Tarnished

I would like to answer these questions for myself. As I have found that my thoughts on the matter are similar yet different from some of my friends who have been going through similar circumstances. As Faded mentioned in our relationship the infertility is originated through him, there is a good possibility that if I married a different man that I could have children naturally. However, I married him knowing the risks and knowing that this was a possibility, and I married him knowing that no matter what the case was that we would work through it together as a couple. And we have done so, we currently have the option of trying In-Vitro as an option, there is no guarantee that this will work. I have never found myself blaming Faded or thinking less of him because of this, in my mind it is something that affects both of us because of this it is something that we deal with as a couple. It has been eight years, so the reality has sunk in, thus things that used to bother me a lot don’t bother me quite as much now. This does not mean that they don’t hurt but they do not sting quite as much. Sacrament meetings are bitter-sweet, especially as we are currently living in the ward I grew up in. I see couples that I grew up with, went to dances with and watched date and marry walking the halls with their children. I look at children who are the age ours would have been if we had children and wonder at all the years we have lost. Mothers Day is especially difficult, because the youth go around and pass out flowers, or plants or something to each mother and the people around me encourage me to accept one as well, but I always feel awkward and unworthy when I do. What have I done to deserve to be numbered among the other mothers, what do I have to show? New babies have begun to dull for me, at first it was difficult to see them, now it is only painful when the person is close to me. However, how can I not be happy for them? When I wish so desperately for a child myself how can I not be happy when my loved ones are blessed with a child of their own? I have actually become good at fielding the questions by well meaning people, I am not rude about it but I don’t let them walk away feeling fine either. I make sure that they know the situation and I don’t cut corners. I make sure they know how dearly I would love to have children. To tell the truth though these people usually mean well they really need to learn that it is not polite to encourage people to have children, there are many reasons behind why a couple has not had children yet and all of those reasons are the couple’s business, no one else’s. To tell the truth going through cancer with Faded taught me a lot about living through a trial in life, and I learned the most from Faded himself. When we were told about the cancer I didn’t know how to react, I wanted to break down, but instead I took my cues from Faded. He remained calm and worried mostly about me and how I would take things. He smiled and joked around with the doctor and the nurses, making it seem like his biggest goal was to make everyone around him laugh. How could “I” the spouse of the person who had the cancer act any differently when he was all smiles and cheer? So I put on a brave face and worked my way through it with him. Also though it was the second time that he was going through cancer not once did I hear him blame God or ask, “Why me?” Instead he trusted in God and believed that if it was his time to die then he would go. I could not have asked for a better example. So when the full weight of the reality that we were not going to be able to have children naturally fell upon us we went forward much in the same way we had with the cancer. We supported each other, but we tried to stay cheerful and we realized that there was no point in blaming God because it wasn’t something that a loving father in heaven would do. So now when terrible things happen to good people and there are people asking, “Why did this happen? Why does God allow terrible things to happen to good people?” I realize that the answer is, “Because these are our trials in life, they are things that we need to work past. They are not done as a punishment or because God is mean. Sometimes in life bad things happen, what really matters is what we choose to do with those situations. Our next actions are the ones that tell God exactly what kind of person we are.” I don’t know if my viewpoint will help anyone, but I hope that it does.

Oh I am so sorry you have to go through this. It sounds like your husband is not willing to do the things he needs to do to save your marriage. And it sounds like this mistress of his is not willing to make any of this easier for the two of you. If he was willing to change himself, go to the Bishop and begin the repentance process, only have contact with this other woman through the court system and drastically make changes needed to save your marriage that the marriage might be saveable, however it sounds like he is resistant to all of that. I can understand where you are coming from, I can understand your desire to stay with your husband. The thought of losing Faded was terrible for me when I told him what I had done. I knew there was a good possiblity that I would lose him, which is why when it came down to it I was willing to do whatever it took to keep our marriage together. It is difficult to face the reality that you could lose your spouse. However it does not sound like he is in the same boat as you. He is not willing to do whatever it takes to keep your marriage together. He is not willing to give up his sins so that the two of you can start over and work together to save your marriage. His recent actions have shown you this. Please, whatever happens next, please make sure you are the one to break things off with him. Decide in your mind that it is the path you need to take and then act upon it. Ending your marriage will be a painful process but by taking action and making the first move toward ending it you are taking control and it will result in less pain for you. By being the one to end it you will have a sense of resolution and will be able to move on, which is something I think you will definately need. Remember that we are here for you. Please know that we love you and that Christ and your Heavenly Father love you as well. They will give you strength to make it through this hard time in your life.

