RipplecutBuddha

clearly the fox needs to attend hunter's safety classes.....or maybe teach them....hmmm

look at nature. When life produces offspring, that offspring carries within itself the potential to become as the parent is. It's something so blatantly obvious we often miss it. Now for some questions...are we part of the nature of the earth? When we produce offspring, do they also carry within them the potential to become as we are? Do we posess the potential to become as our parents are? Is God really our Father? If so, what does that mean for us? Why is it so much of a stretch to imagine we can become as he is? Have we forgotten the promise that we can become "Heirs, heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ if....we suffer with him...that we may also be glorified together." ? What about Revelations 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I am sat down in the throne of my Father." This last one...if Christ is the one speaking, then we can have no doubt, for he makes the most plain promise in the most direct language I know. He recieved his inheritance, and he has promised to share the same with us....if we overcome.

The plagarism theory doesn't work because it's not true. Truth does not change. Either he did plagarize, or he did not. Time will not change the truth of it. The Book of Mormon is perhaps one of the most severely scrutinized books in all of the history of human writing. It's not even 200 years past Joseph's translation, and despite all the effort to reveal the fraud of the book, no fraud has been discovered. This is significant because we know more about the process of the translation (writing, for the non-believers) of the Book of Mormon than any other religious text in human history. The people involved are almost all known and named. The time it took...how those involved claimed it took place....and on and on. Yet with all this information, and all this time to examine it in detail, there is no other plausible theory as to how Joseph Smith could have created such a text in one draft over such a short period of time without the assistance of divine power and guidance. There are things in the Book of Mormon that nobody knew prior to Joseph's death...how did they get in there? Lucky guesses? There are writing styles not belonging to anyone around Joseph in the Book of Mormon. Strong argument for plagarism at first, but every time a proposed source text is provided, the writing style in the source text fails to find a match in the Book of Mormon...no go there either. None of this is proof of divine inspiration, but eventually the honest seeker of truth will gather enough unanswerd questions that will lead him/her to bring the case before God, which is where the Book of Mormon states the case ought to be tried in the first place.

Continuing revelation It's an interesting concept, and not one looked at specifically at this point in the thread. It's been a part of the discussion, but let me focus on it directly. The OT is the word of God. The NT is also the word of God and, where applicable, overrules the standards and conditions found in the OT. Same with the Book of Mormon, D&C, and PoGP. Each adds further clarification upon God's word. Starting with Joseph Smith, revelation from God resumed, and Joseph's declarations as a prophet of God trumped the Bibe and Book of Mormon. Why? Because God spoke with him directly. Each living prophet picks up where his predecessor ends. At the time of the ban, it was the will of God that it be in place. This much the Spirit has confirmed to me quite a while ago. God has his reasons, and he does not answer to us for his decisions. In time we will know why, and God is eager for that time to arrive, but it's our job to get there, not His; he's already there waiting. In 1978, the time had come for a living prophet to overrule one of his predecessors and lift the ban. Again, God is in charge and that is as it should be. Even now, with the more stringent rules concerning qualifying to serve a mission, President Monson has overruled his predecessors and said the standards must be higher. Again, the reasons are known to God and are for us to discover through faith, prayer, and honest study of the truth. Was it wrong? The ban? Back in that era, likely not because it was a cultural mindset common throughout the country. From our perspective it is offensive, and for good reason; we know better now. Just remember this, go back far enough and instead of a sacrament meeting, in order to renew a covenant with God, you had to build an alter yourself, then kill an animal....my how times change, eh? The priesthood could only be held by Levites at one point, and before that, holding the priesthood was an even more rare honor and duty. It's a wonder to me to this day how many priesthood holders are alive on the earth at the same time.

