Maxel

The warm fuzzy feeling we get for "helping" the poor.

There's not a bottom line that I'm aiming to reach. I posted in support of your OP, that it's knowing the truth that matters, not believing what makes us feel better about life and ourselves.As far as what makes Mormons different from 'other religion A'- the simple difference is that either the Mormons are right, 'other religion A' is right, or both are wrong. Faith only benefits us if said faith is in something that is true- hence the importance of an unyielding search for the real truth, whatever that truth maybe. As far as proving via the scientific method that the Mormon faith is true- such is impossible. The plan of God is that we're not presented with enough evidence to prove the truth to a fallen mind through scientific means. Mostly, I wanted to post in support of your OP, Snow, since we're rarely on the same side of these kinds of issues. There's no bottom line I'm going for here.

I don't have time to watch this now, and I don't know much about Alex Jones (I've heard his name somewhere before...). But I did want to lend my support to the idea that there is some sort of international conspiracy in motion with the goal of overthrowing individiual national sovereignties, including (perhaps especially) the United States'. That much is recorded in the scriptures. It makes sense that such a conspiracy would have one or more major corporate entities to provide revenue and position. It would make sense that such a conspiracy would have cunning men at its head who would seek to lead us to global government through a multi-faceted attack aimed at the principles embodied in the Constitution and the eternal principles of God by paying lip-service to them while undermining them with actions. Whether Obama is in said conspiracy or not, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised either way, honestly.

I don't know if it's true that, on average, people become more conservative with age, but I agree with CofCcousin's assessment of the younger generation of voters. Most of my highschool friends on Facebook are at least moderate and many support same-sex marriage- and 95% of them were the 'good' Christian kids in school (also, most of them are hesitant to actually list "Christian" as their religion, preferring instead to say something along the lines of "I believe in the Bible" or "I believe in Christ, but there's a difference between religion and belief" or something similar). Sadly, I do think we'll soon see the day when same-sex marriage is legalized in many of the states through popular vote. However, there may be a push for the Federal government to legalize it and ban any 'discriminatory' law or practice. Listening to the NPR story on the outcome in Maine, I remember one prominent gay rights activist (I forget names) quoted as saying that they needed to go to the Federal Government because trying to enact change at the state level wasn't working. What was it the Book of Mormon said? "[T]he foundation of the destruction of this people is beginning to be laid by the unrighteousness of your lawyers and your judges"?

Goodness is great. One problem I see with holding up 'goodness' as a virtue is that it's too ambiguous. In my experience, to 'be good' can mean either to be proficient or to have a set of qualities that one finds desirable. In the former sense, one can 'be good' at robbing banks. Oftentimes, what is meant by the latter definition of 'good' is actually another word for 'virtuous', which is also ambiguous but includes such ideas as 'chastity', 'thriftiness', 'kindness', 'temperance', and more. One other problem- and IMHO, the biggest problem- is that the common concept of 'goodness' is, when compared to what is righteous (the eternal nature and aspects of God), inferior. In that sense, goodness < righteousness. If we differentiate between the two, 'goodness' can be good intentions and good attempts with failed and evil results. However, 'righteousness' implies 'wholeness', and means that the outcome and the intentions of a 'righteous' action are 'good' (meaning 'in line with the eternal plan of God'). 'Good' intentions and 'good' actions can't keep the world afloat or the planets in their alignments- that requires righteousness. However, the concept of 'goodness' can act as a unifier for those who have little else in common besides theologies that hold goodness as desireable. Also, when understood properly, 'goodness' (as Moksha defined it, that which "stems from the love of God to Man") is incoporated in the concept of 'righteousness' and is a desireable and godly trait.