The story about the missionaries that played pranks on each other reminded me of this. My mother was asked to give the closing prayer in sacrament meeting one Sunday, at the time she was the Relief Society President of the ward and during the meeting she went to help a woman who was having some trouble out in the foyer. When she came back in the first speaker had just finished and the ward was singing the rest hymn. After the hymn the next speaker took a little while to start getting up to give their talk, so my mother, not realizing where the meeting was, thought that everyone was waiting for her to give the closing prayer and hurried up to the front where she was stopped by the Bishop and told that it was not yet time for her to give the closing prayer. She returned to her seat quite embarrassed but with a very amusing story. This story was told to me by a college friend. She comes from family of seven and her youngest brother sometimes has problems keeping quiet in sacrament meeting (what child doesn't) so to try and keep him quiet her mother would whisper to him "Shhh, Jesus wants you to be quiet" So one Sunday during the passing of the sacrament he is being noisy and her mother leans over and whispers, "Shhh, Jesus wants you to be quiet" and her little brother yells back, "I HATE JESUS!" Needless to say that her mother was mortified. And probably stopped using that tactic to get her son to quiet down.

What is sad about this whole thing is that it is not new. When I read this article my first thought was, "wow she is taking after Geisha tradition." Geisha did the same thing with soon to be new Geisha, had the men of the area bid on the girl's virginity. As the Geisha society has died out slowly over time the practice has become less and less common. It is strange and more than a little disturbing to see a modern day rendition of it.

To what purpose? What good comes from getting into an argument with my mother over whether or not she eats chocolate. I am not big into arguments or contention especially with my mother. The conversation has been had between my husband and my mother and my mother chooses to eat chocolate and not drink caffeinated beverages. That is her choice, whether it makes sense or not is really none of my business.

I was raised by a mother who held us to the rule of no caffeine, later when I attended college and met my husband we had some discussions about the no caffeine rule. I came to see that the choice to drink no caffeine is truly just that, a choice. It is a person's choice on how they want to live the WoW. Also when I was growing up there was a family in our ward who chose to consume no sugar. They cut sugar entirely out of their diet. It was how they chose to live the Word of Wisdom. People speak of the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. The spirit of the law is different for each person. The leaders of the church have not said that consuming caffeine will keep us from the temple. So those who choose to not drink caffeine are choosing to say, this is how I feel the WoW should be lived. It does not mean they are the more correct, it just means that they have chosen to live that way. Currently my husband drinks caffeinated drinks, he often has an energy drink to help him get through the day. I choose not to drink the drinks because I don't like what they do to me. I tend to fidget in fast forward and I begin to shake. It is my choice, I am not better or worse than my husband for my choice. We should not berate others for their choice on how they live the WoW, if they feel it is the way they want to live it, as long as it does not break the clearly outlined rules, they should be fine.

Qtpie, your situation also shows a husband who is not living up to his role as a husband. Though we have been counseled to have a family sometimes because of infertility there are walls put up in our way. This does not mean that we are not living up to our potential, it just means that we have a road block in our way. It saddens me that you should have to go through such a situation, where you feel that your only possible way to raise a child is to raise on that was created through an affair. None of us may know what the future holds, but I hope that you do not place all your hopes on this child. My husband and I have looked at adoption as well. It is a difficult proposition, there are so many factors, but it really comes down to giving a child a loving home, and loving them as your own. Though we have the option to try In Vitro there is a very real chance that it will never work. So we keep the option of adoption open as well. As for those at church who feel the need to encourage in multiple ways to procreate I have always been very open with letting them know exactly what the situation is, I figure the more people know the less they will be willing to be hurtful. I am hoping that the future for you is a bright one, that either your husband will see his errors and be willing to change, or that you may be free to find someone who loves you for who you are. You are a worthy wonderful daughter of God, and he does not judge you or love you any less for infertility. He did not give you this trial as a curse or as a punishment, I can not believe that he would do such a thing. Infertility is a devestating trial to deal with as a woman, however it never means that we are any less of a person for it. Please remember that.

