Maxel

I'm not interested in reading what's transpired since my last post, but I did want to make a few things clear. I hope you don't think I was requesting that you should be silenced. I was pointing out that this subject often becomes contentious (I have participated in such threads in the past, but the contention is definitely not confined to me), and that nothing is ever decided on. Perhaps others learn from the journey, but the lack of a discernable destination can muddy the waters of understanding. Wonderful! I'm glad you're learning new things from others. That is always a cause to celebrate, the growth of faith.My problem with threads like this is that faith is usually the first thing to go out the window. Because of the nature of the historical evidence, the truth is largely (if not entirely) arrived at through interpretation, which is dictated by our standing before God, our faith, and our worldly understanding of the issue (note that worldly understanding is a minority part of the formula). Without faith, the truth can stare us in the face without us gaining anything from it. I wasn't interested in arguing the point. I have, however, argued that a literalistic understanding of scripture (I was talking about Nephi slaying Laban in the Book of Mormon) is beneficial if it is the true interpretation of what happened (i.e., nothing is to be gained from believing Joshua was acting under divine commandment when he razed Jericho unless Joshua was, in fact, acting under divine commandment). The scriptures are one of the greatest tools for a mortal to come to understand God- interpreting them falsely harms our understanding of God (and therefore our eternal progression). Be that as it may, your OP can be easily mis-interpreted by another person as an argument for interpreting the Bible "wholly allegorically".In point of fact, once one begins to say "event A in the Bible is false because [enter reason here]" without divine authority, one treads into the dark mists of doubt and uncertainty. From there, the only way back to certainty is by following the iron rod of faith in what is true (which is why it's important to interpret the scriptures correctly- which for the Bible is a mixture of allegory and literlism). There's a reason the Book of Mormon was restored- history and time have clouded man's understanding of the Bible, and modern ethical mores and misconceptions of God's nature have not helped the situation.

This isn't puppy love... This is puppy infatuation. HUUUUUUUGE difference. Oh, and I haven't received a restraining order yet! Things are looking up!

I win! A free month of membership! I'm so thrilled! Although I'd be content with a consolation prize of a job, if someone posts after me.

I've been busy job hunting, haven't been on for the past 3-4 days. Although I've repented and have caught up with the thread.

QFT. A person's most basic woldview determines their entire existence.

Here's the deal: I'm looking to increase my post-to-thanks ratio (not the amount of posts that I am thanked for, but the amount of posts I thank others for). So, post something nice about someone else and I will thank you for it! It can be something nice about anyone or anything... Just keep it nice-esque.

So here's the deal. I'm writing this because I want you all to share in my pain and help me through this crisis. And I'm bored. But mostly the pain thing. Anyway, I met this awesome girl about 5 years ago. We'll call her Megan for the sake of ease ("Megan" is so much easier than "that girl I like"). I only knew her for a couple of months, but she had a MAJOR impact on me (like, completely profound. I can't give all the details, but vision-from-heaven type profound). I moved away from Colorado (where I lived), and have lived out of state since then. At the beginning of the summer, I decided to move back to Colorado. I was so excited to see her again! I would sweep in and dazzle her with my charms and knowledge of... stuff. So THEN I find out that she's going to study abroad in Russia- for 10 MONTHS!! She's already there, studying the Russian language this semester. So now I have to wait longer to meet her... I cried when I found out. So now I'm sad. But she still talks to me on Facebook! I just received a message from her, and I felt so glad that I did a little dance! Anyway... I know this is random, but I'm really missing her tonight (I know... how dumb is it to miss someone you haven't seen for 5 years and barely know? It's... hard to explain.) so I thought I'd post about it. I'm bored and emotional, and the two are NOT a good combination. So, here's a poem just for her, although I know she'll never read it (thank goodness!): With your curly black hair, I think you are pretty. My arms long to hold you close, and my lips long to touch your cheek. How weird is it that I write poetry about you? Please don't file a restraining order. :confused:

I was in my 7th grade homeroom when I first heard that the Pentagon had been hit from a friend of mine. 5 minutes later one of my teachers announced that a plane had hit the first tower. Lessee... I think that's the only major event I've been alive for, I think. I feel young next to you old fogies.