1. It's a sin against God. God has given us commandments, and the consequences for each are a good sign of how serious it is when you break one of them. Also what is required to make full and complete restitution establishes how serious it is. In my observation, God is most concerned with how we come into this life, and how we leave it. Why? look at how serious both areas are by using the two elements I mentioned above. In the Law of Moses, murder and sexual sin were both punished by death. Why are they such a big deal? Because full recompense is impossible to complete. With murder you cannot restore one to life. What you have taken by your own power cannot be returned by your own power. Now imagine all the varieties of sexual sin. Name one of them you would be able to fully repent of and give full recompense. This leads to the second point I have. 2. It's a sin against yourself. God has given us a precious gift by way of our capacity to procreate. I have often heard it described as a gift from God to share in the creative process He initiated as stated in Genesis. The enjoyment we recieve from sex as married couples is part of the gift, but not the main point. The main point is to use this most precious gift from God to further His will. Pornography totally steps aside from the main point and focuses on the pleasure only. It uses an intentional part of the gift to make you forget about the whole purpose of our having it, and also to forget about God. All pornography does is make you focus on you...what you like to see, what you like to feel, what you like to fantasize about. There is no room for selfishness in God's will, yet there is little room for anything else in pornography. By doing this, pornography not only dulls you sexually, it dulls you spiritually. It fills your mind with images that are next to impossible to remove. With such images in your mind, how can you think on spiritual things? How can you give room for the Holy Ghost to speak in your heart and soul when your heart and soul are thinking about Ms. May? This brings me to my third, and final point. 2. It is a sin against women in general...all of whom are your spiritual sisters. Think about it....when God commanded Samuel to find a king to replace the disobedient Saul, what was the great lesson? God looks not on the appearance for his elect, but on the heart. What does pornography do? Exactly the opposite. Name someone who reads Playboy for the model's chicken dinner recipies, or what their major is in college. Pornography focuses your attention on the looks, and nothing but the looks. Think about this...an entire industry built to draw people's attention to the absolute least important quality a person could ever have in this life from God's perspective. It makes women nothing more than objects of personal gratification. Indulged in long enough, and a constant consumer of pornography will be unable to see any women in any other way than how 'hot' they are. It is the ultimate degradation, the final insult to God's very daughters. The only other way to look at this is to ask the question, what good does pornography do for anyone that they could not have gotten through other means? I cannot think of any, regardless of which side a given person is on, consumer or producer. There is nothing positive about it, nor is there anything 'healthy' about it in any way. It is a perversion of the single greatest responsability God has ever placed in our hands; bringing our fellow brothers and sisters into this life, and teaching them how to live according to the will of a God they have no memory of. Posts following mine have reminded me that pornography impacts men and women in the same way. While I am aware of this, I presented the issue from my perspective, and I'm a guy. I'm not going to go back through my whole post to say men/women repeatedly. I hope we can all treat this small fact as an assumed one.

No worries from me, and believe me when I say you'll know when people start thinking that of you. You won't have to ask. From my perspective, you're asking some great quesitons and engaging in serious and respectful debate. A refreshing change from my own past experiences.

wow....now the non-athletic angle....is there no end in sight??? (probably gonna go after the bald crowd next...)

I too have been exploring the anti-Mormon side of things for several years. I was warned frequently of the dangers of doing so, and I took those warnings seriously. For any who want to look themselves, I repeat the warning that to do so with any amount of safety, you must pray constantly, and consistently for the presence of the Spirit while doing so. Some conclusions I have reached from my studies are as follows. 1. The lion's share of the anti's message comes from arguments that began while Joseph Smith was still alive. None of them have gained any legitimate traction or progress since that time. Further, the answers that have been given in response to them have not lost any traction or validity. If you come across an issue you cannot answer, rest assured, the answer has been found and rehearsed several times already. Ask for God's help in finding the answer, and he will guide you to it. 2. While not all anti's are former Mormons, the most venomous that I have encountered claim to have been members before. Since there's no realistic way to fact check their claims, one may take them as they choose. Either way, they have their reward. 3. Once someone gets to know the average member of the LDS church such as a classmate, neighbor, or co-worker, they never have anything bad to say about us. Ever. This leads me to the following conclusions a. Our personal example is vital to the combat of the anti's message. As we walk in harmony with what we believe, those observing us will see the truth for themselves. Actions speak far louder than any words. b. No bold anti-Mormon I have spoken with has been immediately willing to check us out in real life. They don't think they know any Mormons, and they don't want to meet any. They don't want to read the BoM, nor do they want to attend sunday services....not even once. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. c. They probably know a few Mormons that haven't been vocal about their faith, and thus escape detection. There's a characiature of what a Mormon is supposed to be like within the anti community, and when we don't fit into that mold, ie. when we're just being ourselves, they don't see us as they expect to. So, what to take from all of this.... 1. We can, and need to, maintain our testimonies of what we know is true with all the energies of our souls. The battle is not getting easier by any means. 2. We don't need to be perfect in our examples to non-members. We simply need to be honest examples, sincere in our desires, faith, and love for others. Remember that it's how we act that tells others what is important to us far and above what we say. 3. The anti's questions, claims, assupmtions, and lies have no foundation. They are very much a part of the great and spacious building seen in Lehi's dream, and when they fall, their fall will also be great. 4. When the trials of faith come, and they do for all of us, lean unto Christ for your strength. Pray to Him for all your needs and He will answer you every time. Don't fear when you are left to say "I don't know." Follow that statement with "But I know where to find the answer." 5. The world is filled with wonderful non-members. Don't ever forget that. The Anti-Mormon crowd is a desperate minority, and they likely will remain that way as long as we continue to demonstrate the truth of what we believe. If someone has honest questions, seek to answer them as best you can. If you feel contention despite your attempts at a peaceful dialouge, extract yourself from the discussion. The Gospel of Christ was never intended to be something to be fought over, much less to be used as a weapon against others. People will reject the truth. It is their choice, and we must allow them that choice just as we seek to be allowed our choice. It will be painful, but God has given us all the gift of agency and none has the right to encroach on that gift. *steps off of the soap box* All the best, with respect RCB