One thing I have learned through my experiences with this is that it is not our fault. We did nothing to "earn" or "deserve" this on ourselves. There is no sin that God would send this kind of punishment for. It is my belief that God sends trials in each person's life, things that if we can overcome and live through we will become stronger people from our experiences. My heart goes out to you for what you have gone through. Truthfully what those men told you isn't true at all. What "real man" would come into a marriage and discovering that there would be difficulty having children not look for ways to help his wife through the pain that comes from this. I would have to say that your prior husbands were the sinners in the situation for saying such horrible things and then leaving the marriage because they needed someone who could have children. As I have watched the world I have come to the conclusion that there are many women who can bear children, but not so many who can be good mothers. Many of the women who struggle with infertility would make wonderful mothers. I can understand the pain of going back to church. Since we have been married I have been called to Primary three times, twice to the nursery. It can be a painful calling as you watch over other people's children and wish that you could have your own. If you do decide to return to church I would go and talk to your bishop, explain to him your situation, explain the pain that comes from serving in callings in the Primary. Talk to your Relief Society President about things, I have found that many women in the LDS church are very understanding. You are a worthy daughter of God, this is just your trial in life, it is my belief that if we are strong through these trials we will be blessed for it.

Since joining the forum and wandering around a bit I have noticed that there are more than a few women who have problems with infertility. As my husband and I have been dealing with this problem for eight years now I thought I might see if I could start a discussion on it. On our first year anniversary we were notified by the doctor that Faded had cancer, again. This was the second instance of it and it was the same type of cancer that he had before. The first bout of cancer came around the time he returned from his mission. He had gone through Chemotherapy and was currently in remission. He had almost hit the 5 year mark which marks the time where they usually don’t see cancer return. When it came the second time he was only 26. Because it was a reoccurrence of the original cancer the doctor wanted to pull out the big guns to fight the disease. So he decided that Faded would need to go through Chemo, Radiation and a Bone Marrow Transplant. For those who don’t know what is involved in a Bone Marrow Transplant I will elaborate. During a Bone Marrow Transplant (BMT) they give the patient chemotherapy that is 40 times the concentration that they usually give regular cancer patients. They give three types of chemotherapy separated by a day to give the body time to recover. The chemo goes around and kills everything, all of the rapidly dividing cells in the body and this also means bone marrow. After giving the last batch of chemo they wait a few days and then insert the new bone marrow, then everyone prays that the bone marrow is accepted by the body. One problem behind this procedure is that it results in a 99% chance of sterility. So before going through any of the chemo Faded banked some “opportunities” for us. Currently Faded is in remission, it has been 7 years and he is doing well. However we are currently battling the infertility problem. Our current option is In Vitro Fertilization (IF), however if that does not work then we will look into adoption. Though we have options I still go through times where I feel sad about it all. It often hits home whenever I see a baby or when someone asks when we are going to have children, but it hit hardest when my little sister, the youngest in our family, had her baby this last August. I am happy to have my newest niece and I am happy for my sister, but my arms are still empty. Throughout this all I have talked to many other women who are going through similar situations. They struggle at having children or are completely unable. All of them are saddened by the fact and often ask, “Why me?” I have seen many of them blame God, get angry, or hurt, and have seen quite a few grow inactive as Mother’s Day is a painful experience and hearing about new babies in the ward often makes them feel sad rather than happy. It causes me to wonder, those sisters in this forum who are struggling with infertility, how do you feel about it all? How is sacrament for you? Mother’s Day? New babies? How do you react to the question from well meaning people, “So when are you going to have babies?” What are your thoughts on your situation? Do you blame God? Or have you found a way of viewing things that puts things in a different perspective?

