instruments of persuasion and they are used as well. Some in the Church in the past and the present are used to cast doubt on the Bible. The one Standard work of the Church that has been widely accepted by the masses from the time they have been dispensed to the people through the TR. God preserved this line to show up the Corruption of the Bible correctors and they have cranked up the war on it since the 1500s. The war on the Antioch, Syrian texts have been from the beginning with Origen, Pamphilus, Eusebius, Jerome and other Bible correctors to this day Bro. Rudick

Seems like I have been pointing out these Scriptures a lot lately:D But they always seem appropriate. 2 Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. Bro. Rudick

For me, I shun all non TR texts of the New Testaments completely unless some writer uses them and claims he has quoted the Bible. That makes it easy for me. Others do not seem to care. I also compare with quotes from the other standard works of the Church and pray to understand what is going on their. Most of the time that is very easy. Kinda like comparing Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Kindergarten stuff. Bro. Rudick

Most of the time the Lord does not give revelation on casual requests when He has already given us principals to guide us by. It is our duty to study and find these thing out and the Holy Ghost will point out the relevance of what we study. We are creating a "straw man" here and I know the Church already has it figured out. 2 Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. Bro. Rudick

Me too! I tried to say this but you got to it a lot more directly. I tried to put out a picture to soften the blow but I guess a more direct approach is plainer.:) Bro. Rudcik

I hear this over and over. As I have explained above and in soooooooo, many other posts. Some in great detail, how the Bible IS the product of the Church of Jesus Christ and is not incompatible with the Bible but is a companion that compliments the Bible. The Bible, esp in the TR tradition is one of the standard works of the Church and I believe is also the words of God. Many bible use bibles that are not of the TR tradition and have many deliberate translation errors and I also believe them to be the word of God as long as they are translated correctly. Again, you must "rightly divide? the Scripture. And "study" so that you can rightly divide. There is no so-called contradiction that cannot be cleared up by this. You do not have to run to General Authorities or textual critics to clear up errors in the Scripture. Just "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 Bro. Rudick

Yeah:p But, the Bible warns us that these nuts like Marianne Williamson and others will flourish at this time and I believe they are preparing the way for the "One" who will give us real grief. Bro. Rudick

Well, We know that. Just like it is also true that there is only One God. But we know what that means also. But the Scriptures say, (and you have to read it from a different perspective) that their are many christs. Jesus is often asked if He is the Lords Christ. And John the Reveloter points out that Jesus is the Lord's Christ. You see there are anti-christs and their will rise a One who will recveal himself to be the Christ that the world will follow. John wants us to be sure that Jesus is the Real Lords Christ. Yes, there is only one Christ. And there is only One God. But you must also know that their are many gods and many christs:p Bro. Rudick

Right. But you must remember that the Bible is also LDS Scripture and With out the Church of Jesus Christ we would not have the Bible either. Esp. the TR texts of the New Testament. We are also the primary conserver of the masoretic text Text of the Old Testament also so with out the Church of Jesus Christ we would have to rely on the Septuagint for what the early prophets said. The Bible is what Jim believes in and so do I and I know you do also. The Bible in it's context of the "Saved" Christian although teaches us that the Atonement is free to all who will accept, once saved it may be true that you are always "saved" it is the responsibility of a wise steward to grow with what Christ has given us. And Paul understood that concept and preached it very well. It is a shame that "Christians" ignore his teachings on the subject and regulate it to the general resurrection and judgment of the dead at the last day. That was not what the context teaches. Paul taught along with Peter that the "saved" christian has a "responsibility to grow through works for the glory of Christ. Sorry Jim but that is what the Bible teaches and it agrees with restored Scripture as well in context. Bro. Rudick

That's OK:) Ya gotta understand I have studied so many "ways to get to "Heaven". that when I see certain things "bells go off and I just "have to ask":D Love ya Brother;) In Christ, (preferibly my Christ:), the Lords Christ:D) Bro. Rudick

OK. I own the papers to my house. My wife live here with me. (if I had one:( She can use my keys to go in and to go out. To let others in and to let others out. She is Queen and Priestess in and about my house. In effect it is Our house. It is understood it is Her house. We could even say that it says that it is Me and Spouse on the papers to the house but we may have a stipulation that I am the primary owner to the property, But without me. . . . Not sure if I used the right analogy here but we can get some idea where I am going with this. Bro. Rudick

Yes, but the "Christian Scientists" are Gnostic especially Mary Baker Eddy, in her doctrinal approach to all is "Maya" to doctrine. She may not have used the term "Maya" but the doctrine is similar. Bro. Rudick