Wow. I never knew so many people were so accomplished at advanced hair-splitting, much less at the expense of the larger point of the thread. Such thin skins these days....tsk, tsk, tsk.......

Sin, according to my belief, is anything that we are, we do, think, or desire that prevents us from being worthy of standing in the presence of God. Our very mortality prevents us from that, as our bodies are corruptible, or capable of imperfection. As no unclean thing can withstand the presence of the Father, even if we were otherwise sinless, we could not meet the standard without God's influence or help. Christ himself had to be resurrected with a perfect immortal body before he could present himself to God the Father. So crucial was his state that he could not allow Mary to touch him, nor any other mortal until the presentation was complete. Only after that did Christ allow himself to be handled by mortals. This very event is proof that no matter how good we are, we cannot bridge the gap ourselves. We need the atonement of Christ in order to overcome ALL sin, or corruption. The OP stated that sin is going against God's will. While this is a correct statement, sometimes I think it helpful in this discussion to ask a question; What precisely is God's will? What are God's plans for us? What are his hopes? What could we do to interfere with them, and why would we do such things? "Adam fell that men might be, and men are that they might have joy." "Behold this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." From these two verses, along with countless others I could quote, it is safe to conclude that God's will for us is something wonderful on a scale quite beyond our comprehension right now. Sin is whatever happens to slow down, stop, or completely derail our progress within that plan. So then, why do we sin? What are the reasons? Why is it so easy to do, and so hard to avoid? And perhaps most significant, Is this important, and why or why not? Too often we catch ourselves wishing God thought like we did, and we want His will to comply to ours. Given what we know versus what He knows....What we want for ourselves versus what He wants for us....Which perspective is the better? Once we truly understand sin for what it is, we will want no part of it in any way. One of the great challenges is gaining that understanding. So great that Nephi prayed for it in the wake of his father's passing. So great that prophets have been calling upon us to rid ourselves of sin at all costs, thus echoing God's will to us directly. Even today in our time the message has not changed. What is in store for the righteous is wonderful beyond imagination. God's will is that we ALL be righteous, to the exclusion of not one of his children. By way of the Atonement we have seen what God is willing to do in order for us to obtain Eternal Life. We have seen what Christ himself is willing to do. The only question remaining is this; What are we willing to do?

I answer the question honestly; "I don't know right now, but I hope to be everything God expects me to be." The fact is that the bible is transparenlty clear on what our future holds for us after this life. If you read all of John 17 it's practically laid out for us. Add to that the fact that whenever life produces offspring, that offspring has the potential within itself to become as the parent is, then the conclusion is also rather clear. In conclusion I also like to reference Revelations 3:21 regarding this issue. Hard to get around that verse, especially for us mormons, as Joseph Smith stated that the verse as it stands in the KJV is "an altogether correct translation."

Great, just great....Now my best friend Charlie is offended that you assume a cookie is one of his angels. He also happens to be a deaf dyslexic computer-using midget attorney for the Amish....you're all in for it now....