I have read through all of this and my heart is breaking for you. As Faded and I are going through similar things it really hits home for me. The difficult thing is what to do in a situation like this. In our situation I realized that I needed to change, I could see the ways I had changed as a person and I didn't like what I saw. It was my decision to tell Faded and to move forward towards repentance and back towards God no matter what happened after I told Faded. Thankfully he chose to stay with me and we are moving forward together and I have to say our marriage feels like it is finally getting better. Would this be the same case for your marriage? I can't really say. Truthfully it really depends on your husband. A person really only changes when they want to, so if he is finally ready to change then there is a chance that things will improve. However like LolaBella said you really need to be firm with him and give him rules. It makes moving forward have guidelines. If however he is not responsive to changing then as most everyone else has said you should definitely get out of the relationship. If I was unwilling to change then I would expect Faded to have left me, it would not be fair to him otherwise. Your situation sounds very much like ours, our marriage was having severe issues. We had infertility problems for all 8 years of our marriage and our physical life together was beginning to feel like we were roommates or siblings. We could both see our marriage was having problems. As awful as what happened was it actually caused both of us to begin to fight to bring our marriage back to what it should be, to what it should have been in the first place. In regards to your own marriage, if he is not at this point desperately interested in reconstructing your marriage as how it should be then it might be a good sign that he really does not plan on changing in the ways you need to keep your marriage together. We will keep you in our prayers, we already had a lengthy discussion about your situation on our nightly walk today. You are in our thoughts and prayers.

Rice can be the easiest thing to make, the main secret to it is paying attention. If you do not pay attention rice can be the easiest thing to mess up. First you need to make sure that you have the rice to water ratio correct. For example: for every cup of long grain rice, add 1 1/2 cups water. Combine these in a pot (one that you have a lid for) and start on medium heat with the lid off, cook rice until it comes to a boil, reduce the heat to a low heat and put the lid on. Now watch it. The rice will take some time to cook so you can do other things but make sure that you come back often to check on it. What you are looking for is the water, you can see it still bubbling, eventually you will see it begin to dissapear (into the rice) once you can no longer see the water take the lid off and stir up the rice with a fork, can you still see the water near the bottom? Yes: cook it more. No: taste a grain or two of rice, if it is slightly crunchy still then add a little more water and continue to cook, if it tastes right then you are done. Rice is much like pasta in many ways, you have to keep tasting it until it tastes done.

During my first year of marriage I wrote a poem titled "Computer Widow". It speaks of this situation. At that time he was addicted to Diablo and Star Craft. Since then I have actually come to join him in his games. Currently we play World of Warcraft together. Though it has been a good place for us to play together it has also resulted in fights over things in game, time spent online, and other such things. Through playing games we became lax on housework, food preparation, and many other things. Currently we are working at spending less time on the game and more time on real life. Priorities are the important thing here, computer games are not inherently evil, however they do tend to bring out the addictive nature in people. They are a place for escape and they are structured to make the gamer want to come back again and again to finish their goals online. People become attached to their characters and to the people they interact with online (if it is a massive multiuser game) they find reasons to stay on longer and play just a little more. Creating a character on WoW (World of Warcraft) was enlightening for me because I learned what it was like to play the game. Thus when my husband hit the top level I could easily say, "You don't need to find an inn, you can log out anywhere, do it now and get off the computer." Or I could tell him exactly what he should do to get himself off the game the quickest, there was no more, "Oh I need to find a safe place." excuse. The problem that comes from gaming at times is that when you are not playing the game you don't really see what the game comes to mean to the gamer, so thoughts of unplugging or burning the game seem reasonable. Unfortunately it only causes hurt feelings and aggrivation. Truthfully one thing I have learned since becomeing married is that for a person to change they have to decide to change themselves, you can never force another person to change themselves, you can only give advice. The issue really is priorities though, the game becomes the top priority and everything else becomes secondary. Recently my bishop made this comment, "In life our priorities should be like this: 1st our relationship with God, 2nd our relationship with our spouse, 3rd our relationship with our children, 4th our relationship with the church. Everything else comes below that and playing video games should rank far below those top four." Make proper priorities the goal, and make gaming something that can be done when there is spare time. Do chores and housework first and then when everything is done treat yourself with some time gaming, and give time limits. It can be difficult but the truth of the matter is, we can not take the games with us when we die, but our relationships with our families and with God we do take with us. Isn't it more important that we set our priorities in such a way that when we die we do not mourn the time we wasted on pixels on a computer screen. (sorry for getting so preachy, it is a product of much thought on this very subject)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints search "Spirit children" found: Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device. For more scriptures do the same search, I am pasting the link to my search below. LDS.org - Search