Rider- You can run in this circle all you want without getting answers. Everything in this conversation- everything- depends on where a person stands before God, and the situation they were given in this life. To understand why the LDS believe that non-Mormons can still be followers of Christ without being Mormon requires a deeper understanding of the Atonement of Christ, the nature of God, and more complex LDS doctrine. The simple answer is that Christ honors all honest seekers of truth, regardless of their personal situations. Man is an eternal being, of the same divine species of God. We have all fallen short through weakness and sin, but through Christ's atonement we can be perfected and become co-inheritors with Christ, who will receive all that the Father has. Through faith in Christ, we can become like him and be returned to holy righteousness. That is the Gospel; that is the path and the doctrine that Christ taught. I'm not inclined to answer your examples where others believe my faith teaches things contrary to the Bible, other than a terse "we'll see who is right at the judgment bar of God". On that day, my hope is that they and I will be on the right hand of Christ, and not on His left. I do not dictate others' actions, however- I am the captain of my own soul, and only mine. Consider these questions: is a man attempts to serve his master with all diligence, but through the servant's own weakness and the wekness of others, does not receive and follow all of his master's instructions, is he therefore no longer a servant of his master? Will a perfect and merciful master disown the servant who seeks to do the master's will- or will a perfect and merciful master understand the situation and the weakness of the servant and show patience and charity? Will the master cast the servant off, not paying the servant for his work, until the servant is able to overcome his own weaknesses? If the master does not pay the servant, how will the servant survive to become more perfect at following the master's commands? If you say that a perfect and merciful master will cast out an obedient yet imperfect servant, then you say that Christ does not honor those who seek to do His will but do it imperfectly. If you say that the perfect and merciful master will show patience to the servant, then you say that Christ honors those who honor Him as well as they can- no matter their religion.

Snow, you have drummed out the problems of Biblical (and scriptural) literalism for so long with the same results... Negativity, contention, and a lack of productivity. What's the point in bringing it up again- do you just like to fight? You're going to persuade no one, no one will be persuaded by you, the same old arguments will be rehashed... Maybe you can just post a thread listing all the crazy Bible stories that you believe shouldn't be taken literally, and explain why you think they're in the Bible (the story is allegorical or completely made up, etc.)? I seriously wonder what the point of this thread is, other than another shot at Biblical literalism. One problem I have with your OP is that you seem to divide people into two camps: those who see the Bible as wholly literal and those who see it as wholly allegorical. There's spiritual danger in BOTH camps, yet you extol the virtues of non-literalism and decry literalism as horrible. Perhaps there's a point to this thread other than "the Bible's not to be taken literally because there are no benefits to it"?

I get that definition from what I feel to be the truth, testified by the scriptures: that a Christian is one who follows Christ. We can argue about labels all day long, but that's useless bickering about semantics.A man serves the master whom he actively serves. Therefore, if a man- in his heart of hearts- seeks to serve Christ and eternal principles of godliness, that man serves Christ. He is therefore called by the name of his master and is thus a Christian. Ummmm... Random question. Unless this is somehow what you believe the LDS Church is doing- despite many evidences to the contrary.I would say to that person, "How do you know my gospel is incomplete? Have you asked God? I have, and He tells me that my gospel is His approved Gospel." It's hard to argue with what God tells a person. I'm still not convinced that you're not a troll. People looking for answers usually acknowledge parts they agree with (or at least understand), not simply ask questions that lead to an unkown destination. To be honest, you seem like someone who has a bone to pick with the Mormon Church because you feel that we're saying the gospel you believe in is incomplete and, therefore, you are not a real Christian. The first is a valid tenent of Mormonism. The second is not.