I think the whole situation of Mexico should be a sobering one to us. Same with the financial situations in Europe right now. Both are examples of how governments become ineffective and/or harmful to their own nations. Mexico is an example of a weak government unable to adequately enforce its own laws. Europe is an example of how political policies, however well intentioned, can aggressively harm a nation. Here in the US we still are able to address the dangers, but the longer we wait to apply the corrective actions, the worse the repair will appear. How bad does it have to get before we unite as a nation and say "no more of this"? Hopefully this last election is the first step, but I have doubts still. Back to the OP, I sincerely hope the Mexican government asks for help in stabalizing their society. Until they do, all we are left with is to watch the horrors and kick the political football of illegal immigration back and forth.

okay, let me give a brief example or two of what he was getting at. The phrase 'by and by' originally was understood to mean immediately, or very soon. Over time the meaning changed to the exact opposite. Yet again, what we call 'snow' can be accurately labeled as such by that term alone in the english language, yet in the Innuit tongue, there are countless different words used to describe snow according to it's qualities, such as dry, or powdery snow versus heavy wet snow....snow that is falling vertically versus snow that is blowing horizontally, and so on. These changes and differences within lanugages, and across languages always interfere with the ability to understand the complete intent of what is written or spoken. Now, apply all of this to the Bible. A very old book, written in ancient lauguages that have changed over time, just as all languages do. Even the AV english has changed so what we understand from what we read is not always going to be the original message. So....using a concordance, and other biblical studies is helpful, if not essential in maximizing our ability to understand what was originally written...along with sincere prayer as well of course.

I think the biggest door was opened when he {dash} claimed the phrase "well endowed" could be offensive. Now, would someone {besides dash} please stand up and say they're honestly offended by the phrase "well endowed" when referring to the size of a woman's breasts? In all honesty, I cannot think of any person I've met in my life that is offended by that phrase to the point of verbally stating it at all, much less decrying it in public. I think this entire sidetrack is merely a manifestation of how silly the Politically Correct movement/ideology has become. And, for the record, let me paraphrase what Brigham Young had to say about being offended: When a man is offended and no offense is intended, that man is a fool. When a man is offended and offense is intended, that man is also a fool. When bitten by a rattlesnake, a man has two options from which to choose. Either chase after the creature and kill it to prevent it from biting others, or immediatly set about removing the deadly toxins from his body. If he chooses the first option, he may not survive long enough to pursue the second. Now, that was a rather pedantic way of stating it, but rather clear and poetic in my opinion. If it were me, especially regarding this subject, I'd just say it this way: Women's breasts come in all sizes....deal with it. No matter what euphamisim is used to describe the larger side, you {dash} or others who think as you do, will find a way to make it a sexual issue, which it has never been. Let it go, get outside your home, and rejoin the rest of us in a place we call real life. There are far more important issues to deal with as a society than this.

Here's what I get out of all this...Of all the rules and restrictions placed upon missionaries....facial hair is the one people get hung up on? Really? I had facial hair before my mission, and I grew it again after my mission. I had zero problem with being clean shaven during my mission because I accepted it as part of the image the church expects all male missionaries to follow. Of all the sacrifices I had to make to serve a mission, the facial hair was somewhere on the list between paying taxes and dealing with my little sister. Serving a mission is about giving all of yourself to the Lord for his work. It's about learning to be selfless and gaining the ability to focus on the needs of others. I understand that our appearance is something that one person will focus on more than another, but really the whole program is about doing what the Lord wants done. Getting distracted by 'tithes of mint, and anise, and cummin' totally wrecks the perspective the Lord is trying to give us.

The core doctrines and principles that are presently in the Bible have been there from the beginning. I never said the Bible was complete and perfect, as your comment seems to imply. Stated another way, those parts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that are currently in the bible can ususally be found in all versions of the Bible now avialiable. As such, a member choosing to use the NIV or NLT will not see much of a doctrinal difference from that which is found in the KJV.

The notion being discussed obliquely here is that of conseqences for actions. Surely we understand that our actions have consequences. It is a law we are all bound to obey. The verses being discussed merely point out that the very same conditions apply to God the Father as well. His actions have consequences as well, and to the very same extent as ours; good actions have good consequences, and bad actions have bad consequences. This conclusion is reinforced by the notion of Justice. If Justice can be applied to us by God, can we imagine that God himself is immune to Justice? Do we imagine up to ourselves a God that does not live the very commandments we ourselves must obey? The commandments we must follow are those that allow us to become as God is, that is, to become the same type of being he is. Why would God give us commandments that allow us to become as he is if he himself had no need to follow them. The power of the example in the scriptures is belied by the sin being discussed, that of lying. The very act of lying would undo all the power of God were he to commit such a sin. a) God, by definition, must posess the capacity to sin. God has his agency just as we do. b)It is through the excercise of his agency that he is God. Because he always excercises his agency righteously, he has all power and all knowlege. Were he to choose to sin, he would lose his perfection, and thus lose the power and knowlege he has. While it is essential that we understand God posesses the ability to sin, we also must understand how doing so is contrary to the very nature and character of God.