Continue to be watchful and vigilant, Dude989. Gathering together supplies and loved ones is, methinks, a wise plan. I don't know much about the signs of the times other than the general "the world will be covered in wickedness". Through the advent of the internet, advanced communications technologies, and especially the vast social networking and social media, ideas have been able to spread much more rapidly than before. While this is good- the Gospel message can be spread much more rapidly than before!- it also allows for the spreading of wickedness. Dark practices and ideas are now available for any wayward child to peruse. What used to be acceptable only in seedy, dark alleyways are now plastered on billboards on the roadside. One thing that is scary is the movement towards a one world government (WARNING: crazy conspiracy theory ahead!), an event prophesied in the Book of Revelation. Trends towards socialism and transnational law and policy speed up this transition, as does the global economic crisis and the weakening of the dollar. We can see it in calls for a global currency and international global warming regulations. While it's true that much of the world has been wicked in the past, and there have always been natural disasters, these things have become more prevalent as time has gone on. There's also the positive signs of the times- the gathering and restoration of Israel (begun by the publishing of the Book of Mormon and the formation of the Church), restoration of the Priesthood and the sealing keys, and more! These are exciting times to live in.

Going back to the original point of the thread- I like the idea of trying to understand the truth of things for the sake of knowing what is real, as opposed to believing a lie that makes us feel good, whatever that lie is (even lies about God's nature or His plan for us). The remark that Snow quoted resonates well with me, too. I think that's a tenet of our faith- believing in things that are true, because they are true. Knowing the truth brings comfort only if we abide by eternal principles- nothing is more hard then knowing what is right and doing that which is wrong. Ultimately, faith is only rewarded if we have faith in that which is true- as Paul said, if our faith in Christ is misplaced, then we as believers are the most miserable of all men. Therefore, we ought to be concerned with finding the eternal principles of truth and applying them to our lives- it should become one of the consuming pursuits of our lives. As Moses said to Satan: "I will not cease to call upon God, I have other things to inquire of him".

Interesting train of thought, Traveler. As Christ was a resurrected being during the 40 days, anything He taught the Apostles would be considered direct revelation from a glorified being. Perhaps this is analogous to the way members nowadays learn doctrine like this- through direct revelation from the Holy Ghost or ministering angels.

If Christ's death was enough to create massive natural disasters on the other side of the globe, why wasn't the Old World utterly destroyed?Besides that, this explanation seems to imply that Christ lost some degree of control, as it were, over the elements when He died. If that's the case, why were the righteous the ones who were spared? 3 Nephi 9:13 clearly states that those who survived the calamities were spared because they were more righteous than the ones who were killed. So, did God lose all control, or just part? If He didn't lose all control, why would He allow innocent infants to be killed along with the wicked (we can assume that there were children under the age of accountability in the destroyed cities)? Also, if Christ were the animating force of the Earth, what about when He was an infant Himself, still growing and maturing? Did His intellectual and physical maturity have no bearing on the "animating force of his omnipotence intertwined with all matter", but His death did? This explanation seems to have too many holes.

I got braces while I was younger (and THANK GOODNESS, because my teeth were horrible crooked beforehand...), and when I'm at a better place in life I'll be working out every day. I've never cared much about having a good tan, but I go into the sun enough to avoid being a pasty white boy. As far as my opinions on others' looks- I haven't travelled much. I find that much of the concept of beauty in America revolves around sexuality- even otherwise conservative girls can be seen sporting too-tight and too-revealing clothing, and guys are often seen wearing symbols of darkness or irreverence. Personally, I think that beauty is found in dressing modestly and grooming neatly. People who take good care of their bodies, be they heavyset or thin, and who wear modest clothing are always more attractive than those who go to extremes.

I'm already a menace to society... Mwahaha.

Hey, I'm not THAT creepy. Not QUITE that creepy. Maybe a little creepy... I guess starting a forum post about pining away for a girl you barely know is kinda stalker-ish, eh? Don't any of you DARE tell her about this! lol... Man, I'm tired. That was a good poem, Vort. I'll be sure to save it for posterity.

So, would it be fair to say that facebook is another tool we can use either for ill or for good? (In this context, for the detriment or improving of our work lives)? The emergent social media has reminded me of the prophecy of old that says all our hidden works would be shouted from the rooftops.