At first, I thought candied bacon ice cream sounded disgusting. But then I remembered that I like bacon with maple syrup... So I don't know.

Wow... Well, it's definitely possible. While a normal psych evaluation can't hurt, if I were your friend I'd never mention that I could see spirits to the evaluator until the evaluation was done and the results were in. That way, such a big claim wouldn't bias the final decision. Assuming it's a problem with bad spirits coming into a home- perhaps it's time to get out of her parents' house? That's not a solution to the problem of seeing evil spirits, but if there's a particularly bad one that keeps coming back, getting out might be a good idea. Do you know if her home life (other than the spirits) is funcional? Any serious problems that go on there? Getting advice from a bishop is DEFINITELY good advice. Priesthood authority trumps all the various powers of Satan and his minions. A blessing would be great as well. I agree that blessing the home would do little if any good, but a personal blessing for her would go a long way. Finally, there's the question of her own stance before the Lord. If she's commanding the spirits to depart, then I'm assuming she is seeking after the righteousness of the Lord. However, there may be something from her past or present that's bothering her and hindering her forward movement- thus the attraction of the evil spirit. The ultimate formula for spiritual safety is personal righteousness + priesthood power + faith in Christ. As long as she's doing all she can to involve all those parameters, then she should be able to receive strength and comfort to overcome this.

I'll let you prove that you're not a troll.Our position makes sense to me because the title of "Christian" is not reserved only for those who are doctinrally correct. Christ calls His sheep out of the world through His own miraculous means- thus, He can call us no matter our religious or socioeconomic circumstances. Therefore, one can serve Christ without knowing it, because they recognize the timbre and tone of the shepherd's voice (that is, they recognize the eternal principles of real goodness when they come into contact with them). Therefore, the title of "Christian" (real, true Christians) is not restricted to those who are priveleged to receive His Gospel in this life. Therefore, one can be a Christian and not belong to the LDS Church. Also, there are different "degrees" of Chrstian-dom, meaning that each person differs in their personal devotion to Christ. In my belief, it makes sense to say one person is "more" Christian than another based on his/her level of faith (however, I don't judge such things now, as it's impossible for me to know another's level of faith). That's how my position makes sense to me. It also makes more sense with an all-knowing and loving God being in charge of the world than the belief that the only Christians are the ones who have all the doctrinal nuances correct. If you're not a troll, you'll admit that this doesn't make sense to you but you accept it as my reasoning; you'll admit that it makes sense; or you'll be confused and ask for clarification before deciding whether or not what I say makes sense.

Oh boy... If I had to choose one BAND, it would probably be Owl City. I just heard them for the first time recently, and I LOVE their happy-go-lucky-with-a-touch-of-somber-reality cleanliness. And I find the wordplay in their lyrics hilarious! I'd also love to be able to listen to most of the music done by my two favorite singers, Brian Stokes Mitchell and Anthony Warlow (both musical/opera). I wouldn't mind being able to listen to Pavarotti (in English!) whenever I wanted to, as well.

I'm not familiar with either Whitmer's account or the text of the recorded revelation, but from the outside looking in we seem to have the following situation: -Two differeng accounts of the same event. -One account is written according to one man's memory in a publication where he sought to discredit the man who produced the revelation. -The other account is (I'm assuming) hand-written fairly close to the time it was given by one seeking to record it for the records of an organization, and possibly for publication. Which would probably be more accurate?

He did answer! What a pleasant and gratifying surprise. Rider: You'll have to solve your question on your own. Asking us why our position doesn't make sense to you is an exercise in futility. You know our feelings on the matter. To everyone else: This anouncement courtesy of the Prevention of Troll Feeding Society: Don't feed the trolls! They will leave on their own if not fed. In the case that the suspected troll is not a troll but a troubled soul, not feeding them will allow them to reorient themselves and gather their faculties and try again in a more peaceful way. Thank you, and remember:

I support California's efforts to ban big-screen TV's. It's the first real action taken to combat this insidious plague of "Haveabigtv-itis". Haveabigtv-itis preys on the weak and the poor: did you know that roughly one in every four poor people are afflicted with this condition?! I applaud California's efforts to combat this monstrous epidemic (thankfully it hasn't spread to other parts of the world yet- luckily, most of the poor in Africa don't even have small televisions. Thank goodness!). There is literally NO other thing that the Californian government could be doing that is quite as important as helping to fix the energy crisis by combatting this dangerous disease. I also support the current administration.