The burden of sin is the heaviest we bear in this life. Sexual sins are especially serious, and for eternally important reasons. Satan would have you feel nothing but guilt and shame for your sins. He would have you feel the weight of them to the extent that you loose hope for yourself. On the other hand, while feeling the consequences of our sins is an essential part of the repentance process, neither Christ nor the bishop would want you to feel it any longer than necessary. Remember the words of Christ himself. "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me for I am meek and lowly of heart and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Confessing our sins to the bishop must happen in some cases, and we will always benefit from doing all we can to rid ourselves of the habits and desires that keep us from approaching Christ in righteousness. The joy that is felt in overcoming sin is immeasurable. Speaking from experience, I cannot compare how good I felt after completing the repentance process to how I felt while struggling with the sin alone. We cannot shoulder our sins alone, nor should we. Only Satan would want us isolated in our sins. Christ is forever extending his arms out to us to remove the burden of sin from us. Let him do what he wants to do for us all. God is doing all he can to bring us back to his presence. Take advantage of his desire for us to return, and do whatever is necessary to be worthy of it. The bishop is not a figure to be feared in the repentance process. Rather, the bishop is the first person you can speak with that will help you put your sins behind you. He's on your side, just as Christ is.

I agree. Too many people consider dating as exclusive as marriage. The purpose of dating is to discover what you like in a companion..not to tie the knot with the very first one you meet. As to the "break his heart and I'll break yours" comment, well, it illustrates my point exactly. Dating is supposed to be fun, relaxing, and an enjoyable way to make friends. Of course there will always be the nervous element of not wanting to look like a tool, but then,that's part of the exitement. (I should know, I was very good at being a tool in my youth...). Let everyone you date know up front that you're not looking for anything serious. As long as you are vocal about keeping your options open (and you should at this point), then nobody has a reason to get upset if you decide you want to keep looking. Just like any other relationship we have, be it with our parents, siblings, or Heavenly Father....open, honest, and constant communication is the most important key to keeping things healthy and happy.

how important is it for a priesthood holder to serve a mission? 8 From Thomas Monson to my own father and younger brother, countless righteous priesthood holders have not served a mission, and for various legitimate reasons. Pres. Monson didn't serve one because he was busy fighting in WWII. My father decided to join the Army. My younger brother decided to marry his highschool sweetheart in the temple. Serving a mission is an important part of the ministry of the church and a difficult thing to be sure, however it is not for everyone. Were I to apply today under the same physical shape I was in when I did go, I would not be accepted. Serving a mission is important, but there are situations where it is not the correct thing. This is why the church has always pulled back from making it mandatory for worthiness consideration. Some people just shouldn't go. How important is it for a young woman to marry a return missionary 3 I say this because of my statement above. If you judge a person strictly through one aspect of their life, whatever that aspect might be, you are not looking at the person as a whole. A relevant question might be asked, Are young men who don't serve a mission worthy to be married to young women of the church? I fear the bias for missionary service as a status symbol in the church is somewhat unavoidable, and I believe it is entirely unjustified.

hmmm...squashed tomatoes....oh, uh...sorry....money, yeah... I'd get my debt settled, buy a decent house (just in case I do get married again...then the nest is ready ), then buy an old school bus, convert it to a heavy truck wrecker, get certified in emergency vehicle recovery, then invest enough money to support me when I do have to quit working. In the meantime, I'd use the heavy wrecker to travel the highways of the USA and give assistance to stranded motorists/accidend scenes for free. Helping people is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done, and it's even better when I have to sacrifice a little in the process. The feeling is unbeatable. Personally spending the remaining money to lift others up wherever I see them would be a very peaceful life to live.

There are over 40 english versions/editions/translations of the Bible currently available. As long as the core doctrines and principles to the Gospel of Jesus Christ are intact, I see no issue with using the version one is comfortable with. Having said that, the church has stayed with the KJV text as the official wording for the bible we use. IMHO, until we need a better version (or until we are worthy of a greater understanding in general as a church), I don't really see the problem with the KJV. "As far as it is translated correctly" is not necessarily the same as saying "As long as it's the right translation".

All the action is here because God knew I'd be coming along....and how humble I'd be about it once I got here....

Be prepared to learn a lot from both experiences. As you focus on the promptings of the Spirit, you will learn things that aren't spoken by anyone.