I wrote a little about this in another thread about how through the Atonement of Jesus Christ we are saved through Faith in Jesus having faith in His Atoning Sacrifice for all who will believe on Him and what He has made possible for us. All mankind will to one extent or another take part in this Sacrifice of our Great High Priest. Somme to Everlasting Life others to Everlasting Destruction. Take your pick. You are right Jim, as far as it goes you are right that is. Once you are "Saved" will you stay under the Dispensation God gave to Paul, or will you move on into the Dispensation delivered to Joseph Smith? In order to grow in the gospel you must do so in the right dispensation or you will stay in your "saved" condition with no growth opportunities. Now for us Saved Mormons We have a responsibility to grow in our salvation. This is what Paul is talking about here. He is not talking about "getting saved". He is looking forward into this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He is talking about you and I, baptized Mormons, what we do once we have salvation. We must grow in the gospel for Eternal rewards. The quality of our works as saved individuals will determine our level of exaltation. Salvation is Free because of the atonement. But then 1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 1 Corinthians 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 1 Corinthians 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 1 Corinthians 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's. 1 Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

A Mary Baker Eddy kind of thing? Bro. Rudick

It never ceases to amaze me over the years how I hear from time to time statements made as if they were fact that cannot be backed up by Revelation. Weather it be Creation or what ever. Some will say, "well President So And So said. . . ." Yeah, and did that statement ever get the Father's Blessing on it by it ending up in one of our Standard Works? Er, no. I thought not. Let's just say for a min that you actually believed the Scriptures and would think on this subject. If God were to create the image of a tree in the "flesh" (the flesh of a tree which was first spiritually created), would He create it with rings or without rings? If you were to walk into the Garden of Eden on the day the tree was created (for we are told in all the Scriptures, not a one denies this that all herb was brought forth in a day) and you were to take a chain saw to that tree and cut it down would it have rings? Seance we know the Scriptures are true, we can believe that all physical creation was created in the physical with a built in history. I can therefore safely "believe" that man and woman weather in the pre-existence, this world or in the worlds to come, all have belly buttons;) John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 2 Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. Bro. Rudick

Yup, For Sure:eek: I can hear Her already:D With me a lot of the times it is, open mouth, insert foot. Open mouth to try to explain, insert other foot:p Bro. Rudick

I Know I knew I was in trouble once I got my mouth (fingers) goin' but like so many times I was committed (or should be:p) and kept right on goin with it. No, unfortunately she happened to drop a calf that time but I doubt it had anything to do with her. Some claim she had relations with the serpent but I do not believe that. Cain was just a bad guy no fault of hers. Bro. Rudick Oh, Cain a calf? Well, some studies I did a long time ago led me to some ideas where calf worship of early cultures, bits and pieces leading up to even today, trace back to the veneration of Cain symbolized as a calf. Just was in the back of my mind when I shot that out. It happens ever once in a while:lol: Bro. Rudick, again:)

The Universe. Seems so Universal don't ya think? Not really so. We look at it with our earthly perspective and we think "All that was created/organized." Organized where? Here in our universe. Right. Our universe. Thank you for shopping at WalMart:D Bro. Rudick

I stand by you on most of what you have written here. Adam needed help, we do also. We have to take in the Foreknowing Power of the Father in reference to the Helpmate being called, womb-man or "Woman" He knew that within her were every child of God that would be born on this earth. She was literally the "Mother of all living." But as you say, she had not yet "dropped her first calf". Well, you did not say "that". That is not an insult please believe me.:) (more of a reference to Cain then to Eve, come to think of it) Bro. Rudick

Happy 29:) Hay, not stepping on you. Love everone of your tags but your last one brought a thought to my mind. Tee, hee. And that take a lot of doin' "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)" Very find slogan for the LDS but not too helpful in using it as scriptural proof for a Bible Believing non LDS Christian. I will try to keep this short for I know I am on the wrong thread for this:confused: You see, that is under the Mosaic Covenant and has nothing to do (they say) with the Paulicians under the Covenant of Grace. We have to show them that a new dispensation has come with renewed opportunities. Bro. Rudick

Does that mean that before Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. . . That there was no more being fruitful, and multiplying? In the garden before the fall you see even Paul using this to teach that Wives were subject to their husbands in his discussion of headship. 1 Corinthians 11:8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. 1 Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 1 Corinthians 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. He is referring to a time even before the fall when the woman was brought before the man to be named. Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Adam named her in the Garden, and he named her again after the Garden. Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. He named her on both sides of Eden. Bro. Rudick

I was born into a very strong Roman Catholic Family. Circumstances beyond the control of my family made it possible for me to be baptized into the LDS Church, into a branch in Chugiak Alaska when I was 12. My family and extended family "had a cow." After that, I had had two of my aunts join the Church, one of which served in the Seattle Temple many years before her death. My Mother and brothers and sister joined the church back in the 60's. I ran a little wild back in the mid to late 60's coming back about 68/69. I really like what Traveler wrote "Personally I do not believe in religion - I do believe in covenants. By covenant I am a Saint of the Last days and a disciple of Jesus Christ after the order of Melchizedek" I want to jump up and down saying "me too, me too." I am a proud member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and with those brave folks of Antioch a long time ago I am proud to be called a Christian. A Christian in the seance of those who in the days after the deaths of the Apostles, held out for their testimony for the Lords sake and loved not their own lives in preserving the truth among themselves even when the world was against them. That spirit was again on the earth in the mid 1800s. I am one of these. I feel like I am more Spiritual then Religious. But forever LDS;) Bro. Rudick