When the nations of the world try to establish a world government as foretold in the Bible, jadams, be sure to issue apologies to everyone who was keeping track of current events and raising warning voices. :)

I tried golf once. I was horrible at it (although I DID once make a hole-in-one on a miniature golf course!).

Add me to the "gullible" list- I didn't get it until I saw BenRaines' reply (and I was wondering WHY so many people laughed at such a serious matter...). Very good, Vort! I showed this to my little sister, who also thought it was very funny (and she doesn't think a lot is funny). I LOL'd as well.

Big Government has always been the adversary's response to the family and community. Thanks for pointing that out, tefor.

I've heard this observation many other places before. I think there's truth to it- see my explanation about how I think the Gift of the Holy Ghost is involved. From what you've shared, Vort, I'd probably agree with the latter explanation. I can imagine a show of emotion at a time like you described as a means of the Holy Ghost witnessing to the audience about the severity and deep meaning of the situation. Ultimately, I think this serves to turn our hearts to God- which is the purpose of prayer. It's all about degrees, methinks, and understanding the proper "times and seasons" for everything. I like to contrast Christ's chasing of the moneychangers from the temple with His tender shows of mercy for the downtrodden and His example of crying mourning with those who mourned, and crying because of the sadness He felt. I think the key is putting off the world's opinions on the matter and searching the Scriptures and the Spirit of God to find out when it's appropriate to cry, and when it's appropriate to put one's foot down and act. You're missing out, my friend.

At times, yes. Just as there's a time to pray in private and pray in public, I think there's times to show strong emotion in private as well as in public. I think that one of those appropriate times IS during prayer. As long as we fight off the urge to stop the forward momentum of what we're doing and indulge in nothing but a display of emotion, it's not detrimental or detracting to the presentation.

Regarding showing emotion when it's appropriate- Overt expressions of emotion aren't always the best or appropriate thing to express. However, it's also harmful to not show emotion when it's not inappropriate to do so. Regarding Glenn Beck's crying- he really doesn't cry on air that often. And when he does, it's when he's speaking on a topic that he's very passionate (and often worried) about. When we're discussing those topics, I think it's not inappropriate to get emotional here and there.

Jesus wept, both because of his own anguish and the anguish experienced by those he loved. The Father weeps for the plight of His children. I think the truth is that the Gift of the Holy Ghost opens the human spirit to the things of God- which are so powerful and true that, when witnessed of, brings a firm resolution and often tears. Crying's not a bad thing- especially when contrasted against the stereotypical, emotionally dead "macho-man" that some men seem to idolize.

Moksha: The moral of the story is that throwing money at the poor won't fix their problems. It hasn't when America has tried it in the past, and it won't in this latest incarnation of nationalized healthcare. However, many of us haven't learned the lessons the past has to teach us.

Nah, I'll keep my man card. I've learned, through a year of having my roommates trying to revoke it, that if you stand up for your actions then it can't get taken away. The woman I finally marry will love my corny poems!! And she won't file restraining orders!! (Hopefully.)

SWEET!!Oh wait, now I'm winning again... This is a hard game.

Pam: It was brought to my attention a few months ago that I thanked others for their posts more often than I posted. When I began this thread, I set out to accentuate that unique aspect of my forum life, and hopefully reach a 2-3 post-to-thanks ratio (that is, I thank 3 others for their posts for ever 2 posts of mine). Some may argue that this makes my thanks less meaningful. I say that I am merely a thankful person and that, just as one gets more skilled by doing an action, by thanking more people I actually INCREASE the inherent weight of each and every one of the "thanks" I give out. Mostly, I was bored and wanted an excuse to do something silly. This and the "Russian Princess" thread was the answer to my problems. (I'm not looking to increase how many of my OWN posts I've been thanked in, but to increase how many of OTHERS' posts that I have thanked.)