Do you think he will?Probably not, no. But it would be nice.

Do you think he will?

Rider, please show that you've read post #95 by responding to it.

Some of the Bible is literal. Some is allegorical. Deciding which is which is an exercise in futility without additional information. That's why God restored His Church when the Earth was prepared for it. Deciding that Biblical stories are either all literal or all allegorical is dangerous and faulty, as is a premise that 'anything that doesn't make sense to me couldn't have actually happened' is dangerous as well. Can we avoid another "A-and-B-and-C-didn't-happen-because-the-idea-is-absurd-and/or-doesn't-jive-with-my-personal-ideas-of-what-God-is-like" thread? Those are nothing but eyesores and bring the entire forum down (at least, all the participants).

Rider, Mormons believe that non-Mormons can be Christians. You can decide that that belief is silly or illogical if you want, but that's what we believe. That. Is. Your. Answer. Have a nice day.

Rider, according to your stringent definitions of "Christian", you exclude everyone except those who are doctrinally correct from being Christians. Therefore, according to YOUR definition, it is impossible for both Mormons and non-Mormons to be Christians. According to YOUR definition, the path of Christian discipleship is closed to all except those who are lucky enough to have the full truth. According to OUR definitions and theology, Christians are those who truly seek to follow the will of Christ and walk in His footsteps- whatever religion or denomination they belong to. Mormons do not seek to disclude others as Christians. YOU'RE the one who's trying to disclude others from being Christians, not the Mormons or Elder Wirthlin. If you can't see this, you need to re-evaluate your position and go before God in humble prayer. You've become one who seeks to make others an "offender for a word" (Isaiah 29:21), whether you mean to or not. Either accept as truth the multiple witnesses that testify that the Mormons do not seek to claim others as non-Christian, or accept the eternal punishments of refusing to accept the truth from your well-meaning brothers and sisters.

I've been wondering about the OP's question this year, too. It seems there are two generalized camps of halloween costumers: those who see Halloween as an oppurtunity to push the envelope in regards of sexuality, morbidity, obscenity, etc., and those who see it as an opurtunity to honestly display their creativity. Like most things in life, I'd wager that one camp is inspired of Satan and the other of God. But, I digress... I think the answer has already been stated: we can use Halloween as an excuse to reveal our deeper/deepest desires. For those who haven't had their carnal nature changed through the Atonement and whose behavior isn't dictated by higher moral codes, that means they dress up to inspire lust, fear, or shocked awe in others (to create an attention-getting sensation) for a variety of reasons. For others, it could mean visually displaying part of their personality and being- like dressing up as a polynomial (which sounds like an AWESOME idea, btw). One other aspect of Halloween that might reveal our inner nature might be the fascination with the Occult and sorcery. I'm not going to rant about how Harry Potter is evil (I bought all 7 books, thank you very much) but I think we'd be hard pressed to find a witch or user of magic that was good and godly "back in the day". It seems the origin of many things that have become "kiddified" (faries, for example) were actually malevolent or downright evil in their earliest (recorded) incarnations. So, what do we do with the cultural fascination with the supernatural? Do we delve into the side of evil witches and banshees that reak havoc on God's children, or do we prefer to believe in the supernatural as positive and happy (the "kiddified" version)? Or do we prefer to avoid such things altogether? The answer probably tells a lot about us, as well. For the record, I'm tempted to copy Jim from 'The Office' and dress up as 3-Hole Punch Maxel. Or just don a nametag.